LS9 DOHC / LS8 / And end of life for LS7
07-14-2006, 09:42 AM
#301
Originally Posted by 02SOMWS6
Heres the best part, the single overdead cam set up in the LS7 is going to be considered out dated. That means prices will drop on LS7 stuff. I don't know about you guys but I don't need to be that high tech and will love to see the prices drop.
GM is not going to build an over head cam LSx motor..they are commited to the cam in block design and now with the active fuel management (DOD)capibility that is designed into these blocks they will get even better fuel ecomomy..they designed the engine to be used in cars, trucks, and sports cars...GM is broke right now they are not going to spend a bunch of money on a small volume speciality engine for a smll production run..they will use the technology that they already have..the LSx series is here to stay in one form or another...
07-18-2006, 05:46 PM
#302
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I do not think I have ever seen so many people argue so fervently with so little real information.
Wanna check efficiency? Look at the brake specific fuel consumption of the engine in question. This is how much fuel in pounds it takes to make one HP for one hour.N/A motors are almost always more efficient than FI motors. All you have to do is look at the AF ratios people are using on this board to see that. Most FI motors are in the .6 range highly optimized engines can get down into the low.4 range.
SOURCE:
http://www.answers.com/topic/brake-s...el-consumption
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSFC
http://www.diracdelta.co.uk/science/...on/source.html
Wanna know which engine is cheaper to produce? Look at the replacement cost for the engine. This informatrion is available from EVERY manufacturer as almost every engine ever produced has broken for some reason and has needed to be replaced. The replacement cost of an LT5 engine years ago whent they were still available was around $23,000. A new LS2 engine can be obtained for $5,500.What's the replacement cost for a BMW V-10 found in the M5 for the V-8 used in the previoius gen M5? How about the cost of the AJ currently found in Jags and LR's.
I suggest if you are going to say which motor is lighter or physically smaller you offer these dimensions instead of just assuming. A good example of this is J-Rods post a bad example is almost everyone else.
EXAMPLE:
Information is from :Chevy LS1/LS6 V-8's by Will Handzel
Page 23 and page 27
Block Length: 20.43 in(519mm)
Block width: 18.11 (460mm)
Block Deck Height:9.24in
Cylinder Bank Offset: .9488in
WEIGHT: 430lbs for a complete LS1
Subjective Argument:If the Ford mod motor isn't one of the best in the world why was it used by Koenigsegg and Panoz?
It's not that great in theory but it works like hell in the real world. Cost,availability,factory support, and power potential all come into play. Why would Koenigsegg a company that charges serious money for their car.Cars that are designed for all out supercar supremacy use the Ford V8 if it was the worst DOHC motor available?
OPINION:I would venture if the pushrod motor wasn't perceived by the ignorant as low tech that Panoz and Koenigsegg and their ilk would consider the GM GENIII/IV engines for use in their vehicles.
HP/Liter means NOTHING. NOTHING. When has this arbitrary number been good for anything other than benchracing? Show me ONE objective area where this number can be used. HP/Dollar and HP/weight are far more useful as those numbers actually apply to things we as enthusiasts and companies care about.
EXAMPLE:
Will HP/liter tell you how much better a vehicle MIGHT accelerate when a motorswap occurs? HP/Weight of engine will.
Will HP/liter tell you how much more or less your vehicle will cost to produce? HP/per dollar will.
PLEASE Provide a meaningful example of how HP/liter can be used when considering an unlike engine swap.
In regards to an earlier post :I must be mistaken because I thought F1 engines used pneumatic valve actuation not a dual overhead camshaft arrangement.
Sources
http://world.honda.com/F1/spec/
http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1222194
According to those I would be corerct wouldn't I?
Wanna check efficiency? Look at the brake specific fuel consumption of the engine in question. This is how much fuel in pounds it takes to make one HP for one hour.N/A motors are almost always more efficient than FI motors. All you have to do is look at the AF ratios people are using on this board to see that. Most FI motors are in the .6 range highly optimized engines can get down into the low.4 range.
SOURCE:
http://www.answers.com/topic/brake-s...el-consumption
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSFC
http://www.diracdelta.co.uk/science/...on/source.html
Wanna know which engine is cheaper to produce? Look at the replacement cost for the engine. This informatrion is available from EVERY manufacturer as almost every engine ever produced has broken for some reason and has needed to be replaced. The replacement cost of an LT5 engine years ago whent they were still available was around $23,000. A new LS2 engine can be obtained for $5,500.What's the replacement cost for a BMW V-10 found in the M5 for the V-8 used in the previoius gen M5? How about the cost of the AJ currently found in Jags and LR's.
I suggest if you are going to say which motor is lighter or physically smaller you offer these dimensions instead of just assuming. A good example of this is J-Rods post a bad example is almost everyone else.
EXAMPLE:
Information is from :Chevy LS1/LS6 V-8's by Will Handzel
Page 23 and page 27
Block Length: 20.43 in(519mm)
Block width: 18.11 (460mm)
Block Deck Height:9.24in
Cylinder Bank Offset: .9488in
WEIGHT: 430lbs for a complete LS1
Subjective Argument:If the Ford mod motor isn't one of the best in the world why was it used by Koenigsegg and Panoz?
It's not that great in theory but it works like hell in the real world. Cost,availability,factory support, and power potential all come into play. Why would Koenigsegg a company that charges serious money for their car.Cars that are designed for all out supercar supremacy use the Ford V8 if it was the worst DOHC motor available?
OPINION:I would venture if the pushrod motor wasn't perceived by the ignorant as low tech that Panoz and Koenigsegg and their ilk would consider the GM GENIII/IV engines for use in their vehicles.
HP/Liter means NOTHING. NOTHING. When has this arbitrary number been good for anything other than benchracing? Show me ONE objective area where this number can be used. HP/Dollar and HP/weight are far more useful as those numbers actually apply to things we as enthusiasts and companies care about.
EXAMPLE:
Will HP/liter tell you how much better a vehicle MIGHT accelerate when a motorswap occurs? HP/Weight of engine will.
Will HP/liter tell you how much more or less your vehicle will cost to produce? HP/per dollar will.
PLEASE Provide a meaningful example of how HP/liter can be used when considering an unlike engine swap.
In regards to an earlier post :I must be mistaken because I thought F1 engines used pneumatic valve actuation not a dual overhead camshaft arrangement.
Sources
http://world.honda.com/F1/spec/
http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1222194
According to those I would be corerct wouldn't I?
Last edited by Cheatin' Chad; 07-19-2006 at 02:53 PM.
07-18-2006, 05:48 PM
#303
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I suggest anyone reading this to LEARN that arguing to WIN is pointless. No one gets anything from it except maybe a bigger E-Dick.Which by the way still does not impress the ladies... You should discuss and argue to LEARN
05-15-2007, 09:50 PM
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$100,000 650 HP LS9 Supercharged Vette=no competition from the Ford GT.I really hope they do build this so called Vette SS.Even if it goes for $100K it will still be $50K less than the Ford GT but 100 more ponies.
