Quiet Cam Help for LSX454
06-10-2020, 10:32 AM
#1
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Quiet Cam Help for LSX454 Hey guys,
I have an LSX 454 with RHS LS7 Pro Heads and a BTR stage IV cam. Looking to tame this thing and quiet it down.
Any suggestions for running a stock cam? If so which one. I'm done with the thump and rough idle. I want stock like characteristics.
Thanks
I have an LSX 454 with RHS LS7 Pro Heads and a BTR stage IV cam. Looking to tame this thing and quiet it down.
Any suggestions for running a stock cam? If so which one. I'm done with the thump and rough idle. I want stock like characteristics.
Thanks
06-10-2020, 10:43 AM
#2
I like this kind of thread.
From my research the BTR is a 247/258 112LSA +3.
I would have thought in a 454 it should run well with a good tune.
These 454's can take quite a bit of overlap before they start to run rough.
Before I give my full answer/ suggestion, is your car auto or manual and what RPM is your idle speed?
From my research the BTR is a 247/258 112LSA +3.
I would have thought in a 454 it should run well with a good tune.
These 454's can take quite a bit of overlap before they start to run rough.
Before I give my full answer/ suggestion, is your car auto or manual and what RPM is your idle speed?
06-10-2020, 10:56 AM
#3
There's not going to be a stage X cam that is the right fit for you here. You will really need to talk to someone to get what you're looking for. A 454 is not a common platform, and wanting a docile 454 is even more rare. There may be some very streetable LS7 cams out there that will work for you, but really just contact any of the normal resources out there and they can help you.
To add to Bort's questions, what car is this in?
To add to Bort's questions, what car is this in?
06-10-2020, 11:32 AM
#4
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I like this kind of thread.
From my research the BTR is a 247/258 112LSA +3.
I would have thought in a 454 it should run well with a good tune.
These 454's can take quite a bit of overlap before they start to run rough.
Before I give my full answer/ suggestion, is your car auto or manual and what RPM is your idle speed?
From my research the BTR is a 247/258 112LSA +3.
I would have thought in a 454 it should run well with a good tune.
These 454's can take quite a bit of overlap before they start to run rough.
Before I give my full answer/ suggestion, is your car auto or manual and what RPM is your idle speed?
There's not going to be a stage X cam that is the right fit for you here. You will really need to talk to someone to get what you're looking for. A 454 is not a common platform, and wanting a docile 454 is even more rare. There may be some very streetable LS7 cams out there that will work for you, but really just contact any of the normal resources out there and they can help you.
To add to Bort's questions, what car is this in?
To add to Bort's questions, what car is this in?
I was thinking the same thing. It is driveable for sure and doesn't surge that much except on high gear low load situations such as cruising highway at 60 - 70 mph in 6th gear. Even then it's not bad at all but the car idles plain nasty which really turned me off from it after almost 2 years of having it. This is what you get for trying to build a race NA engine I guess.
Need to tame it down to near stock levels and get it over with. No more thumping at red lights hopefully.
Last edited by 20SS06; 06-10-2020 at 11:44 AM.
06-10-2020, 12:12 PM
#5
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What is your compression ratio?
06-10-2020, 12:14 PM
#6
Ok cool.
A cam spec I would use would be a 244/256 116LSA+4.
This will have 10 degrees less overlap at 18.
In a 454 this should drive close to stock if tuned well and still have a good power band.
If you want something even milder you could go with a 242/254 117LSA +4 with 14 degrees of overlap.
Same valve events as the first camshaft I mentioned but with less overlap.
Because you have a big engine you need to make sure you have an IVC of around 53-55 or the engine will fall on it's *** in the top end.
A cam spec I would use would be a 244/256 116LSA+4.
This will have 10 degrees less overlap at 18.
In a 454 this should drive close to stock if tuned well and still have a good power band.
If you want something even milder you could go with a 242/254 117LSA +4 with 14 degrees of overlap.
Same valve events as the first camshaft I mentioned but with less overlap.
Because you have a big engine you need to make sure you have an IVC of around 53-55 or the engine will fall on it's *** in the top end.
06-10-2020, 12:14 PM
#7
Something like a 232/246 on 120+4 would be just one example of something that would work. Idle would be a loud rumble but no big misfires or chopping. With a cam this small there would be no surging or any random misfires. I would say you'd still want some high lift on the cam.
I'd still strongly recommend going to an expert. Mild combos like this usually aren't bragged about on internet forums, but there are tons of them out there. Not everyone can tolerate a huge cam on the street.
It is going to be a major compromise, but it will still be a great running engine for how docile it will be. You could always add boost if you wanted more performance without sacrificing driveability.
Did you ever dyno it with the BTR cam? Curious where power peak was.
I'd still strongly recommend going to an expert. Mild combos like this usually aren't bragged about on internet forums, but there are tons of them out there. Not everyone can tolerate a huge cam on the street.
It is going to be a major compromise, but it will still be a great running engine for how docile it will be. You could always add boost if you wanted more performance without sacrificing driveability.
Did you ever dyno it with the BTR cam? Curious where power peak was.
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06-10-2020, 02:04 PM
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Not sure actually. But guessing in the 12 range
I had this cam before -> 236/248 .634”/.634” 117 LSA +3 advance
Can't remember how it idled. The IVC on that cam is 52. Overlap was 8 degrees.
Pretty good cam suggestions really. Thanks! Just to let you know, I'm looking to get the STOCKest idle I can lol.
I would think that the 120+4 would be very tame and idle stockish and not a loud rumble. Especially given that the cam is 232/246 which is on the smaller range don't you think?
The cam lope made me hate the car lol and no I haven't dyno'd it. Although I want to know as well
Ok cool.
A cam spec I would use would be a 244/256 116LSA+4.
This will have 10 degrees less overlap at 18.
In a 454 this should drive close to stock if tuned well and still have a good power band.
If you want something even milder you could go with a 242/254 117LSA +4 with 14 degrees of overlap.
Same valve events as the first camshaft I mentioned but with less overlap.
Because you have a big engine you need to make sure you have an IVC of around 53-55 or the engine will fall on it's *** in the top end.
A cam spec I would use would be a 244/256 116LSA+4.
This will have 10 degrees less overlap at 18.
In a 454 this should drive close to stock if tuned well and still have a good power band.
If you want something even milder you could go with a 242/254 117LSA +4 with 14 degrees of overlap.
Same valve events as the first camshaft I mentioned but with less overlap.
Because you have a big engine you need to make sure you have an IVC of around 53-55 or the engine will fall on it's *** in the top end.
Can't remember how it idled. The IVC on that cam is 52. Overlap was 8 degrees.
Pretty good cam suggestions really. Thanks! Just to let you know, I'm looking to get the STOCKest idle I can lol.
Something like a 232/246 on 120+4 would be just one example of something that would work. Idle would be a loud rumble but no big misfires or chopping. With a cam this small there would be no surging or any random misfires. I would say you'd still want some high lift on the cam.
I'd still strongly recommend going to an expert. Mild combos like this usually aren't bragged about on internet forums, but there are tons of them out there. Not everyone can tolerate a huge cam on the street.
It is going to be a major compromise, but it will still be a great running engine for how docile it will be. You could always add boost if you wanted more performance without sacrificing driveability.
Did you ever dyno it with the BTR cam? Curious where power peak was.
I'd still strongly recommend going to an expert. Mild combos like this usually aren't bragged about on internet forums, but there are tons of them out there. Not everyone can tolerate a huge cam on the street.
It is going to be a major compromise, but it will still be a great running engine for how docile it will be. You could always add boost if you wanted more performance without sacrificing driveability.
Did you ever dyno it with the BTR cam? Curious where power peak was.
The cam lope made me hate the car lol and no I haven't dyno'd it. Although I want to know as well
06-10-2020, 02:34 PM
#10
There will be a little tone to the idle with the cam I recommended but nothing that is loping or chopping. It is a big engine, and very powerful. It is going to have some authority behind it no matter what, but yes it will be a very calm idle relative to what you have now.
If you really want to prioritize stock like manners above all else just put a stock LS7 cam in it. Very cheap, and revs to 7000 rpm in a 427. In your 454 you'd probably have peak power at 6000 and rev to 6500.
People on this site right or wrong are going to try and get you to maximize power production which means a bigger cam with overlap. This is the wrong place to get support in putting a stock cam in an otherwise 700+hp capable engine, but that to me is what it sounds like you're looking for. There's nothing wrong with that either if it fits your goals...it will probably be the most powerful NA engine with a stock LS7 cam. You'd have yourself a new internet record.
If you really want to prioritize stock like manners above all else just put a stock LS7 cam in it. Very cheap, and revs to 7000 rpm in a 427. In your 454 you'd probably have peak power at 6000 and rev to 6500.
People on this site right or wrong are going to try and get you to maximize power production which means a bigger cam with overlap. This is the wrong place to get support in putting a stock cam in an otherwise 700+hp capable engine, but that to me is what it sounds like you're looking for. There's nothing wrong with that either if it fits your goals...it will probably be the most powerful NA engine with a stock LS7 cam. You'd have yourself a new internet record.
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06-10-2020, 03:13 PM
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06-10-2020, 04:14 PM
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cam motion stage 2 LS7 cam. 228/240-118+4. Will work great with your 12:1 compression. Good balance of rpm and torque. Will have a very tame idle.
06-10-2020, 11:12 PM
#14
I have the 228/240 Cammotion cam in a 416 with LS7 small bore heads and 12:1 compression also... I can say that it is VERY mild.... in a 454 I would honestly say it is just too small. I would go a couple steps up.... considering an LS1 with basically 100 cubic inches less can run a 228/228 and it idles/drives great...
06-11-2020, 12:42 AM
#15
TECH Resident
I had a btr 239/254 in mine previously, bit of lope but drove great... Theres one thing id try 1st if in your shoes. Put some varex mufflers on it,
06-11-2020, 06:40 AM
#16
OP,take note what the above members have said.
I get the feeling you are a bit pissed off/annoyed with the way the engine idles etc and just want it to drive smoothly.
I wouldn't think your current camshaft would be that bad in a 454.
Mick had a 239/254 114 LSA in his 454 and this drove great and his car is also manual.
This is with 18 degrees of overlap.
The absolute smallest I would go in that size engine is the 242/254 117LSA+4 camshaft I mentioned before.
14 degrees of overlap is NOTHING for a 454 and any competent tuner should be able to get it to drive very smooth with zero bucking/surging with a manual transmission.
With your compression also, it makes more sense to run a camshaft to suit.
With aftermarket cylinder heads the air speed etc would be higher which in turn helps with driveability when using larger camshafts.
I get the feeling you are a bit pissed off/annoyed with the way the engine idles etc and just want it to drive smoothly.
I wouldn't think your current camshaft would be that bad in a 454.
Mick had a 239/254 114 LSA in his 454 and this drove great and his car is also manual.
This is with 18 degrees of overlap.
The absolute smallest I would go in that size engine is the 242/254 117LSA+4 camshaft I mentioned before.
14 degrees of overlap is NOTHING for a 454 and any competent tuner should be able to get it to drive very smooth with zero bucking/surging with a manual transmission.
With your compression also, it makes more sense to run a camshaft to suit.
With aftermarket cylinder heads the air speed etc would be higher which in turn helps with driveability when using larger camshafts.
06-11-2020, 08:03 AM
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Something like a 232/246 on 120+4 would be just one example of something that would work. Idle would be a loud rumble but no big misfires or chopping. With a cam this small there would be no surging or any random misfires. I would say you'd still want some high lift on the cam.
...
...
What makes speccing cams for other people so difficult is that it is difficult to avoid super-imposing your own preferences into the equation. This is a case where you err on the small side. This is not a customer who is going to potentially complaint because the cam left 10 hp on the table, but does have the potential to complain if the cam is still choppy after doing a cam swap.
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06-11-2020, 08:06 AM
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I have the 228/240 Cammotion cam in a 416 with LS7 small bore heads and 12:1 compression also... I can say that it is VERY mild.... in a 454 I would honestly say it is just too small. I would go a couple steps up.... considering an LS1 with basically 100 cubic inches less can run a 228/228 and it idles/drives great...
06-11-2020, 08:09 AM
#19
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When i shut my varex mufflers it really tames everything down, its the noise which gets to you at times. Somedays ill have full open and others shut , shuts for relaxing
06-11-2020, 08:15 AM
#20
Fair enough.
It sounds to me it's the surge the OP wants to get rid of going by the tone of his post.
I don't think he means he wants it to sound like a 100% stock engine.
Stock like characteristics can mean different things to everyone.
14 degrees of overlap is nothing though.
It will only have a little note but drive smooth with a competent tuner.
Going from 28 degrees overlap to -1 is a huge change.
OP, can you elaborate on what you mean by stock like characteristics?
If you are wanting something with negative overlap, lower overlap etc...
Or do you just want to get rid of the surging as your main focus with a smoother idle than before?
It sounds to me it's the surge the OP wants to get rid of going by the tone of his post.
I don't think he means he wants it to sound like a 100% stock engine.
Stock like characteristics can mean different things to everyone.
14 degrees of overlap is nothing though.
It will only have a little note but drive smooth with a competent tuner.
Going from 28 degrees overlap to -1 is a huge change.
OP, can you elaborate on what you mean by stock like characteristics?
If you are wanting something with negative overlap, lower overlap etc...
Or do you just want to get rid of the surging as your main focus with a smoother idle than before?