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I know he is a great salesman and probably is able to manipulate me to a degree, but I am not a dummy and the things he says make sense. He also does more testing than others, or at least advertises it more/better, such as spintron testing for the cams to assure safe but effective lobes for power, updated cam versions over time to use what works better, solid track record for springs, millions invested in canted valve heads, using powdered metal guides, etc.
This was posted on the BTR FB page for anyone interested, there are pictures and a video of dyno runs and people talking about the heads. There is also some info in the comments like the fact that these are the BTR ported versions which Brian said will be available soon.
Was a good weekend on the Dyno! We swapped out the TFS245s on the Nova for a set of BTR CV1 Heads and we are all pretty pumped about the results, picked up 150hp! 2150hp 1303ftlbs
Back in November we had the Nova on the hub dyno with a set of HIPD TFS 245s. With the 245s we had to lean on the tuneup to make 2001hp at the same 44psi, and were constantly fighting coolant pressure even after hooping them.
Switching to the Canted Valve BTR heads we picked up ~100-130hp at every boost level, and my favorite, no coolant pressure spikes. Very impressed with how these heads RPM over the 245s. At 8600+rpm the CVH-1s had a 10-15% higher VE. In most areas of the table I ended up having around 2deg less ignition in it with the CVH-1s.
I had the Plex on it this time to collect combustion data and did some correlating to how the plugs looked. The BTR heads with the longer plug and added cooling around the plug tends to keep heat out of the plug. I only had cylinder pressure sensors in #6 and #8 but that was enough to verify this split 4500 intake leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to distribution.coined it the un-equalizer
This was a pretty cool test as we tried to leave everything we could the same besides the heads themselves. The solid roller camshaft stayed the same so we designed a set of rocker stands to accept Jesel sportsman steel rockers, machined spring pockets to accept the same larger diameter springs, and so on. For those unfamiliar with the combo, its a Dart based 427, Holley split 4500 intake, un-ideal headers, and twin s485s on M1. It makes good power but we didn't make it easy on ourselves, its a heavy all steel street car with a heater and AC lol.
After the late nights getting it ready for the dyno, and I are really excited to take Nova down the track again. Now having way more confidence that we wont be driving over our own water.
Big thanksand to a bunch of guys for helping get this together, machining and putting his magic on probably the baddest set of cathedral port heads out there! for helping machine the rocker stands. for all his design and casting work, I'm glad Rick got to come watch these heads put in work on the dyno!
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Interesting, Eric said the heads came with a tag that said they'd fit a 3.780" bore, but all of BTR's info on the rec port heads say they need a minimum of a 3.820" bore.
Interesting, Eric said the heads came with a tag that said they'd fit a 3.780" bore, but all of BTR's info on the rec port heads say they need a minimum of a 3.820" bore.
I noticed that too. I have no answer and I am Far to lazy to call and see if any one can answer why.
What did Eric think of the heads? I don’t have time to watch vids….
Then No Soup For You!!!
He flowed the BTR CNC port and then he is going to come up with his own design.
These aren't designed to compete with the mosez (yeah I spelled it wrong) heads but with the geometry and factory rocker arms you can't really go over .700 lift as mentioned. With custom shaft mounts that may change.
Far superior to the OEM castings. The changes of the valve placement and use of off the shelf OEM valves and rocker arms help keep the cost down.
My self, I am looking forward to seeing how they do with just head swap. I believe they will perfom better than an oem ported head. But until they actually start circulating time will tell.
I really want to see a dyno thrash of the Edelbrock canted LS3 vs the BTR. I think EDEL discontinued the canted head, but its very similar in design. GPI had a better version. The test needs to be a BTR vs Edelbrock Canted vs ported stock LS7's on a 427 and see who wins that one.
Since it's a wish list, I would throw a LT head swapped combo in that thrash for good measure. I want to say, that's the real winner.
Katech has a 2.205" Titanium intake valve for LT1 heads. I wonder if anyone could develop a big bore program and cram the larger valves in there. That said, I think the CID headed 440 LT engines making so much power are still on a 2.125" valve so maybe not that critical?
I think the heads were designed from the outset to have the potential for larger valves on the rec port versions, which is why BTR's info on them says the cathedrals are a 3.780" minimum bore @.020" valve clearance and the rec ports are a 3.820" minimum bore. Until I see solid proof to the contrary, my assumption is the valve spacing is actually wider on the rec ports. BTR knows the majority of people going all in on a set of heads are going to use rec ports, so those ones were made to be upgraded.
I think the heads were designed from the outset to have the potential for larger valves on the rec port versions, which is why BTR's info on them says the cathedrals are a 3.780" minimum bore @.020" valve clearance and the rec ports are a 3.820" minimum bore. Until I see solid proof to the contrary, my assumption is the valve spacing is actually wider on the rec ports. BTR knows the majority of people going all in on a set of heads are going to use rec ports, so those ones were made to be upgraded.
I have been waiting for this head to come out for a long time. All the dyno comparisons I have seen so far are max effort big horsepower applications. That makes sense to showcase the product, I get it. But what I'm waiting to see is the benefit to a mild cam NA build. I remember when the AFR 205 head was new and people were posting up "head only" results. People showing HP gains with stock cam, but with really good heads. Of course the gains were smaller, but it gave you an idea of what you could gain if you pair it with your cam of choice.
IDK Eric doesn't really like the TFS 227 11r SBF heads either, those are canted 11 and 13 degree also and I just built a 434 using them, 11.6:1 pump gas with a mild Powell solid roller 250 265 0.650" lift that made 572 547 to the wheels for a road race car so the cam had to be pretty easy on things (running the stock TFS PAC hydraulic springs). I don't know how well flow tracks to max power or power under the curve, obviously some, but not 1:1
Since it's a wish list, I would throw a LT head swapped combo in that thrash for good measure. I want to say, that's the real winner.
The benefit of the LT stuff is they don't flow fuel through the port. So you don't need a huge port/valve to make power. Pretty sure the CID heads that GP uses have a smaller port than the factory castings. (might be wrong).
They tested LT heads with port injection and lost like ~60whp. I THINK that was on M1 or M5 tho. So definitely way more fuel volume through the port.
So, I have some pictures saved up I took watching Eric's YT channel. He flowed the BTR canted valve heads lately but also flowed the AFR Mongoose LS3 heads some time ago on the same Saenz flow bench with the same 4.030 bore, he doesn't have the 4.065. The AFR head was also flowed with the 4.155 bore in the 2nd row.
Also, included are stock LS3 823 castings with his minor pocket port & valve job but I'm not sure they were flowed on the same Saenz flow bench as the other 2 heads, but I think they were as Eric prefers the Saenz to the SuperFlow bench he also has which he says gives better #'s / flows more.
The AFR head is considered to be one of the best LS3 heads because it moves the intake valve like 95 thousands of the wall and closer to the exhaust valve, Eric talked about this in the AFR video. These heads were proven to make like 12 more hp up top as compared to the TFS LS3 heads which have standard valve spacing in another Richard Holdener YT comparison.
The AFR head has better flow #s everywhere but uses the stock LS3 intake valve size of 2.165 as compared to the BTR using stock Lt1 size of 2.125 Another thing worth pointing out is the fact Brian said on a recent podcast the GPI port program did better on the LS3 canted heads although that might not be the case anymore depending on whether BTR improved their port or not.
Those all-important .400 flow numbers are significantly better on the AFR head.
Coefficient of discharge people?
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