2006 or 2007 Camaro
06-24-2005, 03:38 PM
#81
Originally Posted by greatskiiiier
dont have time to read the posts, but here are some sites and pictures...
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/fea...409phr_camaro/
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/fea...09phr_5camaro/
http://blogsimages.skynet.be/images/...51f1652293.JPG
http://www.uberchad.net/albums/2007Camaro/comaroz28.jpg
http://forums.autoweek.com/servlet/J...2007camaro.jpg
http://tiger.towson.edu/~wchalk1/mafba/news.htm
http://myitforum.techtarget.com/blog...1/03/1210.aspx
ive been told its going to be an LS2 or LS7 as well, dont no if those links will work, but u can copy and paste them if not
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/fea...409phr_camaro/
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/fea...09phr_5camaro/
http://blogsimages.skynet.be/images/...51f1652293.JPG
http://www.uberchad.net/albums/2007Camaro/comaroz28.jpg
http://forums.autoweek.com/servlet/J...2007camaro.jpg
http://tiger.towson.edu/~wchalk1/mafba/news.htm
http://myitforum.techtarget.com/blog...1/03/1210.aspx
ive been told its going to be an LS2 or LS7 as well, dont no if those links will work, but u can copy and paste them if not
Old old stuff from auto rags and speculation.... they print that stuff so you will buy the next issue
06-24-2005, 09:23 PM
#82
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Originally Posted by slt200mph
GTO puts me to sleep...boring, boring, boring not to mention over weight and slow..who ever thinks the Beemer customers are going to go look at the Pontiac GTSlow are dreaming
My store manager where I used to work traded in his Mercedes for a GTO
06-25-2005, 11:24 AM
#83
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I wouldn't call my ideas about the new Camaro Fantasy just yet. As far as we all know there could be a whole lot that Scott Didn't say or that he didn't even know about because it hasn't been discused. By the way the curb weight of that 04 Z06 was 3118 not 3045...not to be a nit picker or anything but hey I want to come to your island
.
The truth is, is that GM has the Wixom Plant for a reason, and while they may have alot on their plate with reguards to the current Z06 and the up comming supercharged northstar that dose not mean that they can't use it to build other motors for up comming cars. These engines are incredibly "modular...can I use that term here?" which makes it just as easy to swap parts out in one motor to a another.
SLT, while I agree with your knowledge that a drysump prevents oil starving at great ammounts of lateral accel. Your not entirely correct. A dry sump does indeed offer performance benifits. Drag racing has been using them for quite some time because it keeps a more manageable supply of oil going to the pistons, rods, crank, and valvetrain of higher output, higher reving motors. A dry sump in it's simplest form does a great job of keep the the oil from pooling up under the crank and keeping the counter weights from having to cut through it. It aslo keeps the oil from getting aerated under lots of RPMs. So yes the dry sump does have alot to do with the performance. A dry sump also uses an additional accesory slot for the pump which adds to the cost of the motor even more especially if that pump is to be light wieght.
A majority of the cost in the LS-7 is in the internals. With the use of Titanium everything there is no wonder it more expensive. The use of those materials was necessary for the engine to achive several goals: 1. To be able to rev to 7200 RPM, 2. To be reliable when it does..which it will, 3. To be light.
By taking out those components you are left with a block and some heads....a block that was based off of the C5R block...which was very close to an LS6..just had some extras like hardended steel main caps little bit larger bore and of coarse the stroke. The heads are losely based off of the C5/ C6 R head technology. So how would GM build a 427 for a camaro, quite easily. Take the dry sump off, build the motor with components closer to the LS2, and lower the effective RPM range with different springs retainers....yadda yadda. All of these parts could be scavenged from an LS-2. A 427 with LS2 heads and normal internals and so forth is entirely doable.
I for one hope that GM understands their threat from Ford and answers it...if they can't keep up with the new GT-500 they might as well forget about it. Everyone is interested in a new Camaro, but at the end of the day they don't want to just be faster than a GT mustang...they want to take out those pesky snakes with 500 HP...and do it for the same price. If GM can't do that they need to forget the whole thing.
.The truth is, is that GM has the Wixom Plant for a reason, and while they may have alot on their plate with reguards to the current Z06 and the up comming supercharged northstar that dose not mean that they can't use it to build other motors for up comming cars. These engines are incredibly "modular...can I use that term here?" which makes it just as easy to swap parts out in one motor to a another.
SLT, while I agree with your knowledge that a drysump prevents oil starving at great ammounts of lateral accel. Your not entirely correct. A dry sump does indeed offer performance benifits. Drag racing has been using them for quite some time because it keeps a more manageable supply of oil going to the pistons, rods, crank, and valvetrain of higher output, higher reving motors. A dry sump in it's simplest form does a great job of keep the the oil from pooling up under the crank and keeping the counter weights from having to cut through it. It aslo keeps the oil from getting aerated under lots of RPMs. So yes the dry sump does have alot to do with the performance. A dry sump also uses an additional accesory slot for the pump which adds to the cost of the motor even more especially if that pump is to be light wieght.
A majority of the cost in the LS-7 is in the internals. With the use of Titanium everything there is no wonder it more expensive. The use of those materials was necessary for the engine to achive several goals: 1. To be able to rev to 7200 RPM, 2. To be reliable when it does..which it will, 3. To be light.
By taking out those components you are left with a block and some heads....a block that was based off of the C5R block...which was very close to an LS6..just had some extras like hardended steel main caps little bit larger bore and of coarse the stroke. The heads are losely based off of the C5/ C6 R head technology. So how would GM build a 427 for a camaro, quite easily. Take the dry sump off, build the motor with components closer to the LS2, and lower the effective RPM range with different springs retainers....yadda yadda. All of these parts could be scavenged from an LS-2. A 427 with LS2 heads and normal internals and so forth is entirely doable.
I for one hope that GM understands their threat from Ford and answers it...if they can't keep up with the new GT-500 they might as well forget about it. Everyone is interested in a new Camaro, but at the end of the day they don't want to just be faster than a GT mustang...they want to take out those pesky snakes with 500 HP...and do it for the same price. If GM can't do that they need to forget the whole thing.
06-25-2005, 11:25 AM
#84
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By the way I don't read those rags called Car and Driver, or the like...they have never been right about anything. They just trump up bogus info to sell mags. Honestly they know very little about the cars that I am interested in.
06-25-2005, 01:22 PM
#85
Originally Posted by Whitten
I wouldn't call my ideas about the new Camaro Fantasy just yet. As far as we all know there could be a whole lot that Scott Didn't say or that he didn't even know about because it hasn't been discused. By the way the curb weight of that 04 Z06 was 3118 not 3045...not to be a nit picker or anything but hey I want to come to your island.
The truth is, is that GM has the Wixom Plant for a reason, and while they may have alot on their plate with reguards to the current Z06 and the up comming supercharged northstar that dose not mean that they can't use it to build other motors for up comming cars. These engines are incredibly "modular...can I use that term here?" which makes it just as easy to swap parts out in one motor to a another.
SLT, while I agree with your knowledge that a drysump prevents oil starving at great ammounts of lateral accel. Your not entirely correct. A dry sump does indeed offer performance benifits. Drag racing has been using them for quite some time because it keeps a more manageable supply of oil going to the pistons, rods, crank, and valvetrain of higher output, higher reving motors. A dry sump in it's simplest form does a great job of keep the the oil from pooling up under the crank and keeping the counter weights from having to cut through it. It aslo keeps the oil from getting aerated under lots of RPMs. So yes the dry sump does have alot to do with the performance. A dry sump also uses an additional accesory slot for the pump which adds to the cost of the motor even more especially if that pump is to be light wieght.
A majority of the cost in the LS-7 is in the internals. With the use of Titanium everything there is no wonder it more expensive. The use of those materials was necessary for the engine to achive several goals: 1. To be able to rev to 7200 RPM, 2. To be reliable when it does..which it will, 3. To be light.
By taking out those components you are left with a block and some heads....a block that was based off of the C5R block...which was very close to an LS6..just had some extras like hardended steel main caps little bit larger bore and of coarse the stroke. The heads are losely based off of the C5/ C6 R head technology. So how would GM build a 427 for a camaro, quite easily. Take the dry sump off, build the motor with components closer to the LS2, and lower the effective RPM range with different springs retainers....yadda yadda. All of these parts could be scavenged from an LS-2. A 427 with LS2 heads and normal internals and so forth is entirely doable.
I for one hope that GM understands their threat from Ford and answers it...if they can't keep up with the new GT-500 they might as well forget about it. Everyone is interested in a new Camaro, but at the end of the day they don't want to just be faster than a GT mustang...they want to take out those pesky snakes with 500 HP...and do it for the same price. If GM can't do that they need to forget the whole thing.
.The truth is, is that GM has the Wixom Plant for a reason, and while they may have alot on their plate with reguards to the current Z06 and the up comming supercharged northstar that dose not mean that they can't use it to build other motors for up comming cars. These engines are incredibly "modular...can I use that term here?" which makes it just as easy to swap parts out in one motor to a another.
SLT, while I agree with your knowledge that a drysump prevents oil starving at great ammounts of lateral accel. Your not entirely correct. A dry sump does indeed offer performance benifits. Drag racing has been using them for quite some time because it keeps a more manageable supply of oil going to the pistons, rods, crank, and valvetrain of higher output, higher reving motors. A dry sump in it's simplest form does a great job of keep the the oil from pooling up under the crank and keeping the counter weights from having to cut through it. It aslo keeps the oil from getting aerated under lots of RPMs. So yes the dry sump does have alot to do with the performance. A dry sump also uses an additional accesory slot for the pump which adds to the cost of the motor even more especially if that pump is to be light wieght.
A majority of the cost in the LS-7 is in the internals. With the use of Titanium everything there is no wonder it more expensive. The use of those materials was necessary for the engine to achive several goals: 1. To be able to rev to 7200 RPM, 2. To be reliable when it does..which it will, 3. To be light.
By taking out those components you are left with a block and some heads....a block that was based off of the C5R block...which was very close to an LS6..just had some extras like hardended steel main caps little bit larger bore and of coarse the stroke. The heads are losely based off of the C5/ C6 R head technology. So how would GM build a 427 for a camaro, quite easily. Take the dry sump off, build the motor with components closer to the LS2, and lower the effective RPM range with different springs retainers....yadda yadda. All of these parts could be scavenged from an LS-2. A 427 with LS2 heads and normal internals and so forth is entirely doable.
I for one hope that GM understands their threat from Ford and answers it...if they can't keep up with the new GT-500 they might as well forget about it. Everyone is interested in a new Camaro, but at the end of the day they don't want to just be faster than a GT mustang...they want to take out those pesky snakes with 500 HP...and do it for the same price. If GM can't do that they need to forget the whole thing.
My island delivers 50 new Covettes a month..I don't know what yours does other than fantasize ..would you like to bet on what the actual shipping weight of the 2004 Z06 was? I have an invoice in my hand. The invoice has the shipping weight on it because the transport company that hauls it from the factory to its final destination has to know the exact weight . Those trucks go accross DOT scales and are weighed. Still want to bet?? Didn't think so.
Last edited by slt200mph; 06-25-2005 at 01:59 PM.
06-25-2005, 01:39 PM
#86
Originally Posted by Whitten
I wouldn't call my ideas about the new Camaro Fantasy just yet. As far as we all know there could be a whole lot that Scott Didn't say or that he didn't even know about because it hasn't been discused. By the way the curb weight of that 04 Z06 was 3118 not 3045...not to be a nit picker or anything but hey I want to come to your island.
The truth is, is that GM has the Wixom Plant for a reason, and while they may have alot on their plate with reguards to the current Z06 and the up comming supercharged northstar that dose not mean that they can't use it to build other motors for up comming cars. These engines are incredibly "modular...can I use that term here?" which makes it just as easy to swap parts out in one motor to a another.
SLT, while I agree with your knowledge that a drysump prevents oil starving at great ammounts of lateral accel. Your not entirely correct. A dry sump does indeed offer performance benifits. Drag racing has been using them for quite some time because it keeps a more manageable supply of oil going to the pistons, rods, crank, and valvetrain of higher output, higher reving motors. A dry sump in it's simplest form does a great job of keep the the oil from pooling up under the crank and keeping the counter weights from having to cut through it. It aslo keeps the oil from getting aerated under lots of RPMs. So yes the dry sump does have alot to do with the performance. A dry sump also uses an additional accesory slot for the pump which adds to the cost of the motor even more especially if that pump is to be light wieght.
A majority of the cost in the LS-7 is in the internals. With the use of Titanium everything there is no wonder it more expensive. The use of those materials was necessary for the engine to achive several goals: 1. To be able to rev to 7200 RPM, 2. To be reliable when it does..which it will, 3. To be light.
By taking out those components you are left with a block and some heads....a block that was based off of the C5R block...which was very close to an LS6..just had some extras like hardended steel main caps little bit larger bore and of coarse the stroke. The heads are losely based off of the C5/ C6 R head technology. So how would GM build a 427 for a camaro, quite easily. Take the dry sump off, build the motor with components closer to the LS2, and lower the effective RPM range with different springs retainers....yadda yadda. All of these parts could be scavenged from an LS-2. A 427 with LS2 heads and normal internals and so forth is entirely doable.
I for one hope that GM understands their threat from Ford and answers it...if they can't keep up with the new GT-500 they might as well forget about it. Everyone is interested in a new Camaro, but at the end of the day they don't want to just be faster than a GT mustang...they want to take out those pesky snakes with 500 HP...and do it for the same price. If GM can't do that they need to forget the whole thing.
.The truth is, is that GM has the Wixom Plant for a reason, and while they may have alot on their plate with reguards to the current Z06 and the up comming supercharged northstar that dose not mean that they can't use it to build other motors for up comming cars. These engines are incredibly "modular...can I use that term here?" which makes it just as easy to swap parts out in one motor to a another.
SLT, while I agree with your knowledge that a drysump prevents oil starving at great ammounts of lateral accel. Your not entirely correct. A dry sump does indeed offer performance benifits. Drag racing has been using them for quite some time because it keeps a more manageable supply of oil going to the pistons, rods, crank, and valvetrain of higher output, higher reving motors. A dry sump in it's simplest form does a great job of keep the the oil from pooling up under the crank and keeping the counter weights from having to cut through it. It aslo keeps the oil from getting aerated under lots of RPMs. So yes the dry sump does have alot to do with the performance. A dry sump also uses an additional accesory slot for the pump which adds to the cost of the motor even more especially if that pump is to be light wieght.
A majority of the cost in the LS-7 is in the internals. With the use of Titanium everything there is no wonder it more expensive. The use of those materials was necessary for the engine to achive several goals: 1. To be able to rev to 7200 RPM, 2. To be reliable when it does..which it will, 3. To be light.
By taking out those components you are left with a block and some heads....a block that was based off of the C5R block...which was very close to an LS6..just had some extras like hardended steel main caps little bit larger bore and of coarse the stroke. The heads are losely based off of the C5/ C6 R head technology. So how would GM build a 427 for a camaro, quite easily. Take the dry sump off, build the motor with components closer to the LS2, and lower the effective RPM range with different springs retainers....yadda yadda. All of these parts could be scavenged from an LS-2. A 427 with LS2 heads and normal internals and so forth is entirely doable.
I for one hope that GM understands their threat from Ford and answers it...if they can't keep up with the new GT-500 they might as well forget about it. Everyone is interested in a new Camaro, but at the end of the day they don't want to just be faster than a GT mustang...they want to take out those pesky snakes with 500 HP...and do it for the same price. If GM can't do that they need to forget the whole thing.
If you check the botton side of the LS1, LS6, LS2 engine you will find a windage tray..
...it allows a little more HP and does what a dry sump does but will not prevent oil starvation...yada yada yada..you are boring me with the reguritating of parts and specs and how a dry sump works..tell me something I do not know if you would like to keep my attention....when you have spent as much time in the biz as I have come back and talk to me...take this to the bank ...Wixon will not build the F body's replacment motor..I'll make a wager with you on that one too..Scott is not my only sourse of info, like said I've been in this biz a long time...FYI the LS6 block and the C5R block have a number of differences..that is the reason in the large difference in their prices....Geeeze I could spend all afternoon picking apart this last post of yours..but I am bored with it and I am finished trying to educate you for this day..I'm out Last edited by slt200mph; 06-25-2005 at 01:57 PM.
06-25-2005, 01:42 PM
#87
Originally Posted by Beast
My store manager where I used to work traded in his Mercedes for a GTO
That is the exception to the rule...you have not seen a mass exodus from the Benz and BMW ranks to the GTSlow..he traded a slow one for another slow one with dull styling...
06-25-2005, 01:45 PM
#88
Originally Posted by Whitten
By the way I don't read those rags called Car and Driver, or the like...they have never been right about anything. They just trump up bogus info to sell mags. Honestly they know very little about the cars that I am interested in.
Kinda like that crap you posted up a few posts back right...photos drawn by a kid in Iowa, lies, half truths, and speculation that what sells their next issue
06-25-2005, 04:12 PM
#89
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Originally Posted by slt200mph
Kinda like that crap you posted up a few posts back right...photos drawn by a kid in Iowa, lies, half truths, and speculation that what sells their next issue
I didn't post any photos....or any info that came from any other web sites. The info that I have posted is pure speculation my own part...I would never play the game of Telephone like so many have in the past. That is why I word things the way I do. Stuff like " I could very possibly see, or I honestly believe," those don't in any way represent info that I have gotten anywhere else...those are my own thoughts. If they represent anything similar than goodie for anyone else.
I know for a fact that I didn't post any photos of a concept...as far I am concerned until I get a spy photo like I did of the Shelby car, I will just have to wait and see. What would make you think I posted up someone elses info or pictures?
06-25-2005, 04:23 PM
#90
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Originally Posted by slt200mph
If you check the botton side of the LS1, LS6, LS2 engine you will find a windage tray.. ...it allows a little more HP and does what a dry sump does but will not prevent oil starvation...yada yada yada..you are boring me with the reguritating of parts and specs and how a dry sump works..tell me something I do not know if you would like to keep my attention....when you have spent as much time in the biz as I have come back and talk to me...take this to the bank ...Wixon will not build the F body's replacment motor..I'll make a wager with you on that one too..Scott is not my only sourse of info, like said I've been in this biz a long time...FYI the LS6 block and the C5R block have a number of differences..that is the reason in the large difference in their prices....Geeeze I could spend all afternoon picking apart this last post of yours..but I am bored with it and I am finished trying to educate you for this day..I'm out
...it allows a little more HP and does what a dry sump does but will not prevent oil starvation...yada yada yada..you are boring me with the reguritating of parts and specs and how a dry sump works..tell me something I do not know if you would like to keep my attention....when you have spent as much time in the biz as I have come back and talk to me...take this to the bank ...Wixon will not build the F body's replacment motor..I'll make a wager with you on that one too..Scott is not my only sourse of info, like said I've been in this biz a long time...FYI the LS6 block and the C5R block have a number of differences..that is the reason in the large difference in their prices....Geeeze I could spend all afternoon picking apart this last post of yours..but I am bored with it and I am finished trying to educate you for this day..I'm out I have my own sources as well as plenty of experience. Honestly, you really don't impress me with your attitude and it is really getting to the point that I am goint to ignore your posts. I'm am not going to comment on the windage tray past the fact that if windage trays were all you you would need then every pro 5.0 car out there would use them. Aside from the fact that I can get you a data sheet from our Formula SAE teams read out and dyno sessions proving the advantages. I know the differences about the blocks I have seen more of them in one room than most saw at the foundry at any one time. I was making a point about the similiarities. As for the ZO6 I have personally weighed one on a dot scale before going to the track with an 1/4 of a tank it weighed in at 3210. That was bone stock, with no driver. Your Lading bill is going to give you a weight of the entire trailor, the gas in the tank of the truck yadda yadda...now I am board. I know you think you are hot stuff, but you ought to realize there are others out there that have been at it for as long, or know just as much as you. Scott Settlemire and I have talked too... but I am not going to get cocky about. I have hung out with the guys at GMMG quite a bit, I know them well and we have done alot of business with them. I talk the Lamar Walden's boys more than that and know two guys over there quite well. I don't think trying to school me up is going to do much...you would be teaching me stuff I already know.
06-25-2005, 05:32 PM
#92
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slt and witten, yall both seem to know yalls stuff. quit making this about yall and put facts. its great that yall are involved with the industry. contribute to the topic
06-25-2005, 07:42 PM
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Why is everyone hating on the GTO? The 05 GTO stock for stock is every bit as fast as my Formula WS6 and taking inflation into account isn't that much more expensive. The 2-3k more(again after inflation) is worth it for the superior build quality. As for the looks it's a trade off, there are few cars if any out there that have ever looked as mean as the WS6, but the interior is another matter. What do you spend more time doing, sitting outside your car staring at it, or driving IN it? Point here the GTO is right on par with all of our cars, again stock for stock.
06-26-2005, 11:03 AM
#94
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Originally Posted by Phoenix57
slt and witten, yall both seem to know yalls stuff. quit making this about yall and put facts. its great that yall are involved with the industry. contribute to the topic
10/4 I agree...I think all we are going to do is irritate each other. Your right we both know our stuff...so it is pointless to argue
. I will call a truce, there is no need for me to get irritated or for me to do anything that would irritate him.I will try and find some solid info as soon as I can talk to a few of my friends in the know. Who knows what GM will come up with here in the next couple of months.
06-26-2005, 12:21 PM
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We can all sit here and drop names and little fast facts and act like we know all. Well, I can't...........don't know any names or many facts, except that it sure would be nice to see the Firebirds and Camaros return. We'll always have the "half empty, half full" crowds......not sure why things turn into arguments when I'm sure NONE of the people posting know the true facts.
06-26-2005, 03:33 PM
#96
Originally Posted by slt200mph
That is the exception to the rule...you have not seen a mass exodus from the Benz and BMW ranks to the GTSlow..he traded a slow one for another slow one with dull styling...
Last edited by 93Polo; 06-26-2005 at 03:41 PM.
06-27-2005, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by slt200mph
Another fantasy island dweller..geeeze..put down the pipe and step back from it..where do these people come from.. 
..you are having some serious delusions or you will beleive anything you hear....would you like to wager some $$$ on a the Camaro bieng built in the Corvette plant or on the Corvette chassis...make it EZ onyourself now becasue I am going to take your money... 
..you are having some serious delusions or you will beleive anything you hear....would you like to wager some $$$ on a the Camaro bieng built in the Corvette plant or on the Corvette chassis...make it EZ onyourself now becasue I am going to take your money... 