430" F710 drag engine
On The Tree
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 168
Likes: 110
From: Weatherford TX
There is too much to post about this build and due to the issues this brought Baldwin I rather they explain everything. At the end of the day we shared what was provided by them.
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 310
Likes: 24
I have been following along with this build as an amateur. I enjoy building my own motors. I am building very similar.
when it came to choosing a head FED was very helpful and I wanted to use the F710 heads. Instead of just selling me the heads they told me what is what.
I ended up with brodix br7 bs heads. And thought lme aka late model engines was a reputable place. Boy was I wrong they are terrible to deal with. Wished I would have stuck with a company that will at least be honest with you.
when it came to choosing a head FED was very helpful and I wanted to use the F710 heads. Instead of just selling me the heads they told me what is what.
I ended up with brodix br7 bs heads. And thought lme aka late model engines was a reputable place. Boy was I wrong they are terrible to deal with. Wished I would have stuck with a company that will at least be honest with you.
On The Tree
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 168
Likes: 110
From: Weatherford TX
Well don’t keep us in suspense. Tell us what happened. Don’t just say I’m not 100% correct.
FED claimed that the CID motor had an advantage over the FED motor due to the CID intake being much better. But conveniently left out the fact that the FED motor had a bigger cam, bigger carb supplied by the customer and not a shop carb, and then they left out that the FED motor had a dry sump oil system on it.
This is what I’m talking about, you can’t omit facts or lead people to believe that it was a direct comparison when it wasn’t. Just come out and say “it wasn’t a legit comparison but our motor made XXX”. Nothing wrong with that but to lead people to believe something that’s blatantly false is lying to people.
No response to the N/A track times still. Wonder why that is?
OP, sorry to junk your thread up. I just wanted to clarify a few things and make sure people know the truth. Best of luck to you and your build. I hope the new cam finds you that power you’re missing.
FED claimed that the CID motor had an advantage over the FED motor due to the CID intake being much better. But conveniently left out the fact that the FED motor had a bigger cam, bigger carb supplied by the customer and not a shop carb, and then they left out that the FED motor had a dry sump oil system on it.
This is what I’m talking about, you can’t omit facts or lead people to believe that it was a direct comparison when it wasn’t. Just come out and say “it wasn’t a legit comparison but our motor made XXX”. Nothing wrong with that but to lead people to believe something that’s blatantly false is lying to people.
No response to the N/A track times still. Wonder why that is?
OP, sorry to junk your thread up. I just wanted to clarify a few things and make sure people know the truth. Best of luck to you and your build. I hope the new cam finds you that power you’re missing.
Why would I respond to that? I don't have car setup like the one posted.
So you buy direct, things go not as planned but reaching out to us is not an option? Got it.
Nowhere on that YB thread did Chris Frank ever come in to say a single word to anyone.
Still figuring out where we are "misleading" anyone. These castings have been out for years. If there was indeed "false, misleading, aggressive marking etc" then shops and builders nationwide would be talking about this. I guess us sharing our customer's results are considered "Aggressive" Marketing? At the end of the day YOU made your choice and entitled to share your opinion and so called experience (yet to till us who you are) all that matters you moved on and happy.
Nowhere on that YB thread did Chris Frank ever come in to say a single word to anyone.
Still figuring out where we are "misleading" anyone. These castings have been out for years. If there was indeed "false, misleading, aggressive marking etc" then shops and builders nationwide would be talking about this. I guess us sharing our customer's results are considered "Aggressive" Marketing? At the end of the day YOU made your choice and entitled to share your opinion and so called experience (yet to till us who you are) all that matters you moved on and happy.
Im not entitled to give you anything. This was all done thru a business account and I’d rather not drag the business name into this goat rope.
I’m proving and have proved to people here that you are attempting to mislead people here. You just didn’t get away with it this time. The facts are out there for everyone to read. I posted the link and told them to call Baldwin personally.
You attempted to tell people that the difference was the heads that made 58 more HP and mentioned none of the other things that I listed. That is misleading. Hell, that’s the definition of misleading.
Shops around the nation have engines to build and customers to work for. They don’t have time to argue about every dyno comparison. Y’all aren’t that big lol.
I’ll be here if and when you decide to mislead people again.
On The Tree
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 168
Likes: 110
From: Weatherford TX
I have been following along with this build as an amateur. I enjoy building my own motors. I am building very similar.
when it came to choosing a head FED was very helpful and I wanted to use the F710 heads. Instead of just selling me the heads they told me what is what.
I ended up with brodix br7 bs heads. And thought lme aka late model engines was a reputable place. Boy was I wrong they are terrible to deal with. Wished I would have stuck with a company that will at least be honest with you.
when it came to choosing a head FED was very helpful and I wanted to use the F710 heads. Instead of just selling me the heads they told me what is what.
I ended up with brodix br7 bs heads. And thought lme aka late model engines was a reputable place. Boy was I wrong they are terrible to deal with. Wished I would have stuck with a company that will at least be honest with you.
On The Tree
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 168
Likes: 110
From: Weatherford TX
If Shabs is not Chris, then I apologize and I’ll correct my previous posts. I assumed it was Chris because he said “my place” as if he owned it. Maybe the shop has multiple owners? Or it’s everybody’s shop?
Im not entitled to give you anything. This was all done thru a business account and I’d rather not drag the business name into this goat rope.
I’m proving and have proved to people here that you are attempting to mislead people here. You just didn’t get away with it this time. The facts are out there for everyone to read. I posted the link and told them to call Baldwin personally.
You attempted to tell people that the difference was the heads that made 58 more HP and mentioned none of the other things that I listed. That is misleading. Hell, that’s the definition of misleading.
Shops around the nation have engines to build and customers to work for. They don’t have time to argue about every dyno comparison. Y’all aren’t that big lol.
I’ll be here if and when you decide to mislead people again.
Im not entitled to give you anything. This was all done thru a business account and I’d rather not drag the business name into this goat rope.
I’m proving and have proved to people here that you are attempting to mislead people here. You just didn’t get away with it this time. The facts are out there for everyone to read. I posted the link and told them to call Baldwin personally.
You attempted to tell people that the difference was the heads that made 58 more HP and mentioned none of the other things that I listed. That is misleading. Hell, that’s the definition of misleading.
Shops around the nation have engines to build and customers to work for. They don’t have time to argue about every dyno comparison. Y’all aren’t that big lol.
I’ll be here if and when you decide to mislead people again.
FED might not be but I am
all 300lbs. 300lbs huh? Good for you man. I wish you good health this year.
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Verdad Gallardo On The Tree
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 168
Likes: 110
From: Weatherford TX
I do want to add, we don't get/win a single thing selling anyone a pipe dream or in your words mislead. Hell even someone on here just stated what we recommended and wasn't our F Series.
Our doors are open to anyone who wants to double check what we use on what WE manufacture. Yes sir a jolly 300lbs looks good on a 6'7" body
I would link my OnlyFans but that's for another day to discuss. 
Banned
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 1,984
Likes: 682
I have been following along with this build as an amateur. I enjoy building my own motors. I am building very similar.
when it came to choosing a head FED was very helpful and I wanted to use the F710 heads. Instead of just selling me the heads they told me what is what.
I ended up with brodix br7 bs heads. And thought lme aka late model engines was a reputable place. Boy was I wrong they are terrible to deal with. Wished I would have stuck with a company that will at least be honest with you.
when it came to choosing a head FED was very helpful and I wanted to use the F710 heads. Instead of just selling me the heads they told me what is what.
I ended up with brodix br7 bs heads. And thought lme aka late model engines was a reputable place. Boy was I wrong they are terrible to deal with. Wished I would have stuck with a company that will at least be honest with you.
let me finish my 1st two BS heads ...1's ready to go.
Btw what the hell is going on here...
Banned
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 1,984
Likes: 682
The Baldwin engine comparison mentioned here needs more context. This was clarified on Yellowbullet when this info came out. I’ll post a link to the thread so you can read it yourself.
It wasn’t that CID took it as an attack, it was the fact that the comparison wasn’t a good comparison and the information provided was misleading and it needed clarification. The engines mentioned are an apples to oranges comparison. It was Baldwin’s intention to use the same camshafts but the pistons in the motor with CID heads were not correct. The cam difference was no less than 10 degrees smaller on both the intake and exhaust side on the CID headed motor. Also the FED headed motor was set up with a customer supplied carb with bigger bores than the shop carb that was used on the CID motor. The CID headed motor also had a wet sump oil pump and the FED had a dry sump oil pump and different intakes were used. So to lead someone to believe the only differences between the motors was the heads is a gross misrepresentation of what was actually true. I want to make sure everyone here is perfectly clear on that before people get the wrong idea. And yes, if you want to know Baldwin’s opinion, you should call them.
More carb, bigger cam and a dry sump to pull vacuum on the crank case and reduce windage = more HP from the FED engine. Big surprise. So if FED wants to use this in any way to boost their product or “clout” then they’re just BS’ing you into believing something that’s not worth mentioning. Credit where credit is due, the F series head made good power. I’m simply clearing this up before someone that isn’t informed believes the F series head “stomps other castings” (thread title) because that hasn’t been proven in the least bit. In the words of Greg Good (an absolute gangster in the LS world. Research him.) “There isn't anything about the CID LS7 casting that takes a back seat to anyone, and the fact that you're buying from a stand-up guy that won't turn his back on you makes it a no-brainer.”
Before the nay-sayers jump in on this, Chris Frank himself AGREED with John at CID on these issues. Additionally, Baldwin in no way was intentionally misrepresenting these builds. Did they do a good job of relaying exactly what was going on? No. They just relayed the data they had. Someone that didn’t do their research and just blindly posted it up and thus the “Chris Frank F series LS7 heads stomps other castings” thread was born and information based on lack of facts began to spread. Looks like it’s still spreading….. Some of the people that are spreading it know better. That’s what gets me. Whatever fits the narrative I suppose.
Guys look, I used to be a FED fan boy. I got wrapped up in the marketing and the hype. It was only after a set of heads was ruined (M311) and I really started following the rabbit hole of LS heads that my eyes began to open. The FED F series head is by no means the end all be all to LS stuff like their aggressive marketing and forum posting makes them out to be. Is it a bad head? No. I understand that every company advertises. They have to. But don’t let aggressive marketing and forum posting blur the line between fiction and reality. Look to see who is going fast and winning races. What’s their setup, who ported the heads, who designed the cam, who put it together, what did the engine dyno, and most importantly what is the E.T. and trap speed? This is the information you’re looking for. Follow up by researching what they tell you. I think you’d be surprised at what you find. Skip the hype, cut the BS and go straight to the source. I mean the owner of the car and or the engine builder for example. Ask them their experiences with parts and why they run what they run. Most racers and engine shops won’t mind giving you info and talking engines with you.
If you bought every part that a fan boy recommended and every part that was aggressively marketed, you’d have a $100,000, 12 second car. Do you see CID, WCCH, Mamo or BES in here constantly defending their products? Wonder why that is……….
Thread link below. Also, for you N/A guys, look at the CID headed N/A car in the FB post I'll link. If that doesn't tell you what CID is capable of, idk what will.
https://www.yellowbullet.com/threads...tings.2585197/
CID N/A car.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...72654156260101
It wasn’t that CID took it as an attack, it was the fact that the comparison wasn’t a good comparison and the information provided was misleading and it needed clarification. The engines mentioned are an apples to oranges comparison. It was Baldwin’s intention to use the same camshafts but the pistons in the motor with CID heads were not correct. The cam difference was no less than 10 degrees smaller on both the intake and exhaust side on the CID headed motor. Also the FED headed motor was set up with a customer supplied carb with bigger bores than the shop carb that was used on the CID motor. The CID headed motor also had a wet sump oil pump and the FED had a dry sump oil pump and different intakes were used. So to lead someone to believe the only differences between the motors was the heads is a gross misrepresentation of what was actually true. I want to make sure everyone here is perfectly clear on that before people get the wrong idea. And yes, if you want to know Baldwin’s opinion, you should call them.
More carb, bigger cam and a dry sump to pull vacuum on the crank case and reduce windage = more HP from the FED engine. Big surprise. So if FED wants to use this in any way to boost their product or “clout” then they’re just BS’ing you into believing something that’s not worth mentioning. Credit where credit is due, the F series head made good power. I’m simply clearing this up before someone that isn’t informed believes the F series head “stomps other castings” (thread title) because that hasn’t been proven in the least bit. In the words of Greg Good (an absolute gangster in the LS world. Research him.) “There isn't anything about the CID LS7 casting that takes a back seat to anyone, and the fact that you're buying from a stand-up guy that won't turn his back on you makes it a no-brainer.”
Before the nay-sayers jump in on this, Chris Frank himself AGREED with John at CID on these issues. Additionally, Baldwin in no way was intentionally misrepresenting these builds. Did they do a good job of relaying exactly what was going on? No. They just relayed the data they had. Someone that didn’t do their research and just blindly posted it up and thus the “Chris Frank F series LS7 heads stomps other castings” thread was born and information based on lack of facts began to spread. Looks like it’s still spreading….. Some of the people that are spreading it know better. That’s what gets me. Whatever fits the narrative I suppose.
Guys look, I used to be a FED fan boy. I got wrapped up in the marketing and the hype. It was only after a set of heads was ruined (M311) and I really started following the rabbit hole of LS heads that my eyes began to open. The FED F series head is by no means the end all be all to LS stuff like their aggressive marketing and forum posting makes them out to be. Is it a bad head? No. I understand that every company advertises. They have to. But don’t let aggressive marketing and forum posting blur the line between fiction and reality. Look to see who is going fast and winning races. What’s their setup, who ported the heads, who designed the cam, who put it together, what did the engine dyno, and most importantly what is the E.T. and trap speed? This is the information you’re looking for. Follow up by researching what they tell you. I think you’d be surprised at what you find. Skip the hype, cut the BS and go straight to the source. I mean the owner of the car and or the engine builder for example. Ask them their experiences with parts and why they run what they run. Most racers and engine shops won’t mind giving you info and talking engines with you.
If you bought every part that a fan boy recommended and every part that was aggressively marketed, you’d have a $100,000, 12 second car. Do you see CID, WCCH, Mamo or BES in here constantly defending their products? Wonder why that is……….
Thread link below. Also, for you N/A guys, look at the CID headed N/A car in the FB post I'll link. If that doesn't tell you what CID is capable of, idk what will.
https://www.yellowbullet.com/threads...tings.2585197/
CID N/A car.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...72654156260101
defend every thread or post 🤣 and Chris generally doesn't post.
Hmmm Chris wanting to take over the Ole Heads cylinder head market on heads and can put them out no matter Factory or Aftermarket? Dudes Grown in the yrs from start to now (no One has done what Chris has done since Leaving SAM)?
Yeah he's trying to Strangle the competition. You got rwhp/fwhp dyno wars and ET's seen wars...
mostly what I've seen from the F710 is typical rwhp seen or fwhp.
Decent built car just needs to be seen using there head...
8 seconds isn't Nothing Major with the correct thoughts.. Chris Frank factory Ls3 heads did that on a 418 and I'm sure the F710 is better.
Common sense.. tool for the job and we live and learn. Sorry about Helicoil valves and seats. Place the engine in a car....
I know one Damn thing 4 💩 and 4 sure the engine here with the 1st or second cam would walk down the 418 cubes that did 8.8 seconds at 13.2 compression 2780lbs. 1st cam was similar with less cubes. 🤣
Factory Ls3 heads FTW
🤣😂
🤪
Last edited by Corona; Jan 10, 2022 at 06:29 PM.
Banned
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 1,984
Likes: 682
Show results.
Paco to Chris Frank
F710 "series video" 2022 kill all Questions and BS
That's what it's all About?
From a inline Cylinder Head Lover...
Banned
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 1,984
Likes: 682
If Shabs is not Chris, then I apologize and I’ll correct my previous posts. I assumed it was Chris because he said “my place” as if he owned it. Maybe the shop has multiple owners? Or it’s everybody’s shop?
Im not entitled to give you anything. This was all done thru a business account and I’d rather not drag the business name into this goat rope.
I’m proving and have proved to people here that you are attempting to mislead people here. You just didn’t get away with it this time. The facts are out there for everyone to read. I posted the link and told them to call Baldwin personally.
You attempted to tell people that the difference was the heads that made 58 more HP and mentioned none of the other things that I listed. That is misleading. Hell, that’s the definition of misleading.
Shops around the nation have engines to build and customers to work for. They don’t have time to argue about every dyno comparison. Y’all aren’t that big lol.
I’ll be here if and when you decide to mislead people again.
Im not entitled to give you anything. This was all done thru a business account and I’d rather not drag the business name into this goat rope.
I’m proving and have proved to people here that you are attempting to mislead people here. You just didn’t get away with it this time. The facts are out there for everyone to read. I posted the link and told them to call Baldwin personally.
You attempted to tell people that the difference was the heads that made 58 more HP and mentioned none of the other things that I listed. That is misleading. Hell, that’s the definition of misleading.
Shops around the nation have engines to build and customers to work for. They don’t have time to argue about every dyno comparison. Y’all aren’t that big lol.
I’ll be here if and when you decide to mislead people again.
👍
Last edited by Corona; Jan 10, 2022 at 07:08 PM.
Banned
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 1,984
Likes: 682
Clear up ....Helicoil had the FED Mast head and 62nail had the FED CID heads...
https://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=567692
https://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=567692
13 peak HP and an average of 15ft lbs of torque gained. I don't have a dyno graph to post, but the engine went into a #2950 small tire car and went 5.60's @ 133mph to the 1/8th
