Check out the NEWEST Summit Pro LS Cams
10-05-2018, 02:12 PM
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Check out the NEWEST Summit Pro LS Cams The new Summit Pro LS cams have been a hit. The lineup was strong to begin with, but you guys chimed in with some great ideas for more new cams. We pride ourselves on listening to our customers and it's resulted in two new Truck Swap cams and three new Turbo grinds.
First, here's what we've done with the Truck Swap lineup.
Since it came out on the 4th of July, the new Summit Stage 1 Pro LS Truck Swap cam has been getting great reviews. It’s a .500 lift drop-in cam with 209/217 duration, 113 lobe separation, and is ground with one degree of advance. It sounds great and tunes easy. It was designed for strong midrange power, but many reported their truck no longer needed to downshift going up medium grades while towing! This helps preserve fuel mileage and we got to thinking? How about a pure Towing/RV cam?!? The result is the new Pro LS stage 1 Drop-in Truck Swap Torque/Efficiency version. The SUM-8718's specs are 205/217 duration with 112 degrees of lobe separation, 2 degrees of advance, and .500 lift. The new cam is designed to have a hint of an idle, won’t require a spring swap, and increases torque everywhere through the RPM range. Versus the normal stage one truck, we removed one degree from intake opening and three degrees from intake closing. The events are -8 IVO, 36 IVC, 42 EVO, and -5 EVC.
Some of the Stage 1 Truck Swap cam owners also said “I love this cam…do you offer a higher lift version?” The answer is yes! The new Stage 1 .550-Lift Truck Swap cam p/n SUM-8719. Some of you guys knew about that one already though and it's now in stock.
Next, some of you asked for a .600 lift Truck cam. What came out of that is a cam so versatile, that it's really three cams in one. It's a High-lift truck cam, it's a Stealth cam, and it's a Turbo cam. You'll see why in a bit. The events are -1 IVO, 43 IVC, 55 EVO, and -2 IVC which results in 222/233 duration, 115 Lobe separation, 5 degrees advance and .600//575 lift. We expect people will be dialing that into a number of different applications with our adjustable timing sets. With minimal overlap, it makes a great a Stealth/Sleeper cam. Finally, we had to settle on a name -so it now serves as our Stage 1 Stealth Turbo cam p/n SUM-8715 ...but you can use it any which way you want.
Now that we had a good Stage 1 and 2 Turbo cams finalized, doing a Stage 3 and 4 made sense. How where they developed? First and most importantly, it was done scientifically. They are designed for T4 hot sides with full length performance exhaust systems. We kept the same intake lobes and cam timing as our Stage 3 and Stage 4 naturally aspirated cams. They too are designed to work with factory intake manifolds, so no reason to tweak those events. Next we went with a milder exhaust lobe to break open easier against cylinder pressure which results in exhaust lift dropping to .575. We kept the exhaust opening events the same as our naturally aspirated cams and we set exhaust closing points to net 2 degrees of overlap to prevent reversion.
The result? The new Stage 3 Pro LS Turbo cam p/n SUM-8716's events are 5 IVO, 46 IVC, 57 EVC, and -3 EVC. This results in 231/234 duration, 115 lobe separation, and 5 degrees of advance. Lift is .600/.575.
Next you'll find something interesting with Turbo Stage 4 that's different than Stages 1,2,3, but it will make sense when you see it.
The Pro LS Stage 4 Turbo cam is p/n SUM-8717. The events are 7 IVO, 50 IVC, 59 EVO and -5 EVC (again to net 2 degrees overlap). The result is 237/234 duration, 117 lobe separation and 5 degrees of advance with .600/.575 lift. This makes it the only reverse-split cam in the lineup and will undoubtedly make some people's heads explode if they don't understand valve events. We're really looking forward to seeing you guys put this one into action.
So there you have it. Summit Racing has taken an already expansive Pro LS lineup of cams and made it even better. We've attached a chart that has the whole lineup in one place with specs and descriptions. Lastly, we also produced a video on the whole lineup. It goes into every part number in the 4 categories (Automotive, Truck Swap, Turbo, and Single Plane), so you may want to skip forward as necessary.
We have a couple more cool things we're announcing next week, so stay tuned! Again, thank you folks for help us grow this lineup.
First, here's what we've done with the Truck Swap lineup.
Since it came out on the 4th of July, the new Summit Stage 1 Pro LS Truck Swap cam has been getting great reviews. It’s a .500 lift drop-in cam with 209/217 duration, 113 lobe separation, and is ground with one degree of advance. It sounds great and tunes easy. It was designed for strong midrange power, but many reported their truck no longer needed to downshift going up medium grades while towing! This helps preserve fuel mileage and we got to thinking? How about a pure Towing/RV cam?!? The result is the new Pro LS stage 1 Drop-in Truck Swap Torque/Efficiency version. The SUM-8718's specs are 205/217 duration with 112 degrees of lobe separation, 2 degrees of advance, and .500 lift. The new cam is designed to have a hint of an idle, won’t require a spring swap, and increases torque everywhere through the RPM range. Versus the normal stage one truck, we removed one degree from intake opening and three degrees from intake closing. The events are -8 IVO, 36 IVC, 42 EVO, and -5 EVC.
Some of the Stage 1 Truck Swap cam owners also said “I love this cam…do you offer a higher lift version?” The answer is yes! The new Stage 1 .550-Lift Truck Swap cam p/n SUM-8719. Some of you guys knew about that one already though and it's now in stock.
Next, some of you asked for a .600 lift Truck cam. What came out of that is a cam so versatile, that it's really three cams in one. It's a High-lift truck cam, it's a Stealth cam, and it's a Turbo cam. You'll see why in a bit. The events are -1 IVO, 43 IVC, 55 EVO, and -2 IVC which results in 222/233 duration, 115 Lobe separation, 5 degrees advance and .600//575 lift. We expect people will be dialing that into a number of different applications with our adjustable timing sets. With minimal overlap, it makes a great a Stealth/Sleeper cam. Finally, we had to settle on a name -so it now serves as our Stage 1 Stealth Turbo cam p/n SUM-8715 ...but you can use it any which way you want.
Now that we had a good Stage 1 and 2 Turbo cams finalized, doing a Stage 3 and 4 made sense. How where they developed? First and most importantly, it was done scientifically. They are designed for T4 hot sides with full length performance exhaust systems. We kept the same intake lobes and cam timing as our Stage 3 and Stage 4 naturally aspirated cams. They too are designed to work with factory intake manifolds, so no reason to tweak those events. Next we went with a milder exhaust lobe to break open easier against cylinder pressure which results in exhaust lift dropping to .575. We kept the exhaust opening events the same as our naturally aspirated cams and we set exhaust closing points to net 2 degrees of overlap to prevent reversion.
The result? The new Stage 3 Pro LS Turbo cam p/n SUM-8716's events are 5 IVO, 46 IVC, 57 EVC, and -3 EVC. This results in 231/234 duration, 115 lobe separation, and 5 degrees of advance. Lift is .600/.575.
Next you'll find something interesting with Turbo Stage 4 that's different than Stages 1,2,3, but it will make sense when you see it.
The Pro LS Stage 4 Turbo cam is p/n SUM-8717. The events are 7 IVO, 50 IVC, 59 EVO and -5 EVC (again to net 2 degrees overlap). The result is 237/234 duration, 117 lobe separation and 5 degrees of advance with .600/.575 lift. This makes it the only reverse-split cam in the lineup and will undoubtedly make some people's heads explode if they don't understand valve events. We're really looking forward to seeing you guys put this one into action.
So there you have it. Summit Racing has taken an already expansive Pro LS lineup of cams and made it even better. We've attached a chart that has the whole lineup in one place with specs and descriptions. Lastly, we also produced a video on the whole lineup. It goes into every part number in the 4 categories (Automotive, Truck Swap, Turbo, and Single Plane), so you may want to skip forward as necessary.
We have a couple more cool things we're announcing next week, so stay tuned! Again, thank you folks for help us grow this lineup.
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Last edited by Summitracing; 10-05-2018 at 02:36 PM.
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unclecowboy (10-07-2023)
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unclecowboy (10-07-2023)
10-08-2018, 08:24 AM
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The Stage 3 could be used with a 3000 stall and the Stage 4 with a 3500 stall, but for track use..it would be better to be at 4000+ in both cases as the cams are generating a lot of torque at 4500. Power peaks will be 6600 and 6800, but both will want the lever pulled another 500 rpm later at the track. We'd like to see the TFS-2500287 springs on the Stage 3 and the Stage 4 could use the TFS-2500300 spring pack.
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unclecowboy (10-07-2023)
10-08-2018, 09:46 AM
#4
More good stuff!
One of the things I am curious about is why you are not recommending your Summit brand spring kits vs the TFS stuff (I believe you folks own TFS)? Most of your line of new cams top out at .600" lift which is the max recommended lift for SME-174003.
I ask because I just bought this Summit kit (on sale) for use with an LXL/LXL lobed Comp cam (.60x"/.60x" lift), and unlike other dual spring kits it shouldn't require shimming to get the proper open pressure which are marketed as .650" or .660" lift capable.
Alternatively, is there any consideration being given to developing:
1. An affordable spring shim kit; and
2. An affordable spring installed height gauge.
One of the things I am curious about is why you are not recommending your Summit brand spring kits vs the TFS stuff (I believe you folks own TFS)? Most of your line of new cams top out at .600" lift which is the max recommended lift for SME-174003.
I ask because I just bought this Summit kit (on sale) for use with an LXL/LXL lobed Comp cam (.60x"/.60x" lift), and unlike other dual spring kits it shouldn't require shimming to get the proper open pressure which are marketed as .650" or .660" lift capable.
Alternatively, is there any consideration being given to developing:
1. An affordable spring shim kit; and
2. An affordable spring installed height gauge.
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unclecowboy (10-07-2023)
10-08-2018, 11:57 AM
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More good stuff!
One of the things I am curious about is why you are not recommending your Summit brand spring kits vs the TFS stuff (I believe you folks own TFS)? Most of your line of new cams top out at .600" lift which is the max recommended lift for SME-174003.
I ask because I just bought this Summit kit (on sale) for use with an LXL/LXL lobed Comp cam (.60x"/.60x" lift), and unlike other dual spring kits it shouldn't require shimming to get the proper open pressure which are marketed as .650" or .660" lift capable.
Alternatively, is there any consideration being given to developing:
1. An affordable spring shim kit; and
2. An affordable spring installed height gauge.
One of the things I am curious about is why you are not recommending your Summit brand spring kits vs the TFS stuff (I believe you folks own TFS)? Most of your line of new cams top out at .600" lift which is the max recommended lift for SME-174003.
I ask because I just bought this Summit kit (on sale) for use with an LXL/LXL lobed Comp cam (.60x"/.60x" lift), and unlike other dual spring kits it shouldn't require shimming to get the proper open pressure which are marketed as .650" or .660" lift capable.
Alternatively, is there any consideration being given to developing:
1. An affordable spring shim kit; and
2. An affordable spring installed height gauge.
For cars that we'd consider race cars that are routinely turned 7500+, we have the higher rate TFS-2500295 to TFS-2500300 high rates.
We think your ideas for the shim kit and height gauge has a lot of merit and we'll see what we can do!
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unclecowboy (10-07-2023)
10-08-2018, 08:14 PM
#6
We have recommended the SME-174003 (140 lbs. seat/ 380 lbs@.600).for our Stage 1 and 2 cams. TFS-2500286 ramps up to 160 seat / 395@.600 and (or the Ti retainer option TFS-2500286). The extra seat pressure without going over 400 @ .600 is the reason we've recommended them for the Stage 3's and 4. With the way these lobes love Rpm an the newer short runner intakes out there, we're thinking the extra seat pressure is a slightly better match.
For cars that we'd consider race cars that are routinely turned 7500+, we have the higher rate TFS-2500295 to TFS-2500300 high rates.
We think your ideas for the shim kit and height gauge has a lot of merit and we'll see what we can do!
For cars that we'd consider race cars that are routinely turned 7500+, we have the higher rate TFS-2500295 to TFS-2500300 high rates.
We think your ideas for the shim kit and height gauge has a lot of merit and we'll see what we can do!
Maybe toss some affordable 11/32" and 3/8" push rods (in standard/popuar lengths) on the "to do" list too?
10-10-2018, 09:29 AM
#7
So was the Stage 1 high lift truck cam geared more towards a cathedral port motor than a rectangle port? I am considering it for a l96 with ls6 valve springs that tows heavy most of the time.
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unclecowboy (10-07-2023)
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10-10-2018, 09:46 AM
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When we get into the Pro LS Stage 3 and 4 automotive cams, we pay particular attention to the IVO opening event to ensure we clear the flat top piston...so we do call out LS3 specific cams there.
If towing is what it's used for, you may want to have a look at our SUM-8718 cam. The key event is the Intake valve closing point-which we back up three degrees from the other Stage 1 truck cams. This will pick up torque down lower. The specs are 205/217 112 lobe separation, 2 degrees advance, and .500 lift. The higher lift of the SUM-8719 will make up for a little of that though, so you couldn't go wrong with that one
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unclecowboy (10-07-2023)
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unclecowboy (10-07-2023)
10-10-2018, 02:33 PM
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Oh boy, this is going to take some explaining. In short, the Pro LS cams will do a good job for anything less than a dedicated drag car at WOT at all times. We'll need to explain why the design envelope of the Pro LS cams falls inside what makes a good Supercharger cam for most people.
The biggest difference of a blower cam is to close the exhaust valve a little bit earlier so you aren't flushing mixture (energy) out the exhaust pipe. This is seen as less overlap. The Pro LS cams are not overlap heavy to begin with (with the exception of Stage 3 and 4 single plane cams) because they are designed around people running full exhaust systems (most of the time) vs. open headers. Our standard automotive offerings would be better than our Turbo cam lineup in terms of overlap.
The secondary difference a PD cam's intake closing a little later and Centri's closing a bit earlier to tailor the powerband to the traction available, Most in the real world are not going to fine tune that event around their cars present traction limitation. PD people usually like blowing the tires off anyway. Our intake closing points align with the factory intake design tuning range and hydraulic lifter rpm limitations-so that takes care of that.
A dedicated WOT blower car *could* get away with earlier intake opening for all out power, but usually people place a higher priority on acceptable idle quality and piston to valve clearance requirements. -where the Pro LS cams were designed to excel.
EVO on the Pro LS Automotive cams and the Turbo cams are a little better suited for boost than the truck cams, but there again...not a hugely important valve event compared to the other three. People with truck's will place a higher priority on what we've done with the intake closing events.
This answer barely scratches the surface, so let us know what character you're looking for, the rest of the build, and what you're going to do with it when it's built.
The biggest difference of a blower cam is to close the exhaust valve a little bit earlier so you aren't flushing mixture (energy) out the exhaust pipe. This is seen as less overlap. The Pro LS cams are not overlap heavy to begin with (with the exception of Stage 3 and 4 single plane cams) because they are designed around people running full exhaust systems (most of the time) vs. open headers. Our standard automotive offerings would be better than our Turbo cam lineup in terms of overlap.
The secondary difference a PD cam's intake closing a little later and Centri's closing a bit earlier to tailor the powerband to the traction available, Most in the real world are not going to fine tune that event around their cars present traction limitation. PD people usually like blowing the tires off anyway. Our intake closing points align with the factory intake design tuning range and hydraulic lifter rpm limitations-so that takes care of that.
A dedicated WOT blower car *could* get away with earlier intake opening for all out power, but usually people place a higher priority on acceptable idle quality and piston to valve clearance requirements. -where the Pro LS cams were designed to excel.
EVO on the Pro LS Automotive cams and the Turbo cams are a little better suited for boost than the truck cams, but there again...not a hugely important valve event compared to the other three. People with truck's will place a higher priority on what we've done with the intake closing events.
This answer barely scratches the surface, so let us know what character you're looking for, the rest of the build, and what you're going to do with it when it's built.
11-19-2018, 10:20 PM
#13
Recommendations I’m really interested in these new cams. What would your recommendation be for an LQ4/4L80 combo in a 1967 Skylark? This will be a DD. I’m hoping to have a little lope at Idle. This is my first project so I’m getting a little lost in all the info out there.
11-20-2018, 07:57 AM
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Sounds like a fun project! What kind of gear and converter are you considering? Will you be tuning yourself or will you be getting a good baseline tune from a local guy first...perhaps one with a dyno? The reason that second question is important is because there are a fair number of tricks that can be used to control the idle and get it where you want it. As for the cams themselves, the intake valve opening event is the critical one in terms of idle quality and something that won't give the tuner or even the ecm itself fits. Our Pro LS Stage 2 opens as 3 btdc as designed. In a 6.0, that begins to cross over from a steady or rolling lope to a bit unsteady. The Stage 1 cam opens a little later...one degree after tdc. This will have more of a steady lope and the tuner can raise idle speed to 900 or 950 to smooth or drop it to 800 to make it sound bigger than it really is. We have another customer that purchased one and will be doing an install this weekend. He has a lot of experience with different cams throughout the range, so we've asked him to get an idle vid and to get his driving impressions.
11-20-2018, 11:34 PM
#16
Sounds like a fun project! What kind of gear and converter are you considering? Will you be tuning yourself or will you be getting a good baseline tune from a local guy first...perhaps one with a dyno? The reason that second question is important is because there are a fair number of tricks that can be used to control the idle and get it where you want it. As for the cams themselves, the intake valve opening event is the critical one in terms of idle quality and something that won't give the tuner or even the ecm itself fits. Our Pro LS Stage 2 opens as 3 btdc as designed. In a 6.0, that begins to cross over from a steady or rolling lope to a bit unsteady. The Stage 1 cam opens a little later...one degree after tdc. This will have more of a steady lope and the tuner can raise idle speed to 900 or 950 to smooth or drop it to 800 to make it sound bigger than it really is. We have another customer that purchased one and will be doing an install this weekend. He has a lot of experience with different cams throughout the range, so we've asked him to get an idle vid and to get his driving impressions.
11-21-2018, 08:33 AM
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We can't disclose our vendor, but they are all American. From the steel through finish process and packaging as well. You may enjoy this article on the manufacturing process. The article is pretty hardcore, although 8-Lug has pointed out it should have we should sub Boron Nitride for Diamond.
11-21-2018, 08:35 AM
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I do plan on finding someone local to me to provide the tune. I don't have the transmission or converter yet. I was planning using the stock 4L80 converter but I am concerned that it won't be high enough. I know a 4L60 would give more options but I don't know how long it would live behind the 6.0L. The car has a limited slip diff and the axle ratio should be a 2.78 but I haven't been able to confirm it yet. I'm in the process of changing the oil pan out and replacing the oil pump while I'm in there. It seemed like a good time to change the cam. Based on the idle characteristic, it sounds like the stage one drop in would be my best bet.
11-22-2018, 11:58 PM
#20
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