416 head selection
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 115
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From: Houston, Tx
416 head selection Building a 416 and looking for some advice on head choice. The motor will have 10.5:1 with 70cc chambers. I am looking at a couple options.
1st MMS235
2nd MMS223 sportsman
3rd ???? Share your thoughts
All forged internals and studded L99 block.
Cam will be mild. Bob at Cam Motions has provided me with a grind under 600 lift (don't remember the exact lift numbers) 224/232 114+3. I am open to other cam ideas. 6l80e 2800 stall. This cam was chosen for good low rpm power with fuel economy in mind and he used the 235 flow numbers for the spec. The engine will start life in a Tahoe. I want to put parts together that if I decide to change things up and either boost it or raise compression later I can. I have a 51 dodge panel truck that will ultimately be the home for this engine.
Intervals are as follows:
Manley crank / rods
Wiseco -15cc grafix rings
King bearings
1st MMS235
2nd MMS223 sportsman
3rd ???? Share your thoughts
All forged internals and studded L99 block.
Cam will be mild. Bob at Cam Motions has provided me with a grind under 600 lift (don't remember the exact lift numbers) 224/232 114+3. I am open to other cam ideas. 6l80e 2800 stall. This cam was chosen for good low rpm power with fuel economy in mind and he used the 235 flow numbers for the spec. The engine will start life in a Tahoe. I want to put parts together that if I decide to change things up and either boost it or raise compression later I can. I have a 51 dodge panel truck that will ultimately be the home for this engine.
Intervals are as follows:
Manley crank / rods
Wiseco -15cc grafix rings
King bearings
I would go with the 235 myself. Great job keeping intended use in mind when selecting parts. Motor will do quite well in a Tahoe configured the way you are doing it.
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From: Portland, Oregon
Out of the choices provided, I would go with the MMS235's, out of the box.
I would rather have a set of "Mamo-fied" MMS220's, though. Especially with Tony's NFI exhaust program.
If I was going over ~220cc for the intake runner... I would probably try for the Mast 240 small-bore LS3 heads.
I would rather have a set of "Mamo-fied" MMS220's, though. Especially with Tony's NFI exhaust program.
If I was going over ~220cc for the intake runner... I would probably try for the Mast 240 small-bore LS3 heads.
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Out of the choices provided, I would go with the MMS235's, out of the box.
I would rather have a set of "Mamo-fied" MMS220's, though. Especially with Tony's NFI exhaust program.
If I was going over ~220cc for the intake runner... I would probably try for the Mast 240 small-bore LS3 heads.
I would rather have a set of "Mamo-fied" MMS220's, though. Especially with Tony's NFI exhaust program.
If I was going over ~220cc for the intake runner... I would probably try for the Mast 240 small-bore LS3 heads.
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I totally forgot about PRC. THE 237cc head performs as good as TFS235s.
There is a good article in a mag. Doing assorted cathedral heads on a 408, IIRC. That article opened my eye to the PRC heads.
Have fun researching. Please let us know what you decide on. What exhaust and CAI do you plan on running?
Jim
There is a good article in a mag. Doing assorted cathedral heads on a 408, IIRC. That article opened my eye to the PRC heads.
Have fun researching. Please let us know what you decide on. What exhaust and CAI do you plan on running?
Jim
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 115
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From: Houston, Tx
I already have a corsa CAI on my Tahoe. Long tube 1 7/8" no cats. I will be doing a dual exhaust but haven't completely decided what that looks like. Possibly 2.5" due to the intended use of the vehicle. I want a quieter ride than what I have now. Will be researching mufflers and resonators along the way. I know that is unorthodox for this forum but as Dv8 mentioned In The first post to this thread, the true intended use of the vehicle must be remembered. I must admit I have a negative opinion about the PRC heads. I can't tell you why, I just do. Just one of those things that gets in your head I guess. Ford or Chevy you know. I am keeping an open mind however on this build. I do love the beauty that Tony turns out, I have some AFR210's on a 383 right now. Chamber size restricts me from using those on this motor at this time, but how fun would that be? I wouldn't say budget doesn't matter, but I do know and believe that good parts chosen correctly leads to great things.
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Speaking of smallish heads on a lager stroker (ls3), I though I seen Tony M post before about Someone reusing his heads on a larger engine and having killer torque. Maybe it was 220s or something like that. Might be work some investigation. Maybe not. LOL. Just to see what works
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 115
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From: Houston, Tx
That was the reasoning behind my second choice of MMS223's. I read the post of a guy that started with a 408 in mind and it morphed(imagine that) but he had the heads/cam already. 520+whp on what Tony admitted was a setup he would not have proposed for that displacement. He is the one who set my 383 up with the 210's. Although it never made large numbers it did pull like a freight train. (Bearing issues again has prompted me to move on from this block) My thought is to use the 235's with the smallish cam I have posted and make torque like a train with lower compression, but when it gets time to swap to my ultimate goal of the 51 panel truck, have a head that will support large HP/TQ with boosted or NA with supporting mods.
If your budget allows the Mamo 235's are decent. I have a set on a 416 myself. And kinda wonder if it woulda got the same #s with any other head and saved some money.
Another one I would look at is the Frankenstein M311 heads some people seem to have good results, all word of mouth haven't seen any comparisons myself.
Another one I would look at is the Frankenstein M311 heads some people seem to have good results, all word of mouth haven't seen any comparisons myself.
Originally Posted by Gooze_1
If your budget allows the Mamo 235's are decent. I have a set on a 416 myself. And kinda wonder if it woulda got the same #s with any other head and saved some money.
Another one I would look at is the Frankenstein M311 heads some people seem to have good results, all word of mouth haven't seen any comparisons myself.
Another one I would look at is the Frankenstein M311 heads some people seem to have good results, all word of mouth haven't seen any comparisons myself.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 115
Likes: 14
From: Houston, Tx
I have really learned from previous builds that the under the curve numbers mean way more to me than a max HP number. That's why I am polling everyone. Help me think outside the box and possibly same some money while I'm out there.
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Thats what I did for my 434.
I went the 245 version though.
