Warhawk LS7X 12deg.
12-20-2006, 07:21 PM
#81
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Originally Posted by MerlinPro
Sean,
"...your saying is that you can't hit your targeted airflow numbers with the current port geometry. I would assume this is most likely valve head,seat,bowl geometry and it will always be a pain to get right."
Your quote is very near the mark. We are a little unhappy with the seat-to-port relationship. Our "target" numbers (as cast) are around 400 cfm and we've seen encouraging signs approaching that. That's without back cuts and other aids to flow. Just nail heads.
We know we need to "...get a great as cast product out the door " and we're close but not satisfied. Sure-we want the head to be great raw material for the smart porters out there so we're trying to give you all the best starting point we are capable of. Then you'd all have a monster head which is what we're shooting for. No one wants these on the market more than us.Can you say hemorrhaging $$?
To clarify for a moment: "...correct these casting flaws& short commings" . These are not prototype but rather first production samples to verify the dimensions and machining of the design. We're not correcting "flaws" to get flow-we are finding that the machine work needs certain corrections to get where we designed the head to be.
Let me ask you and the open forum: Is a $750, as-cast, bare casting that flows in say, the 360 @ .800 range suitable for you to use as-is or, use as raw porting material? Does everyone want a $1500-$2000 CNC 400+ head?
We'd be interested in your feed-back.
"...your saying is that you can't hit your targeted airflow numbers with the current port geometry. I would assume this is most likely valve head,seat,bowl geometry and it will always be a pain to get right."
Your quote is very near the mark. We are a little unhappy with the seat-to-port relationship. Our "target" numbers (as cast) are around 400 cfm and we've seen encouraging signs approaching that. That's without back cuts and other aids to flow. Just nail heads.
We know we need to "...get a great as cast product out the door " and we're close but not satisfied. Sure-we want the head to be great raw material for the smart porters out there so we're trying to give you all the best starting point we are capable of. Then you'd all have a monster head which is what we're shooting for. No one wants these on the market more than us.Can you say hemorrhaging $$?
To clarify for a moment: "...correct these casting flaws& short commings" . These are not prototype but rather first production samples to verify the dimensions and machining of the design. We're not correcting "flaws" to get flow-we are finding that the machine work needs certain corrections to get where we designed the head to be.
Let me ask you and the open forum: Is a $750, as-cast, bare casting that flows in say, the 360 @ .800 range suitable for you to use as-is or, use as raw porting material? Does everyone want a $1500-$2000 CNC 400+ head?
We'd be interested in your feed-back.
Very few people on the board are in need of a 400cfm head and most complain abou the high cost or AFR or TF heads and go with Patriots (not knocking the heads)
12-20-2006, 07:57 PM
#83
MerlinPro,
Most here will never flow .800"....at least i know I won't
What will these puppies flow "as-cast" @ .600, .650 and .700"?
Then, what can we expect at these lift #s after pro-porting/cnc??
joel
Most here will never flow .800"....at least i know I won't
What will these puppies flow "as-cast" @ .600, .650 and .700"?
Then, what can we expect at these lift #s after pro-porting/cnc??
joel
12-20-2006, 07:57 PM
#84
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Where did core shift come from??
Absolutely no core shift. These are brand new tools with superbly designed cores. Lots of time devoted to their design.
We're try to develop great flow numbers and the ports are just fine.
Absolutely no core shift. These are brand new tools with superbly designed cores. Lots of time devoted to their design.
We're try to develop great flow numbers and the ports are just fine.
12-20-2006, 08:09 PM
#85
Originally Posted by MerlinPro
Sean,
"...your saying is that you can't hit your targeted airflow numbers with the current port geometry. I would assume this is most likely valve head,seat,bowl geometry and it will always be a pain to get right."
Your quote is very near the mark. We are a little unhappy with the seat-to-port relationship. Our "target" numbers (as cast) are around 400 cfm and we've seen encouraging signs approaching that. That's without back cuts and other aids to flow. Just nail heads.
We know we need to "...get a great as cast product out the door " and we're close but not satisfied. Sure-we want the head to be great raw material for the smart porters out there so we're trying to give you all the best starting point we are capable of. Then you'd all have a monster head which is what we're shooting for. No one wants these on the market more than us.Can you say hemorrhaging $$?
To clarify for a moment: "...correct these casting flaws& short commings" . These are not prototype but rather first production samples to verify the dimensions and machining of the design. We're not correcting "flaws" to get flow-we are finding that the machine work needs certain corrections to get where we designed the head to be.
Let me ask you and the open forum: Is a $750, as-cast, bare casting that flows in say, the 360 @ .800 range suitable for you to use as-is or, use as raw porting material? Does everyone want a $1500-$2000 CNC 400+ head?
We'd be interested in your feed-back.
"...your saying is that you can't hit your targeted airflow numbers with the current port geometry. I would assume this is most likely valve head,seat,bowl geometry and it will always be a pain to get right."
Your quote is very near the mark. We are a little unhappy with the seat-to-port relationship. Our "target" numbers (as cast) are around 400 cfm and we've seen encouraging signs approaching that. That's without back cuts and other aids to flow. Just nail heads.
We know we need to "...get a great as cast product out the door " and we're close but not satisfied. Sure-we want the head to be great raw material for the smart porters out there so we're trying to give you all the best starting point we are capable of. Then you'd all have a monster head which is what we're shooting for. No one wants these on the market more than us.Can you say hemorrhaging $$?
To clarify for a moment: "...correct these casting flaws& short commings" . These are not prototype but rather first production samples to verify the dimensions and machining of the design. We're not correcting "flaws" to get flow-we are finding that the machine work needs certain corrections to get where we designed the head to be.
Let me ask you and the open forum: Is a $750, as-cast, bare casting that flows in say, the 360 @ .800 range suitable for you to use as-is or, use as raw porting material? Does everyone want a $1500-$2000 CNC 400+ head?
We'd be interested in your feed-back.
If It was legal for NMCA pro stock and came with Ti intake valves I'd love it lol.
12-20-2006, 10:31 PM
#86
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I think there could be something between a fully CNC'd port and a CNC bowl port,seat short turn and entrance. Alot like the Brodix products in that regard. I think this would adress some of your seat line up issues ( i figured thats whats been beating you up from your post) and allow you to get the consistency out of the product your looking for.
As for Nail heads i think the resullts are a good product with a good valve job at least from what it sounds like your describing. If the issue is machining maybe consider breaking it into sevral programs.
I think there is a market for all of these products If you are willing to place 3 or 4 versoins out there. Maybe do a as cast semi finished( with guides and seats ) rough machined for the porters, As cast finished useable head with minor bowl blending good valve job,Mild CNC ported Bowl work short side entrance port match trick valve job, Fully CNC on sevral tiers maybe 2 or 3 differing volumes.
I think this would give us the product selection we need and of course hopefully enough variety out of the casting to make it economically feasable for you. I would think maybe even an ET or TEA etc CNC ported versoin would be nice as well. Maybe offer some samples to a few porters and see what they come up with and offer a porter signature line.
What the market desparately needs is 6 bolt per cylinder casting that can be modified by the various head porters etc for big CI nitrous FI applications. Hell i can get CNC port work done if i want to spend $10K on adeveloping a port program locally. by some of the best porters in the country.
I think in the ends having sevral levels of finish allows us the consumer to chose what we need and lets you get some product off the shelf which is what you need.
If you wanted to go further porter raw casting would be nice as well so we could put in the seats,guide spacing we want and build some badass 3.900 bore stuff.
Thanx for listening to my rambling.
Sean
As for Nail heads i think the resullts are a good product with a good valve job at least from what it sounds like your describing. If the issue is machining maybe consider breaking it into sevral programs.
I think there is a market for all of these products If you are willing to place 3 or 4 versoins out there. Maybe do a as cast semi finished( with guides and seats ) rough machined for the porters, As cast finished useable head with minor bowl blending good valve job,Mild CNC ported Bowl work short side entrance port match trick valve job, Fully CNC on sevral tiers maybe 2 or 3 differing volumes.
I think this would give us the product selection we need and of course hopefully enough variety out of the casting to make it economically feasable for you. I would think maybe even an ET or TEA etc CNC ported versoin would be nice as well. Maybe offer some samples to a few porters and see what they come up with and offer a porter signature line.
What the market desparately needs is 6 bolt per cylinder casting that can be modified by the various head porters etc for big CI nitrous FI applications. Hell i can get CNC port work done if i want to spend $10K on adeveloping a port program locally. by some of the best porters in the country.
I think in the ends having sevral levels of finish allows us the consumer to chose what we need and lets you get some product off the shelf which is what you need.
If you wanted to go further porter raw casting would be nice as well so we could put in the seats,guide spacing we want and build some badass 3.900 bore stuff.
Thanx for listening to my rambling.
Sean
Originally Posted by MerlinPro
Sean,
"...your saying is that you can't hit your targeted airflow numbers with the current port geometry. I would assume this is most likely valve head,seat,bowl geometry and it will always be a pain to get right."
Your quote is very near the mark. We are a little unhappy with the seat-to-port relationship. Our "target" numbers (as cast) are around 400 cfm and we've seen encouraging signs approaching that. That's without back cuts and other aids to flow. Just nail heads.
We know we need to "...get a great as cast product out the door " and we're close but not satisfied. Sure-we want the head to be great raw material for the smart porters out there so we're trying to give you all the best starting point we are capable of. Then you'd all have a monster head which is what we're shooting for. No one wants these on the market more than us.Can you say hemorrhaging $$?
To clarify for a moment: "...correct these casting flaws& short commings" . These are not prototype but rather first production samples to verify the dimensions and machining of the design. We're not correcting "flaws" to get flow-we are finding that the machine work needs certain corrections to get where we designed the head to be.
Let me ask you and the open forum: Is a $750, as-cast, bare casting that flows in say, the 360 @ .800 range suitable for you to use as-is or, use as raw porting material? Does everyone want a $1500-$2000 CNC 400+ head?
We'd be interested in your feed-back.
"...your saying is that you can't hit your targeted airflow numbers with the current port geometry. I would assume this is most likely valve head,seat,bowl geometry and it will always be a pain to get right."
Your quote is very near the mark. We are a little unhappy with the seat-to-port relationship. Our "target" numbers (as cast) are around 400 cfm and we've seen encouraging signs approaching that. That's without back cuts and other aids to flow. Just nail heads.
We know we need to "...get a great as cast product out the door " and we're close but not satisfied. Sure-we want the head to be great raw material for the smart porters out there so we're trying to give you all the best starting point we are capable of. Then you'd all have a monster head which is what we're shooting for. No one wants these on the market more than us.Can you say hemorrhaging $$?
To clarify for a moment: "...correct these casting flaws& short commings" . These are not prototype but rather first production samples to verify the dimensions and machining of the design. We're not correcting "flaws" to get flow-we are finding that the machine work needs certain corrections to get where we designed the head to be.
Let me ask you and the open forum: Is a $750, as-cast, bare casting that flows in say, the 360 @ .800 range suitable for you to use as-is or, use as raw porting material? Does everyone want a $1500-$2000 CNC 400+ head?
We'd be interested in your feed-back.
12-21-2006, 08:59 AM
#87
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[B]Bink,[B]
Sorry I missed you in there.
I'm told the numbers starting at .600 are in the 330 range. My guess is the 360-70 range with less than all-out work. Bear with me as I try to push for testing as we're jumping through our asses here.
Sorry I missed you in there.
I'm told the numbers starting at .600 are in the 330 range. My guess is the 360-70 range with less than all-out work. Bear with me as I try to push for testing as we're jumping through our asses here.
12-21-2006, 12:42 PM
#88
Originally Posted by MerlinPro
[B]Bink,[B]
Sorry I missed you in there.
I'm told the numbers starting at .600 are in the 330 range. My guess is the 360-70 range with less than all-out work. Bear with me as I try to push for testing as we're jumping through our asses here.
Sorry I missed you in there.
I'm told the numbers starting at .600 are in the 330 range. My guess is the 360-70 range with less than all-out work. Bear with me as I try to push for testing as we're jumping through our asses here.
01-02-2007, 06:02 PM
#89
Originally Posted by Sean Collins
I think there could be something between a fully CNC'd port and a CNC bowl port,seat short turn and entrance. Alot like the Brodix products in that regard. I think this would adress some of your seat line up issues ( i figured thats whats been beating you up from your post) and allow you to get the consistency out of the product your looking for.
As for Nail heads i think the resullts are a good product with a good valve job at least from what it sounds like your describing. If the issue is machining maybe consider breaking it into sevral programs.
I think there is a market for all of these products If you are willing to place 3 or 4 versoins out there. Maybe do a as cast semi finished( with guides and seats ) rough machined for the porters, As cast finished useable head with minor bowl blending good valve job,Mild CNC ported Bowl work short side entrance port match trick valve job, Fully CNC on sevral tiers maybe 2 or 3 differing volumes.
I think this would give us the product selection we need and of course hopefully enough variety out of the casting to make it economically feasable for you. I would think maybe even an ET or TEA etc CNC ported versoin would be nice as well. Maybe offer some samples to a few porters and see what they come up with and offer a porter signature line.
What the market desparately needs is 6 bolt per cylinder casting that can be modified by the various head porters etc for big CI nitrous FI applications. Hell i can get CNC port work done if i want to spend $10K on adeveloping a port program locally. by some of the best porters in the country.
I think in the ends having sevral levels of finish allows us the consumer to chose what we need and lets you get some product off the shelf which is what you need.
If you wanted to go further porter raw casting would be nice as well so we could put in the seats,guide spacing we want and build some badass 3.900 bore stuff.
Thanx for listening to my rambling.
Sean
As for Nail heads i think the resullts are a good product with a good valve job at least from what it sounds like your describing. If the issue is machining maybe consider breaking it into sevral programs.
I think there is a market for all of these products If you are willing to place 3 or 4 versoins out there. Maybe do a as cast semi finished( with guides and seats ) rough machined for the porters, As cast finished useable head with minor bowl blending good valve job,Mild CNC ported Bowl work short side entrance port match trick valve job, Fully CNC on sevral tiers maybe 2 or 3 differing volumes.
I think this would give us the product selection we need and of course hopefully enough variety out of the casting to make it economically feasable for you. I would think maybe even an ET or TEA etc CNC ported versoin would be nice as well. Maybe offer some samples to a few porters and see what they come up with and offer a porter signature line.
What the market desparately needs is 6 bolt per cylinder casting that can be modified by the various head porters etc for big CI nitrous FI applications. Hell i can get CNC port work done if i want to spend $10K on adeveloping a port program locally. by some of the best porters in the country.
I think in the ends having sevral levels of finish allows us the consumer to chose what we need and lets you get some product off the shelf which is what you need.
If you wanted to go further porter raw casting would be nice as well so we could put in the seats,guide spacing we want and build some badass 3.900 bore stuff.
Thanx for listening to my rambling.
Sean
any updates? considering the holidays probably not right?
01-03-2007, 01:47 PM
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Murda,
Not because of the holiday but no news just yet. We're getting ready to ship some LS1X's soon but no improvements to test on 7X's yet.
Not because of the holiday but no news just yet. We're getting ready to ship some LS1X's soon but no improvements to test on 7X's yet.
01-23-2007, 03:54 PM
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Dave,
Late next week we'll ship the first small batch of 9.24 decks to the earliest orders on the list. Bigger batches will start to arrive mid Feb and go out to the list. No word on 9.8's. LS1X's are in stock-we're shipping 7 assembled sets this week and we have more on the shelf. (bares)
Final LS7X samples are 80% machined and Billy tells me the guide/chamber/seat relationship now looks very nice. We'll get a pair next week, do the valve job and bowl blend here and flow to see what we've got. The feeling seems to be we can't hold back forever and it will be a quality, good-flowing piece.
I've got my fingers/toes crossed...
Late next week we'll ship the first small batch of 9.24 decks to the earliest orders on the list. Bigger batches will start to arrive mid Feb and go out to the list. No word on 9.8's. LS1X's are in stock-we're shipping 7 assembled sets this week and we have more on the shelf. (bares)
Final LS7X samples are 80% machined and Billy tells me the guide/chamber/seat relationship now looks very nice. We'll get a pair next week, do the valve job and bowl blend here and flow to see what we've got. The feeling seems to be we can't hold back forever and it will be a quality, good-flowing piece.
I've got my fingers/toes crossed...
01-23-2007, 06:00 PM
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Nine,
Funny you should mention that..
They just moved the 2 lifts yesterday (used for play projects) from one side of the shop to a bigger area. It appears preparations are in effect for something sinister. I'll believe it when I see it...
I'll remember to do as you advise if we buy any pipe.
Funny you should mention that..
They just moved the 2 lifts yesterday (used for play projects) from one side of the shop to a bigger area. It appears preparations are in effect for something sinister. I'll believe it when I see it...
I'll remember to do as you advise if we buy any pipe.
01-23-2007, 11:54 PM
#98
Originally Posted by MerlinPro
Dave,
Late next week we'll ship the first small batch of 9.24 decks to the earliest orders on the list. Bigger batches will start to arrive mid Feb and go out to the list. No word on 9.8's. LS1X's are in stock-we're shipping 7 assembled sets this week and we have more on the shelf. (bares)
Final LS7X samples are 80% machined and Billy tells me the guide/chamber/seat relationship now looks very nice. We'll get a pair next week, do the valve job and bowl blend here and flow to see what we've got. The feeling seems to be we can't hold back forever and it will be a quality, good-flowing piece.
I've got my fingers/toes crossed...
Late next week we'll ship the first small batch of 9.24 decks to the earliest orders on the list. Bigger batches will start to arrive mid Feb and go out to the list. No word on 9.8's. LS1X's are in stock-we're shipping 7 assembled sets this week and we have more on the shelf. (bares)
Final LS7X samples are 80% machined and Billy tells me the guide/chamber/seat relationship now looks very nice. We'll get a pair next week, do the valve job and bowl blend here and flow to see what we've got. The feeling seems to be we can't hold back forever and it will be a quality, good-flowing piece.
I've got my fingers/toes crossed...
01-24-2007, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by MerlinPro
Nine,
Funny you should mention that..
They just moved the 2 lifts yesterday (used for play projects) from one side of the shop to a bigger area. It appears preparations are in effect for something sinister. I'll believe it when I see it...
I'll remember to do as you advise if we buy any pipe.
Funny you should mention that..
They just moved the 2 lifts yesterday (used for play projects) from one side of the shop to a bigger area. It appears preparations are in effect for something sinister. I'll believe it when I see it...
I'll remember to do as you advise if we buy any pipe.
