Cylinder Heads - What Matters Most?
06-08-2019, 01:15 PM
#461
TECH Veteran
My opinion is that the LS3 aftermarket heads are a joke. The main advantage is the deck thickness to accommodate for nitrous and boost. After someone like Frankenstein port the factory LS3 heads they are neck to neck with a aftermarket LS3 head. Notice the guys on here such as Hammer and Navy that have had SUCCESS out the aftermarket LS3 heads are running are a high dollar low lash solid roller setup. Its some hidden power and costs that comes along going that route. Them guys have some kickass motors but they not running a SIMPLE hydraulic roller.
06-08-2019, 01:33 PM
#462
Yes it was on a 113 LSA.
He went through 2 other cams before he ran a Pat G cam with the LS3 heads. I know one cam was from LG Motorsports and he wasnt happy with it. The car was stuck in the low 11 range. Pat G cam was the only one that propel his WS6 in the 10s using the LS3 heads. That tells me that they are very PICKY on the cam.
He went through 2 other cams before he ran a Pat G cam with the LS3 heads. I know one cam was from LG Motorsports and he wasnt happy with it. The car was stuck in the low 11 range. Pat G cam was the only one that propel his WS6 in the 10s using the LS3 heads. That tells me that they are very PICKY on the cam.
I didn't go with this suggestion although I know it would perform good down low and in the mid range and be better up top compared to my previous cam.
The reasons are because it would fall off too soon after peak.
With the overlap being 20 degrees and IVO 12 and EVC 8 being intake biased the focus of this grind is for good driveability.
This is what was meant to be an upgrade from my old 236/244 114 LSA.
It's certainly a good grind, however for what I am wanting which is power after peak and a 7000rpm rev limit it won't hang on as well up there.
This is why I suspect the 60 ft times were really good because that spec would be a screamer in the low and mid range.
If that camshaft had more exhaust duration I believe it would have pulled a faster time down the track
That cathedral spec he specified was perfect though.
At the same EVO the cathedral head would perform better due to efficiency which is why you need an earlier EVO for the LS3 head.
My newer cam is a better match for my compression and rpm range I am wanting.
06-08-2019, 01:33 PM
#463
My opinion is that the LS3 aftermarket heads are a joke. The main advantage is the deck thickness to accommodate for nitrous and boost. After someone like Frankenstein port the factory LS3 heads they are neck to neck with a aftermarket LS3 head. Notice the guys on here such as Hammer and Navy that have had SUCCESS out the aftermarket LS3 heads are running are a high dollar low lash solid roller setup. Its some hidden power and costs that comes along going that route. Them guys have some kickass motors but they not running a SIMPLE hydraulic roller.
I would rather go for small bore LS7 heads.
06-08-2019, 01:39 PM
#464
TECH Veteran
That's the exact cam he specified me a 242/250 113 LSA +4
I didn't go with this suggestion although I know it would perform good down low and in the mid range and be better up top compared to my previous cam.
The reasons are because it would fall off too soon after peak.
With the overlap being 20 degrees and IVO 12 and EVC 8 being intake biased the focus of this grind is for good driveability.
This is what was meant to be an upgrade from my old 236/244 114 LSA.
It's certainly a good grind, however for what I am wanting which is power after peak and a 7000rpm rev limit it won't hang on as well up there.
This is why I suspect the 60 ft times were really good because that spec would be a screamer in the low and mid range.
If that camshaft had more exhaust duration I believe it would have pulled a faster time down the track
That cathedral spec he specified was perfect though.
At the same EVO the cathedral head would perform better due to efficiency which is why you need an earlier EVO for the LS3 head.
My newer cam is a better match for my compression and rpm range I am wanting.
I didn't go with this suggestion although I know it would perform good down low and in the mid range and be better up top compared to my previous cam.
The reasons are because it would fall off too soon after peak.
With the overlap being 20 degrees and IVO 12 and EVC 8 being intake biased the focus of this grind is for good driveability.
This is what was meant to be an upgrade from my old 236/244 114 LSA.
It's certainly a good grind, however for what I am wanting which is power after peak and a 7000rpm rev limit it won't hang on as well up there.
This is why I suspect the 60 ft times were really good because that spec would be a screamer in the low and mid range.
If that camshaft had more exhaust duration I believe it would have pulled a faster time down the track
That cathedral spec he specified was perfect though.
At the same EVO the cathedral head would perform better due to efficiency which is why you need an earlier EVO for the LS3 head.
My newer cam is a better match for my compression and rpm range I am wanting.
06-09-2019, 05:53 PM
#466
Im pretty sure none of the ported stock castings could make the sbe records youre seeing from TSP or GPI. Tsp did it hyd roller too. Gpi been solid for the whole thing. That shows exactly how far they can be taken. I know some of the actual power numbers and they blow most of the guys out of the water. I cant publish them but seriously no stock ported casting would last.
And again the PRC were straight off the shelf. No months of waiting or special mojo needed. Serious affordable power.
And again the PRC were straight off the shelf. No months of waiting or special mojo needed. Serious affordable power.
06-09-2019, 06:28 PM
#467
TECH Addict
Im pretty sure none of the ported stock castings could make the sbe records youre seeing from TSP or GPI. Tsp did it hyd roller too. Gpi been solid for the whole thing. That shows exactly how far they can be taken. I know some of the actual power numbers and they blow most of the guys out of the water. I cant publish them but seriously no stock ported casting would last.
And again the PRC were straight off the shelf. No months of waiting or special mojo needed. Serious affordable power.
And again the PRC were straight off the shelf. No months of waiting or special mojo needed. Serious affordable power.
Competitive advantage be damned, be a better driver. Advertise your every secret, help everyone learn, and pray your competition has used everything you did, so you can best them on the track as truly the best racer, not the best secret engine tricks.
Let it come down to who drives best, and let the community learn how to build fast as a whole.
Bunch of petty bitches, in my opinion, when it comes to that secret squirrel nonsense...
06-09-2019, 07:26 PM
#468
TECH Senior Member
David, I like the way you think!!
06-09-2019, 09:03 PM
#469
Brodix heads were the heads of choice for my good friend who raced Texas Pro Stock (2006, 2007) made 1150 rwhp NA...but either in a 540 ci or a 632 ci.. sorry I ever left H-Town. Fast forward to today - his street car is a pro-charged 540 ci 1958 Malibu making 1600 rwhp (mild boost) .. stupid numbers and now races a newer pro-mod SS..even more stupid numbers.. Believe he still uses Brodix...
06-10-2019, 12:57 AM
#470
Im pretty sure none of the ported stock castings could make the sbe records youre seeing from TSP or GPI. Tsp did it hyd roller too. Gpi been solid for the whole thing. That shows exactly how far they can be taken. I know some of the actual power numbers and they blow most of the guys out of the water. I cant publish them but seriously no stock ported casting would last.
And again the PRC were straight off the shelf. No months of waiting or special mojo needed. Serious affordable power.
And again the PRC were straight off the shelf. No months of waiting or special mojo needed. Serious affordable power.
06-10-2019, 03:41 AM
#472
Do you have workshop or do you only sell parts?
06-10-2019, 06:17 AM
#473
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Regarding cams I think the most important thing is to make sure you install the lifter with the roller side down so it touches the cam lobe. And make sure the roller points the right way too.
Especially make sure the cam gear bolt holes face the front of the engine.
All kidding aside. There is some voodoo out there, but basic principles trump all.
Especially make sure the cam gear bolt holes face the front of the engine.
All kidding aside. There is some voodoo out there, but basic principles trump all.
Last edited by Darth_V8r; 06-10-2019 at 06:37 AM.
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06-10-2019, 09:51 AM
#474
Is it true that Ed Curtis has some of the best records in the country with customers using his camshafts?
He claims he had the first ever proper performing camshaft for a square port ls3 head.
He said when a customer of his purchased it they thought the specs were unusual and he went ahead and pulled a time so quick it set a record.
What do you guys think Ed would have meant by the camshaft specs being unusual and then everyone being surprised how well the engine performed?
He claims he had the first ever proper performing camshaft for a square port ls3 head.
He said when a customer of his purchased it they thought the specs were unusual and he went ahead and pulled a time so quick it set a record.
What do you guys think Ed would have meant by the camshaft specs being unusual and then everyone being surprised how well the engine performed?
06-10-2019, 07:53 PM
#476
At a previous shop i workrled at, we had a local guy come to the dyno 5 times on an 05 gto with ls3 top end. Purchased 3 different ed curtis cams. They were each supposed to be bigger and badder. Then ed made him spend tons more money than necessary and he measured pushrods to the .001 and got 2 different trunion upgrades etc. Still didnt make anywhere near what was promised or expected. He went back to that well 3 times. 3. We offered to help spec him a cam but he wasnt having it. I think at the time ed was using comp but may have switched to lunati i forget. Dude did all the work himself we only tuned it. It was a very poor showing each time and i felt bad for him because he put all this time money and effort and parts into a car he was never satisfied with. of course when things go wrong like that its always the tuners fault.
No one tells the stories like that i guess. I know we all have them but that proved quite a bit to me then. Iirc 2 of the cams were very similar to others one being the spinmonster cam the vette guys loved that wasnt even supposed to make power for rect ports, that was the first one he had and the last one had a HUGE intake lift like nearly .650 reminiscent of the older futral high lift cams or the torquer v3 i think?
The heads were stock gm ls and the intake was stock gm ls3. We did a few other ls3 top end combos that people brought in with other cams and they made more and were more impressive.
Even ls3 heads couldn't make that combo shine.
No one tells the stories like that i guess. I know we all have them but that proved quite a bit to me then. Iirc 2 of the cams were very similar to others one being the spinmonster cam the vette guys loved that wasnt even supposed to make power for rect ports, that was the first one he had and the last one had a HUGE intake lift like nearly .650 reminiscent of the older futral high lift cams or the torquer v3 i think?
The heads were stock gm ls and the intake was stock gm ls3. We did a few other ls3 top end combos that people brought in with other cams and they made more and were more impressive.
Even ls3 heads couldn't make that combo shine.
06-10-2019, 10:18 PM
#477
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I tend to prefer working with the guy who did the heads on the cam spec. Heads and cam are like PB&J. They go together right or not at all.
06-10-2019, 11:13 PM
#478
...TSP used a ported intake by FED....ls3 heads had to go for Ls7's better P to V clearance & more Compression and a solid roller was used...Hell ER made 800+ with a basic as 376 and factory ported heads....these guy's start the record BS to sell parts....they Ain't doing nothing new under the sun...how do i know? Any ? I have i go straight 2 the source.
https://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/s....php?t=1250106
https://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/s....php?t=1250106
06-10-2019, 11:31 PM
#479
I can make basically the same hp with either head ls3 or ls7...one just has a better tq curve = shift recovery as it's smaller and a better design, also P2V clearance and valve drop....nothing a higher gear can't Fix for a ls3.
If my ls7's made 740 the ls3 would make 720ish with around a 30 ft tq loss example..... The ls3 head test gave it away the diff in 15.& 12 degree heads. Add in the higher runner placement for a better line of air & fuel.......for the 7's.
If my ls7's made 740 the ls3 would make 720ish with around a 30 ft tq loss example..... The ls3 head test gave it away the diff in 15.& 12 degree heads. Add in the higher runner placement for a better line of air & fuel.......for the 7's.
06-10-2019, 11:55 PM
#480
It really doesn't matter no way what heads you get if you buy trash 4 a intake. 378 cfm heads and a 360cfm intake...U think i spent 3k+ on heads to buy a 1k intake get it ported + $500 and it still can't supply what's needed.
The **** is really simple...if you can get more air & fuel in....with the basics
CID x Rpm x MCSA add compression (your happy with)...it will be there! Don't expect a big harvest if you didn't plant good seeds...
The **** is really simple...if you can get more air & fuel in....with the basics
CID x Rpm x MCSA add compression (your happy with)...it will be there! Don't expect a big harvest if you didn't plant good seeds...