LS2 Intake & TPIS 90 vs. TPIS Mod. Intake & Oval
09-20-2004, 07:26 PM
#21
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damn interesting test, can you guys throw on a fast 90 mm intake/TPIS TB and see how it does? I bet the ls2 does better on a bigger cubed engine, after all the ls2 does have a decent bore size stock.
09-20-2004, 09:43 PM
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"Stock Heads milled to yeild 11.3 :1"
Well, there's around 15hp in compression alone. What happened to the "heads milled .010"??? That's far more than .010"...
I guess there are 101 different ways to pinch off all the extra ponies on a dyno just for numbers sake. Anyone read the "Dyno Tricks" thread? I can only hope none were used for such a comparisson. It just wouldn't be right...
Well, there's around 15hp in compression alone. What happened to the "heads milled .010"??? That's far more than .010"...
I guess there are 101 different ways to pinch off all the extra ponies on a dyno just for numbers sake. Anyone read the "Dyno Tricks" thread? I can only hope none were used for such a comparisson. It just wouldn't be right...
09-21-2004, 07:50 AM
#23
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Originally Posted by NoseUpChromeDown
"Stock Heads milled to yeild 11.3 :1"
Well, there's around 15hp in compression alone. What happened to the "heads milled .010"??? That's far more than .010"...
I guess there are 101 different ways to pinch off all the extra ponies on a dyno just for numbers sake. Anyone read the "Dyno Tricks" thread? I can only hope none were used for such a comparisson. It just wouldn't be right...
Well, there's around 15hp in compression alone. What happened to the "heads milled .010"??? That's far more than .010"...
I guess there are 101 different ways to pinch off all the extra ponies on a dyno just for numbers sake. Anyone read the "Dyno Tricks" thread? I can only hope none were used for such a comparisson. It just wouldn't be right...
spent on the intake, gaskets. 90mm throttle body. I was hoping for
a nice gain myself. If you want to try it its on e-bay for sale!
09-21-2004, 02:04 PM
#24
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Originally Posted by proautoman
I spent 6 hours fabricating the injectors and fuel rail to fit. Money
spent on the intake, gaskets. 90mm throttle body. I was hoping for
a nice gain myself. If you want to try it its on e-bay for sale!
spent on the intake, gaskets. 90mm throttle body. I was hoping for
a nice gain myself. If you want to try it its on e-bay for sale!
I sure paid for that though...No fabbing needed for the injector rail. All you needed was a few .300" shims to pick it up enough, and thicker O-rings for the injectors to fit in the larger injector bosses. Other than that, some wire to extend the plug for the MAP sensor to the front where it was relocated. Though I fabbed my own, the mount for the throttle shaft which are not molded into these, can be chopped off of ones used original LS-1 intake and epoxied to the LS-2. Throttle bodies for these aren't cheap, I know...I went with a 90mm Accufab stang 'Race' unit and just fabbed it. It was $240 compared to $480-500.
Anyway, this is off subject...Proceed...
09-21-2004, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by NoseUpChromeDown
Already ahead of you...I think I was the second fella to get his hands on one before they were even available I sure paid for that though...
No fabbing needed for the injector rail. All you needed was a few .300" shims to pick it up enough, and thicker O-rings for the injectors to fit in the larger injector bosses. Other than that, some wire to extend the plug for the MAP sensor to the front where it was relocated. Though I fabbed my own, the mount for the throttle shaft which are not molded into these, can be chopped off of ones used original LS-1 intake and epoxied to the LS-2. Throttle bodies for these aren't cheap, I know...I went with a 90mm Accufab stang 'Race' unit and just fabbed it. It was $240 compared to $480-500.
Anyway, this is off subject...Proceed...
I sure paid for that though...No fabbing needed for the injector rail. All you needed was a few .300" shims to pick it up enough, and thicker O-rings for the injectors to fit in the larger injector bosses. Other than that, some wire to extend the plug for the MAP sensor to the front where it was relocated. Though I fabbed my own, the mount for the throttle shaft which are not molded into these, can be chopped off of ones used original LS-1 intake and epoxied to the LS-2. Throttle bodies for these aren't cheap, I know...I went with a 90mm Accufab stang 'Race' unit and just fabbed it. It was $240 compared to $480-500.
Anyway, this is off subject...Proceed...
My stock fuel rails were not even close to mounting up, even with shims under the mounting tabs. The injectors won't seal on the top if you do this.
09-21-2004, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by LOnSLO
My stock fuel rails were not even close to mounting up, even with shims under the mounting tabs. The injectors won't seal on the top if you do this.
09-21-2004, 02:35 PM
#28
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Originally Posted by NoseUpChromeDown
Mine mounted up and sealed great. I find it hard to believe that any two of either rails or intakes would be any different from one another. I'm certainly not calling anyone a lier, but I couldn't explain the difference.
09-21-2004, 02:44 PM
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That's pretty durn far off I would say...Try bending the mounts on the rail up approx. .300" and then flush to to the intake mounting points. You'll probably have to slot the mounting holes a tad with a drill, but this would definitely be another way of doing it. I don't imagine it would take long to do either.
I still can't figure out why everything of mine mated and sealed with ease, and you guys are having trouble with clearances. I quadruple checked everything to ensure fitment and seal...Unexplainable I guess...
I still can't figure out why everything of mine mated and sealed with ease, and you guys are having trouble with clearances. I quadruple checked everything to ensure fitment and seal...Unexplainable I guess...
09-21-2004, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by TPiS
Just something to chew on..still need to try it on other combinations obviously. This is a test done on a 98 C5 auto. Modifications are Blackwing, TPIS headers, TPIS Muffler system, 1.85 Rockers, and heads milled .010, and programming. Stock cam & no porting.
LS2 Intake & TPIS 90 MM TB
-393 RWHP @ 6200
-373 RWTQ @5100
-257-354 RWTQ 2900-3900 RPM
-356-371 RWTQ 4000-5000 RPM
-373-338 RWTQ 5100-6100 RPM
TPIS LS6 Intake & TPIS Oval TB
-402 RWHP @ 6000 RPM
-393 RWTQ @ 4800 RPM
-330-369 RWTQ 2900-3900 RPM
-375-387 RWTQ 4000-5000 RPM
-387-343 RWTQ 5100-6100 RPM
Both combinations were programmed for best power etc....
As you can see the LS2 Intake doesn't offer any power gains on this engine combination over the TPIS LS6 Intake and Oval Throttle Body (less throttle area). You'll notice there are some fairly large diffences in torque everywhere. I would assume most people are wanting to try this intake on the larger engines and we are too. Just some preliminary info until we get more cominations in the works. For the F-Body guys, our 90 MM TB could be run with the LS2 intake if it proves to be a worthwhile investment.
Jim Hall
TPIS
952-448-6021
LS2 Intake & TPIS 90 MM TB
-393 RWHP @ 6200
-373 RWTQ @5100
-257-354 RWTQ 2900-3900 RPM
-356-371 RWTQ 4000-5000 RPM
-373-338 RWTQ 5100-6100 RPM
TPIS LS6 Intake & TPIS Oval TB
-402 RWHP @ 6000 RPM
-393 RWTQ @ 4800 RPM
-330-369 RWTQ 2900-3900 RPM
-375-387 RWTQ 4000-5000 RPM
-387-343 RWTQ 5100-6100 RPM
Both combinations were programmed for best power etc....
As you can see the LS2 Intake doesn't offer any power gains on this engine combination over the TPIS LS6 Intake and Oval Throttle Body (less throttle area). You'll notice there are some fairly large diffences in torque everywhere. I would assume most people are wanting to try this intake on the larger engines and we are too. Just some preliminary info until we get more cominations in the works. For the F-Body guys, our 90 MM TB could be run with the LS2 intake if it proves to be a worthwhile investment.
Jim Hall
TPIS
952-448-6021
thanks for posting this
I have looked for pricing info on your site for the modified LS6 with TPIS throttle body and couldnt find it.
Could you post pricing information?
Also do you port match the intake runners as well? (if someone was to send you port volume info?)
09-21-2004, 03:10 PM
#31
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Originally Posted by NoseUpChromeDown
That's pretty durn far off I would say...Try bending the mounts on the rail up approx. .300" and then flush to to the intake mounting points. You'll probably have to slot the mounting holes a tad with a drill, but this would definitely be another way of doing it. I don't imagine it would take long to do either.
I still can't figure out why everything of mine mated and sealed with ease, and you guys are having trouble with clearances. I quadruple checked everything to ensure fitment and seal...Unexplainable I guess...
I still can't figure out why everything of mine mated and sealed with ease, and you guys are having trouble with clearances. I quadruple checked everything to ensure fitment and seal...Unexplainable I guess...
11-24-2004, 09:17 AM
#32
Hey TPiS, any updates? Have you done any before/after tests between an LS6 intake with a ported stock TB and the LS6 intake with TPiS Oval TB?
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
11-24-2004, 12:18 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by Patrick G
Hey TPiS, any updates? Have you done any before/after tests between an LS6 intake with a ported stock TB and the LS6 intake with TPiS Oval TB?
on an 346 you will see about 5 to 9 hp with a ported tb over a stock tb.
the oval over a ported tb on a stock head and cam you will see an additional 10hp for a total gain of around 18 although i have gotten as much as 22 hp
there is no loss of low end.
myron
11-24-2004, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by JS
What about testing your Oval against an LSX...
on 346's through modest cammed 383's the TPIS oval will out perform the fast intake in torque production and match the hp number. the torque number in the lower rpm range will be about 20 lb ft. larger than the LSX.
if you put a larger cam in the 383 all the way up to the large cid combinations the LSX is a better choice. we make the 90 mm throttles that many tuners are using.
the throttle response of the oval is hard to describe, my ZO-6 is an all bore 383 with our oval. people who have ridden and driven it swear that its a 434 cid.
myron c
11-24-2004, 12:35 PM
#36
Great info. Glad to see you checking out the board Myron.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
11-24-2004, 12:51 PM
#37
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Originally Posted by Patrick G
Great info. Glad to see you checking out the board Myron.
we are trying to be informative, not easy to do with some of the self appointed critics. i have been doing this for over 40 years. It is our policy to understate the gains our products produce. I noticed that there was a reponse to a post that jimmy put up. that said bullshit to some dyno numbers.
you don't stay in business this long overstateing performance
This year we won our second ASA championship with country joe racing.
i did the tuning.
we also won the
SCCA T2 championship with TEAM Salad giving Cadillac it's first win in a stock class. the year before the same team with a pontiac won the T2 championship. this was a full engine program.
myron c.
11-24-2004, 01:11 PM
#38
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Myron,
Have you read my results with the LS2 Intake?
Here is a link. https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iv-internal-engine/241304-track-results-ls2-intake.html
With the info you just posted I am leaning towards sending you an LS6 intake to modify and selling my TPIS 90 to buy the Oval TB. I was planning on doing some tests with a 90mm LSX intake but that will be a few weeks before I can get it from my friend to try it out. Obviously you have already done this.
Do you have a Bellows for an F body to work with the oval TB?
What is the turn around time for the Intake?
Thanks!
Brad
Have you read my results with the LS2 Intake?
Here is a link. https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iv-internal-engine/241304-track-results-ls2-intake.html
With the info you just posted I am leaning towards sending you an LS6 intake to modify and selling my TPIS 90 to buy the Oval TB. I was planning on doing some tests with a 90mm LSX intake but that will be a few weeks before I can get it from my friend to try it out. Obviously you have already done this.
Do you have a Bellows for an F body to work with the oval TB?
What is the turn around time for the Intake?
Thanks!
Brad
11-24-2004, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by SquintzPallatore
Myron,
Have you read my results with the LS2 Intake?
Here is a link. https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241304
With the info you just posted I am leaning towards sending you an LS6 intake to modify and selling my TPIS 90 to buy the Oval TB. I was planning on doing some tests with a 90mm LSX intake but that will be a few weeks before I can get it from my friend to try it out. Obviously you have already done this.
Do you have a Bellows for an F body to work with the oval TB?
What is the turn around time for the Intake?
Thanks!
Brad
Have you read my results with the LS2 Intake?
Here is a link. https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241304
With the info you just posted I am leaning towards sending you an LS6 intake to modify and selling my TPIS 90 to buy the Oval TB. I was planning on doing some tests with a 90mm LSX intake but that will be a few weeks before I can get it from my friend to try it out. Obviously you have already done this.
Do you have a Bellows for an F body to work with the oval TB?
What is the turn around time for the Intake?
Thanks!
Brad
your stock bellows will fit the TPIS oval. We can turn the intake in two days
mc
