05_GTO

I would be very worried about that oil pressure as well. I wouldn't drive the car IMO.

bigdsz

iTrader: (1)

Mike Norris at Next Level Performance in Orlando In my opinion is the best in the SE US. He is a sponsor here and I believe he visits S Florida and does tuning down there about once a month.

gtodoug

iTrader: (1)

That is who tuned his car. The a/f looked good but still now power to speak of. Graph looks ok, no dips or abnormal curves. Power peaked where it should have as did the tq. I think I still have the graph of the pull if you want me to post it Jon.

Dougie

MikeG

iTrader: (33)

Why not try RevXtreme in Tampa? I know they can tune LS2s.

willyfastz

As long as he has 10psi per 1k rpm it will be fine.

bigdsz

iTrader: (1)

Mike Norris has tuned my car four times. On the first initial tune he spent three hours and I don't remember how many runs. He wanted to do more telling me he thought he could squeeze out another 5 hp, but I told him I was satisfied the way it was. Without a doubt he is one of the best.

Concerning the oil pressure was the engine blueprinted, because in addition to the potential problems already pointed out in this thread, there is another, being main bearing clearances. I think the spec says you can go to .0025, but to keep oil pressure up, I don't think the mains should be over about .0018.

jjw3477

iTrader: (1)

Doug you can post the graph, it might help, yeah norris did the tune and hopefully we can get this thing to idle better with more time spent on it.

jjw3477

iTrader: (1)

Like i said before i believe that the heads are a part of the problem that is why i am switching over to AFR 225 with 62cc chambers to raise the compression while where at it, but i believe that the lack of knowledge during assembly is part of the oil pressure problem, besides weight of oil.

dhdenney

iTrader: (53)

What do you mean lack of knowledge? I wouldn't want lack of knowledge anywhere near my motor!

ftlfirefighter

I think he means lack of experience

Black8Banger

iTrader: (9)

my 402 was 476/521 through a th400 and 9in with a 25x/26x cam

jjw3477

iTrader: (1)

thanks will yeah i meant lack of experience with 403 LS2's.

jjw3477

iTrader: (1)

well that is bigger than what i am running but i am in the works of going to a bigger cam along with the AFR 225's.

gtodoug

iTrader: (1)

Here is the graph:
LPE 403
Jesel Y2K roller rockers
FTI cam-242/246/114/.648/.648
Fast 90/90
1 3/4" LT's
Dual 2.5" exhaust
ASP pulley
Morel Lifters
Volant intake
Ported 90mm tb


The blue pull is the 403 and the red pull is his Head/cam setup previous.

Mike Norris

iTrader: (10)

Hey All,

I did the tune on the car and yes I did not spend much time with it. The main reason was that after these 4 pulls I knew the power was not going to change much and that Jonathon would not be happy with the numbers. When I travel to the south Florida area I have several cars scheduled by the shop that "rents" me and I figured this car was coming back apart agin in short time. I explained to Jonathon that I did not mess with too much idle tuning and why and that if the combo does stay the same that I would get after the driveablity and idle when I came back down or if he wanted to bring it up as he mentined he may several times. That offer still stands if the current combination is what we are staying with. If there are going to be changes then it may as well wait. The horsepower numbers will not change much for the WOT runs in my opinion with the A/F in the 13.0 range and the timing at 28-29*.

The setup is kind of a mutt in that there are parts and info from a lot of different vendors who, from talking to most of them, had different views on the combo. The cam grinder did not like the head or rocker setup. The head builder did not like the springs. the shop doing the assembly based all their install on Jonathon's input and changes. In Jonathon's defense he was basing his info off of his experts. Personally I believe there are too many hands in the pot as well as some untested pieces.

Initially I figured dropping on a standard set of out of the box AFR 225's with a good spring upgrade and see what they give over the modified Profilers. Of course if we have a low oil pressure issue that needs to be addressed first. I would be curious what LPE suggests as break in oil and go from there.

Time will tell and I would not mind seeing what is actually up with this car. I just need a proper amount of time. Hope this info helps.

Mike Norris

jjw3477

iTrader: (1)

First let me apologize to Mike but after the long story of this car over 5 months and then the poor performance and then 5 days out of the shop the car breaks down i believe anybody would be hot.
Hey Mike i hope you did not take the peak numbers as being part of a shot at you because it was not, I agree with you on the fact that there were to many parts from to many people involved so i have cut chase and ordered a set of AFR heads like you had suggested and at this point with the tuning i just want the thing to idle correct till we put the new parts on. I will say that working with mike is always a pleasure as much as working with any tuner can be.

Also after a week and a half of having no car after the thing broke down on me 5 days out of the shop my buddies transmission shop had found that a bolt had come loose off of the new short shifter and had fallen into the gates and was blocking my shifts.

gtodoug

iTrader: (1)

Mike,

First of all let me preface my commentary by stating your reputation as being one of the best tuners in the southeast U.S. preceeds you. I personally have heard nothing but good things about you and your involvment with whatever companies it happens to be at that time.

Furthermore I may even agree with some of your statments in that there were definatley too many hands in the cookie jar and that the combination was not well thought out. Jonathan built the car the best way he knew how. That is not your fault. We live and learn.

However, I couldn't disagree more in the fact that if you are paid to do a full tune, I would expect nothing less than a full tune. Based on the WOT tune it looks great. Fuel curve looks great and according to Jon you tried bumping timing with really no power increase over he H/C setup, but why render him the car undriveable? It surges badly, you have to constanly blip the throttle in order for it to stay running while coming off of idle, and you can visually see fuel coming out of the tailpipes at idle. That I don't agree with.

This project has turned out to be a nightmare in many aspects(heads/rocker setup/transmission issues/oil pressure issues). I just don't understand the need to complicate the situation with the driveability aspect of the car due to not fully tuning it. If I didn't see the car first hand I might not have anything to say, but I drove it 10 min after it left your hands. We noticed a front 02 sensor went out when I plugged up the Tech 2 and has since been replaced. Even so according to Jon it still is driving the same even after having to replace it until a week or so ago he had to pull it down because of a mis-installed shifter by the shop that put the car together.

Sorry for the rant, but I can't see eye to eye with ya on this one. If you lived around the corner from him and you guys could tweak it every so often that would be one thing, but he is hundreds of miles away from ya and it is a huge inconvenience for him to have to "piece meal" his tune together.

Dougie

Mike Norris

iTrader: (10)

Hi Jon,

Thanks for the kind words and to be upfront, I was not so much defending me or my shop, but just wanting to get what info i had out so everyone could have the best info to make their own judgement on.

Doug,

I do agree with you and at times the time allowed me when I travel is limited to a point. This is not to say I do not owe Jon something and once all the changes and a proper setup is in place we can get it right. There were some issues I had with the vacuum and other readings that told me something was up and that the idle issues may stem from that. On top of that there were quite a few issues to "fix" when I arrived that day before I could get to the dyno. Not Jon's fault not mine or the other shop, just the circumstances. When I do travel, it is to tune a vehicle, not to work on it and on Jon's car I may have had two hours of work involved also beyond the tuning to get what I could.

The trips down south yield at times 7-8 cars to get done in a day and if an issue arises that dictates other then just tuning, time can run out on that vehicle. Sounds cold, but I can not let one cars lack of being prepared set back 1 or 2 or even 3 cars that are scheduled. Not Jon's fault there either, but it is what it is and I do the best I can with what I am presented with. If that puts me in a bad light with some folks, so be it, but I do not make the schedule when I travel.

Hope this helps.

Mike Norris

niphilli

Who did the heads?

jjw3477

iTrader: (1)

a company in florida did the port work but they are profiler 215 heads that like i said were opened up. If you want more info pm me but i will not disclose that info here.