NA 417 build give me ideas
10-09-2023, 08:52 PM
#1
NA 417 build give me ideas Well something happened to the SBE 6.2 in my 65 nova and it's got to be bored now. So while I'm rebuilding I'm thinking of going with a 417 or 418. Give me some ideas. This is just a street car 7000 rpm max and drive it alot on 93 octane.
Ls3 block bored .010 , line honed, decked
k1 crank 4"
K1 h beam rods 6.125"
Wiesco pistons -8cc dish (11.8-1)
felpro 1041 hg
239/247 .625/.625 114
king bearings
Melling 10295 pump
Tfs 235 heads milled to 61cc
Fast LSXRT 102
Tb 102
Tci 1 7/8 headers
3" X pipes magnaflows
FLT lvl 5 4l60e
Yank 4000ss
8.5 10 bolt 3.42s
Car weighed 3055 with me and 3/4 tank of gas last month at LSfest.
Trying to get the car to run consistant 9s all motor on 93.
.
Ls3 block bored .010 , line honed, decked
k1 crank 4"
K1 h beam rods 6.125"
Wiesco pistons -8cc dish (11.8-1)
felpro 1041 hg
239/247 .625/.625 114
king bearings
Melling 10295 pump
Tfs 235 heads milled to 61cc
Fast LSXRT 102
Tb 102
Tci 1 7/8 headers
3" X pipes magnaflows
FLT lvl 5 4l60e
Yank 4000ss
8.5 10 bolt 3.42s
Car weighed 3055 with me and 3/4 tank of gas last month at LSfest.
Trying to get the car to run consistant 9s all motor on 93.
.
Last edited by 65LSXNOVA; 10-10-2023 at 08:36 AM.
10-09-2023, 09:56 PM
#3
sounds like you already have a solid plan. maybe a ported msd intake?, not sure how often you'll be in the 6-7k range where it would pull ahead.
same story for a llsr cam, and tfs 245's or bigger heads, anything else is pretty much just gonna favor higher and higher rpm.
same story for a llsr cam, and tfs 245's or bigger heads, anything else is pretty much just gonna favor higher and higher rpm.
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10-10-2023, 05:09 PM
#7
ModSquad
iTrader: (6)
Traction will b limited for sure with your rear rubber. It’s not a heavy car, but weight loss is equivalent to more power. You can safely go 12.2-12.4 compression on 93 octane. Set your quench at .036-.040 also for efficiency. That and an absolute perfect tune will get you 9’s capable, if it sticks. I’d suggest N20, but you need more rear tire already. Be careful out there….9’s is a dangerous place to not have enough tire….and a cage.
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rkupon1 (10-11-2023)
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10-10-2023, 05:26 PM
#8
Traction will b limited for sure with your rear rubber. It’s not a heavy car, but weight loss is equivalent to more power. You can safely go 12.2-12.4 compression on 93 octane. Set your quench at .036-.040 also for efficiency. That and an absolute perfect tune will get you 9’s capable, if it sticks. I’d suggest N20, but you need more rear tire already. Be careful out there….9’s is a dangerous place to not have enough tire….and a cage.
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Rich2342 (01-15-2024)
10-10-2023, 05:31 PM
#9
Traction will b limited for sure with your rear rubber. It’s not a heavy car, but weight loss is equivalent to more power. You can safely go 12.2-12.4 compression on 93 octane. Set your quench at .036-.040 also for efficiency. That and an absolute perfect tune will get you 9’s capable, if it sticks. I’d suggest N20, but you need more rear tire already. Be careful out there….9’s is a dangerous place to not have enough tire….and a cage.
10-10-2023, 09:34 PM
#10
ModSquad
iTrader: (6)
With the TFS heads, sure. Very efficient chamber design. I’m at 12.42 and run pump 93 exclusively with no additives, with Mamo 265 TFS heads, in the Chevelle. Of course tune is important, but if your looking for power, the tune is always important, no matter where your compression numbers are. The truth about compression is that the engine really doesn’t know or care what the static compression is. Dynamic compression is what matters (valve events) to make power, which static compression only enhances.
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DualQuadDave (10-11-2023)
10-11-2023, 01:43 AM
#11
I agree with everything chev70elle said, but i would add slap a single plane w/ a huge 4150/4500 tb on it. Even with a ported vic jr, which should fit under the hood, no prob, it will make so much more power basically everywhere except the extreme bottom end. In any old school build I do, I walk away from the plastic intakes. The injected single planes are hard to beat.
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10-11-2023, 06:31 AM
#12
I agree with everything chev70elle said, but i would add slap a single plane w/ a huge 4150/4500 tb on it. Even with a ported vic jr, which should fit under the hood, no prob, it will make so much more power basically everywhere except the extreme bottom end. In any old school build I do, I walk away from the plastic intakes. The injected single planes are hard to beat.
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10-11-2023, 08:18 AM
#13
I agree with everything chev70elle said, but i would add slap a single plane w/ a huge 4150/4500 tb on it. Even with a ported vic jr, which should fit under the hood, no prob, it will make so much more power basically everywhere except the extreme bottom end. In any old school build I do, I walk away from the plastic intakes. The injected single planes are hard to beat.
10-11-2023, 02:16 PM
#14
If you were using a "stock" LS1 or LS6 intake a single plane carburetor intake may make a few more HP at over 5000rpm, but something like an aftermarket LSXR or especially a Holley High Ram has been consistently shown to outperform a Victor Jr and carb.
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SlowTBSS (10-11-2023)
10-11-2023, 02:17 PM
#15
As far as part throttle driveability, it will be exactly the same as what you have. The intake doesn't really effect part throttle steady cruising so much, at least in a combo like yours. You could add more overlap, it'll probably like it, but if you like the cam you have, I would just swap intakes and try it to get a baseline. I would go with as much intake as you can fit. Super Vic or Holley split would be ideal, and I would port it on top of that. I can port them or I have few people I could refer you too. Go big on the throttle body, there are several choices out there to pick from, both in 4150 and 4500 flange.
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65LSXNOVA (10-11-2023)
10-11-2023, 02:33 PM
#16
I disagree with the assertion that a single plane with EFI is the best idea here. There is good reason why dry flow intakes and sequential EFI is so popular.
If you were using a "stock" LS1 or LS6 intake a single plane carburetor intake may make a few more HP at over 5000rpm, but something like an aftermarket LSXR or especially a Holley High Ram has been consistently shown to outperform a Victor Jr and carb.
If you were using a "stock" LS1 or LS6 intake a single plane carburetor intake may make a few more HP at over 5000rpm, but something like an aftermarket LSXR or especially a Holley High Ram has been consistently shown to outperform a Victor Jr and carb.
10-11-2023, 02:48 PM
#17
My personal favorite intake, and I have to stand by this because I bought one well before I needed it, because I was afraid they would stop making it, is the LSXHR with the long runners.
To be honest, I would think twice about tearing this car or engine apart. It sounds like a solid streetable combination and if you want to go faster nitrous oxide is a good option.
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65LSXNOVA (10-11-2023)
10-11-2023, 03:27 PM
#18
The video I found had a Holley High Ram out-perform a Super Victor, although just by a few HP, but it did make more torque at peak and down low. The big takeaway is that the single planes only start to out-perform the stock intake at 6400rpm, so a tenth of a second before you have to slap the shifter. The High-Ram overtook the stock intake at 5800. The effect of the single plane was identical to the short runner EFI intakes, but the best of both worlds was the tunnel-ram style intakes, as we have seen over and over in motorsport.
My personal favorite intake, and I have to stand by this because I bought one well before I needed it, because I was afraid they would stop making it, is the LSXHR with the long runners.
To be honest, I would think twice about tearing this car or engine apart. It sounds like a solid streetable combination and if you want to go faster nitrous oxide is a good option.
My personal favorite intake, and I have to stand by this because I bought one well before I needed it, because I was afraid they would stop making it, is the LSXHR with the long runners.
To be honest, I would think twice about tearing this car or engine apart. It sounds like a solid streetable combination and if you want to go faster nitrous oxide is a good option.
my engine needs bored so it's a no brainer to increase the cubic inches. Nitrous would suck *** with this combo. My ss4000 converter already flashes to 5000. It would go to 6000+on the bottle. Then I doubt the 4l60 would survive. I'm already traction limited with a 235 rear tire so adding a few hundred ft tq isn't ideal. I want to stay NA because I drive this car everywhere with the family.
Right now with the current combo if i shift at 6800 it recovers at 6000 on the next gear change. So im really looking to increase power from the 6000-7000 rpm range over what I have now. Low rpm power below 5000 isn't really a concern as I'm pretty sure with a 6.2L the car could 60ft in the low 1.3s. So if I kill off some TQ at WOT below 5000 rpms with a single plane but build a stroker I'd still expect it to 60ft in the 1.3s
10-11-2023, 03:59 PM
#19
The video I found had a Holley High Ram out-perform a Super Victor, although just by a few HP, but it did make more torque at peak and down low. The big takeaway is that the single planes only start to out-perform the stock intake at 6400rpm, so a tenth of a second before you have to slap the shifter. The High-Ram overtook the stock intake at 5800. The effect of the single plane was identical to the short runner EFI intakes, but the best of both worlds was the tunnel-ram style intakes, as we have seen over and over in motorsport.
My personal favorite intake, and I have to stand by this because I bought one well before I needed it, because I was afraid they would stop making it, is the LSXHR with the long runners.
To be honest, I would think twice about tearing this car or engine apart. It sounds like a solid streetable combination and if you want to go faster nitrous oxide is a good option.
My personal favorite intake, and I have to stand by this because I bought one well before I needed it, because I was afraid they would stop making it, is the LSXHR with the long runners.
To be honest, I would think twice about tearing this car or engine apart. It sounds like a solid streetable combination and if you want to go faster nitrous oxide is a good option.
I'm conflicted because the cam and heads are a good bit too small for the new cubic inches - but I don't want to recommend dropping 6 grand to change everything you want to reuse. Maybe reach out to some shops about having your heads opened up? Larger 2.100" intake valve, bigger port volume and a larger cam would pay dividends on a 416 and shouldn't break the bank. It will run and drive extremely well with the existing top end and cam, but I'm not sure you'll have the power you want up top. It will be torquier and have a meatier powerband, but even with a single plane you won't be breathing properly up to 7500 to be making 650+hp.
Then if you start changing intake manifolds, the combo will really shine best with a 6000 stall converter and shorter rear gears. It is a slippery slope.
For what its worth, 415 at 11.4:1 compression with a 243/257 on 110+2 made 660 flywheel with a victor jr and ported ls3 heads and has been 9.80 lifting out of a big wheelie. 3200lb race weight.
It depends what you want. With 3.42's and a 4000 stall I think you are right to keep the FAST102. Port the heads and put a bigger cam in it.
With the limited tire, a power adder would make it way easier to go consistent 9's. Nitrous is the obvious choice that you can fog in after the 60'. If you're not running on really nicely "radial" prepped tracks I don't think you'll be cutting the 1.3x 60' times you'd need to break into the 9's repeatedly, especially as you add power and torque. If you're down with adding spray I'd just keep it a 6.2L with forged rods and pistons and a stock crank and send it.
Edit - just read you're not down with spraying it lol. Disregard that part.
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