402 L92/L76 is on the road
Kevin,
Grenade the thread, never dyno the car, and just keep cruising around for fun. Its a fun fast car.
The SStroker boys, and you have to much time and money invested in the project. Forge ahead and just have fun with the car. Numbers dont matter, and me and chip are getting used to you being ahead of us.
I sell nug nuts if anyone needs any
Grenade the thread, never dyno the car, and just keep cruising around for fun. Its a fun fast car.
The SStroker boys, and you have to much time and money invested in the project. Forge ahead and just have fun with the car. Numbers dont matter, and me and chip are getting used to you being ahead of us.
I sell nug nuts if anyone needs any
You guys are agueing over these cam specs like this car just made 600 rwhp. All you have to go on is they way he "describes" how the car feels. Who is to say it's working effortlessly? Hell, he may be comparing it to a Pinto for all we know. All we can gather from this is that: A) The car will crank B) The car moves C) It will out run a stock car. Even if the cam specs were divulged, they would be mearley pointless at this time. There's just not enough info here to warrant all this hype. If you guys need a cam that will do A,B, and C above, shoot me a PM. I can deffinatlly handle that for you.
Yeah, all I want to know is how well a 402-418 ci motor w/ the L92 stuff will do compared to a 402-418 with the AFR, etc type heads.
I also want to know if the move to the bigger bore and LS7 stuff worth the extra money.
I still have not seen/read any answers. As mentioned above, seat of the pants feel and guesses don't tell me a thing. As much as people complain about dynos (sae dynojet), it seems to be the most objective way to really compare setups, especially when there are trends.
I was really anxious to hear the results of this build up.
I also want to know if the move to the bigger bore and LS7 stuff worth the extra money.
I still have not seen/read any answers. As mentioned above, seat of the pants feel and guesses don't tell me a thing. As much as people complain about dynos (sae dynojet), it seems to be the most objective way to really compare setups, especially when there are trends.
I was really anxious to hear the results of this build up.
It's SOOOO simple.
1. It's his buildup and he's being good to his word. Respectable whether you like the concept or not.
2. It's Bret's business to run how he wants and can disclose (or not) what he wants to.
3. If you want the specs that bad, buy the engine or cam for your identical buildup and I'll bet he'll give you the specs.
4. Dyno AND run this car down the track and let us know how it does!
5. VIDEO!
1. It's his buildup and he's being good to his word. Respectable whether you like the concept or not.
2. It's Bret's business to run how he wants and can disclose (or not) what he wants to.
3. If you want the specs that bad, buy the engine or cam for your identical buildup and I'll bet he'll give you the specs.
4. Dyno AND run this car down the track and let us know how it does!
5. VIDEO!
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by WKMCD
You guys are real pieces of work. I give out every single spec on the build here with the exception of cam specs which I was asked not to by BRE. The reason for the post was to let everyone know that the setup works and works well.
If you want a cam, do what I did. Talk to everyone you can who seems knowledgable and make a gut level decision on who you think can produce the cam that will meet your needs.
If that's not good enough - pound sand.
If you want a cam, do what I did. Talk to everyone you can who seems knowledgable and make a gut level decision on who you think can produce the cam that will meet your needs.
If that's not good enough - pound sand.
Originally Posted by Phil'sC5vette
Kevin,
Grenade the thread, never dyno the car, and just keep cruising around for fun. Its a fun fast car.
The SStroker boys, and you have to much time and money invested in the project. Forge ahead and just have fun with the car. Numbers dont matter, and me and chip are getting used to you being ahead of us.
I sell nug nuts if anyone needs any
Grenade the thread, never dyno the car, and just keep cruising around for fun. Its a fun fast car.
The SStroker boys, and you have to much time and money invested in the project. Forge ahead and just have fun with the car. Numbers dont matter, and me and chip are getting used to you being ahead of us.
I sell nug nuts if anyone needs any
It's really funny...I keep saying this was built for me and none of the people pissing and moaning here spent a cent on this build yet for some reason think they have some kind of rights. I've said all along this is a gentleman's cruiser. That's what I told Bret. That's what I told Phil. That's what I told Brian. That's what I told Patrick G. That's what I told Goeff. BTW: the last two did aid in the final cam decision. Go bother them. Sorry guys.
Now people who have absolutely no investment in this setup are insisting that I dyno it immediately and take it to the track. Guys, I have the car for 3 f'ing days. My original plan didn't even include a dyno session. It's not important to me and that's all I really care about. I really could give a rats *** whether the car runs 9's or 12's. I'm simply sharing my impressions of the build and have shared the problems we had along the way.
This is the first one that I know of. My purpose was to demonstrate that properly chosen components on this setup works well for me. If you want one that works for you...spend your money and time and build it. I sincerely hope yours works for you as well as mine works for me.
I raced motorcycles for 14 years all over the world...My racing days are behind me either with or without turns. And no, I didn't give my competitors all my build specs then.
That's it, I'm done defending myself to the various pissants that populate this board. I've heard from a lot of people here that are enthusuastic and appreciate that fact that someone took one for the team and put this setup together.
BTW Phil: Let's go for a hot cruise. Just remember to bring your "Get Out of Jail Free card. This car is capital offense fast.
Originally Posted by Beast96Z
You guys are agueing over these cam specs like this car just made 600 rwhp. All you have to go on is they way he "describes" how the car feels. Who is to say it's working effortlessly? Hell, he may be comparing it to a Pinto for all we know. All we can gather from this is that: A) The car will crank B) The car moves C) It will out run a stock car. Even if the cam specs were divulged, they would be mearley pointless at this time. There's just not enough info here to warrant all this hype. If you guys need a cam that will do A,B, and C above, shoot me a PM. I can deffinatlly handle that for you.
I really could care less what the cam specs are, my motor is done and won't be changed for a long time, as you already know.
I just think the whole keeping specs quiet on a forum is retarded, especially a technically geared forum. LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power
Verdad Gallardo
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy
10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die
Verdad Gallardo
Originally Posted by WKMCD
Phil,
It's really funny...I keep saying this was built for me and none of the people pissing and moaning here spent a cent on this build yet for some reason think they have some kind of rights. I've said all along this is a gentleman's cruiser. That's what I told Bret. That's what I told Phil. That's what I told Brian. That's what I told Patrick G. That's what I told Goeff. BTW: the last two did aid in the final cam decision. Go bother them. Sorry guys.
Now people who have absolutely no investment in this setup are insisting that I dyno it immediately and take it to the track. Guys, I have the car for 3 f'ing days. My original plan didn't even include a dyno session. It's not important to me and that's all I really care about. I really could give a rats *** whether the car runs 9's or 12's. I'm simply sharing my impressions of the build and have shared the problems we had along the way.
This is the first one that I know of. My purpose was to demonstrate that properly chosen components on this setup works well for me. If you want one that works for you...spend your money and time and build it. I sincerely hope yours works for you as well as mine works for me.
I raced motorcycles for 14 years all over the world...My racing days are behind me either with or without turns. And no, I didn't give my competitors all my build specs then.
That's it, I'm done defending myself to the various pissants that populate this board. I've heard from a lot of people here that are enthusuastic and appreciate that fact that someone took one for the team and put this setup together.
BTW Phil: Let's go for a hot cruise. Just remember to bring your "Get Out of Jail Free card. This car is capital offense fast.
It's really funny...I keep saying this was built for me and none of the people pissing and moaning here spent a cent on this build yet for some reason think they have some kind of rights. I've said all along this is a gentleman's cruiser. That's what I told Bret. That's what I told Phil. That's what I told Brian. That's what I told Patrick G. That's what I told Goeff. BTW: the last two did aid in the final cam decision. Go bother them. Sorry guys.
Now people who have absolutely no investment in this setup are insisting that I dyno it immediately and take it to the track. Guys, I have the car for 3 f'ing days. My original plan didn't even include a dyno session. It's not important to me and that's all I really care about. I really could give a rats *** whether the car runs 9's or 12's. I'm simply sharing my impressions of the build and have shared the problems we had along the way.
This is the first one that I know of. My purpose was to demonstrate that properly chosen components on this setup works well for me. If you want one that works for you...spend your money and time and build it. I sincerely hope yours works for you as well as mine works for me.
I raced motorcycles for 14 years all over the world...My racing days are behind me either with or without turns. And no, I didn't give my competitors all my build specs then.
That's it, I'm done defending myself to the various pissants that populate this board. I've heard from a lot of people here that are enthusuastic and appreciate that fact that someone took one for the team and put this setup together.
BTW Phil: Let's go for a hot cruise. Just remember to bring your "Get Out of Jail Free card. This car is capital offense fast.
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by WKMCD
Phil,
It's really funny...I keep saying this was built for me and none of the people pissing and moaning here spent a cent on this build yet for some reason think they have some kind of rights. I've said all along this is a gentleman's cruiser. That's what I told Bret. That's what I told Phil. That's what I told Brian. That's what I told Patrick G. That's what I told Goeff. BTW: the last two did aid in the final cam decision. Go bother them. Sorry guys.
Now people who have absolutely no investment in this setup are insisting that I dyno it immediately and take it to the track. Guys, I have the car for 3 f'ing days. My original plan didn't even include a dyno session. It's not important to me and that's all I really care about. I really could give a rats *** whether the car runs 9's or 12's. I'm simply sharing my impressions of the build and have shared the problems we had along the way.
This is the first one that I know of. My purpose was to demonstrate that properly chosen components on this setup works well for me. If you want one that works for you...spend your money and time and build it. I sincerely hope yours works for you as well as mine works for me.
I raced motorcycles for 14 years all over the world...My racing days are behind me either with or without turns. And no, I didn't give my competitors all my build specs then.
That's it, I'm done defending myself to the various pissants that populate this board. I've heard from a lot of people here that are enthusuastic and appreciate that fact that someone took one for the team and put this setup together.
BTW Phil: Let's go for a hot cruise. Just remember to bring your "Get Out of Jail Free card. This car is capital offense fast.
It's really funny...I keep saying this was built for me and none of the people pissing and moaning here spent a cent on this build yet for some reason think they have some kind of rights. I've said all along this is a gentleman's cruiser. That's what I told Bret. That's what I told Phil. That's what I told Brian. That's what I told Patrick G. That's what I told Goeff. BTW: the last two did aid in the final cam decision. Go bother them. Sorry guys.
Now people who have absolutely no investment in this setup are insisting that I dyno it immediately and take it to the track. Guys, I have the car for 3 f'ing days. My original plan didn't even include a dyno session. It's not important to me and that's all I really care about. I really could give a rats *** whether the car runs 9's or 12's. I'm simply sharing my impressions of the build and have shared the problems we had along the way.
This is the first one that I know of. My purpose was to demonstrate that properly chosen components on this setup works well for me. If you want one that works for you...spend your money and time and build it. I sincerely hope yours works for you as well as mine works for me.
I raced motorcycles for 14 years all over the world...My racing days are behind me either with or without turns. And no, I didn't give my competitors all my build specs then.
That's it, I'm done defending myself to the various pissants that populate this board. I've heard from a lot of people here that are enthusuastic and appreciate that fact that someone took one for the team and put this setup together.
BTW Phil: Let's go for a hot cruise. Just remember to bring your "Get Out of Jail Free card. This car is capital offense fast.
Teching In
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
I can help all you guys out by telling you that the l92 heads are no better than well ported stock heads or aftermarket head. I have already tried this settup and was not impressed. I got 415 rwhp on automatic car with loose convertor unlocked. Just read the article in gm high tech this month. They picked up about 44 horse power verses stock heads. Well the same amount can be picked up with AFR heads. This l92 stuff is way overrated.
Originally Posted by Ksett
If your original plan with this setup was to not take it to a dyno why the hell would you post this whole thing in the first place? You're wasting everyone's time if you don't care to dyno your car and share results. This whole post is useless with no valuable information, without at least a dyno after it's broken in. I'm not asking for cam specs but after this big write up that's been going on for months you're now saying you don't plan to dyno the car?
Originally Posted by 66deuce
hell,i want to see these specs as bad as anyone else on here.but stop and think about this for a minute....if some of Brets customers(or potential customers) knew he was giving out specs on a cam he designed,even tho it had nothing to do with their motors,he might lose some business.because they might see this thread and think "well if he's giving out info on this other guy's cam,he might do it to me".so they go to somebody else.the racing community is very protective or secrective of the technology they have,whether it's a cam design,port design,etc.if a team thinks they have an edge on the competition,they want to keep it to themselves and make damn sure any vendors they use are just as secretive as they are....
i dont blame either for keeping them quiet , if asked id do the same
mass produced cams give specs , and customs do also , but there are alot that spend alot of time and reasearch that dont want the numbers given
id bet reher-morrison wont give out specs on their current cam for their top motors , cams they consider old and dont use for their current motor program , they would
heck i think warren johnson still wont give out specs to his old stuff from 20 years ago , LOL
id love to see dyno and 1/4 times , just to hear and see the car's #'s (dont care about peak hp , just the curves) , and the track just to hear it and se it legally , this way he doesnt risk anyone in getting us a vid clip
Originally Posted by Blue02Ws6
If you wanted this to be for just you and didnt want all the questions and requests, why the hell did you post it step by step for the whole forum to witness and see? Delete this thread and don't start anymore since no one but you paid for this setup and it is all yours. Oh wait how can you get attention then though.
There are people here who enjoyed following the build. If you didn't, turn the f'ng chanel.
So, I stopped reading this a few pages ago, and it's not even a long thread.
Is there any technical information in this thread? I could really give a **** less about cam specs, but if there is nothing technical in this thread, i.e., dyno numbers or track times or something useful like pushrod length for use as a ballpark for us shadetree mechanics, then this should be moved to a lounge somewhere so people can fight about whether the sky is blue.
Is there any technical information in this thread? I could really give a **** less about cam specs, but if there is nothing technical in this thread, i.e., dyno numbers or track times or something useful like pushrod length for use as a ballpark for us shadetree mechanics, then this should be moved to a lounge somewhere so people can fight about whether the sky is blue.
TECH Addict
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,261
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by SStrokerAce
Well, this is a very interesting study in human behaviour if anything. It's interesting to see the reactions of both people who are pro and con on divulging cam specs.
Honestly it all depends on where you are coming from, and at the same time says a lot about you to potential vendors. Trust me if a vendor can prevent from selling to some of the people in this thread because it will be all headaches and whining they will. Then again most guys who are the better customers trust people and how they run their shops to do what is right for them. In the end that's what they BOTH want. Lord knows I choose who I want to work with, not the other way around. (maybe my personal policies reflect this as well, hmmmm)
I've worked with everyone from individuals such as Kevin to race engine builders and head porters on cams and valvetrains. Some guys reguardless if it's a high 300's FLYWHEEL circle track motor or a monster 1000hp drag motor will not tell you cam specs. Other shops who have VERY good names will never ever sell to you again if you let another shop open up "their" motor, due to a lot of "SECRETS" that are just given up when you do so.
That could be and has been the difference in going from a winning season to a losing season, by having the right guy build OR NOT build your motor. (or chassis)
Some places like Reher Morrison will give you the cam specs to every motor they make for sportsman racing. I've even seen them publish Pro Stock cam specs. There are also guys like Erik Koenig who teach at SAM that cams aren't a secret.... I respect them for doing all of that, but even these guys will tell you that the LS world Is WAY TO WRAPED UP IN SPECS and doesn't care about performance as much as the numbers on the card or in their sig.
The funny part is I haven't seen any of this put a new view on ANY cams that are readily available to you guys, and it never will. The only guy out there who is doing anything different than the normal is Futral because they use a different place to grind their cams than everyone else. There are other shops but you don't hear as much about them as you would the F13, G5X4, TRex or MS4 or whatever threads that constantly clutter the bandwidth daily. For the most part everything is a combination of LSK, XE-R etc... lobes on a 112 LSA +/- 2° with varing philosophies on the amount of split and pretty much a similar IVC. You really can't screw up much with a intake manifold that has that much runner length in this RPM band, but man I do see a lot of stuff that gets smoked by a stock cam from idle to 4500rpm and people call these driveable and "fun" to use daily. Give me a break. That's only usefull for bragging rights on who makes the most rwhp AND drag racing with huge converters..... but in the end that's what sells more parts and STROKES egos.
I guess all of this also has a place since if what makes a guy happy is that his motor makes a magic number on a dyno, he spent that much money he should get those results that everyone else tries to achive. He might drive the car to work a bunch less, not take his wife out in the car because she doesn't like the bucking and lopey idle or might not drive it long trips in the summer.... that's his sacrafice for having that "number" that makes him feel good relative to other guys on the internet. If you want to stick to that same game, then you have all the tools here to do so.
One bad thing about our country is that we are infatuated with money and bling.... and in the end all that adds up to is numbers.... which is why cam specs and peak HP numbers are all that matters here.... so that guys can fill up their sigs with something. Hell lets start putting up bank account numbers and measurements of our ***** (or breast sizes for the other sex) in the sigs here, it would be about as meaningfull.
There is a great section here for the drag racing guys who care about ET numbers, which in reality do count a bunch more than peak rwhp numbers, but not as much as beating the guy in the lane NEXT to them, not across the country. Then again the other half of the board is interested in what gets them around the block faster or gets their heart pumping on the way to work everyday.
Enjoy your life and your car for what YOU want it to be, not what you think or feel makes others admire you more. In the end running your life (or shop) the way you want to is the key in the long run. Hell if we all did this then there would be less "shops" with pimped out shop cars paid for with other peoples money and parts that was ripped off of them and a big mess is left for the board to clean up.
Otherwise, STFU and stop jamming your view of meaningless BS down everyones throat.... and if you want to learn about cam specs GO OPEN A BOOK/WEBSITE AND READ, buy some cams, build a motor or two and run them on the dyno and track. Untill then STOP CRYING, I'll teach you how to fish but I'm not casting the line in the ocean for you!
Bret
Honestly it all depends on where you are coming from, and at the same time says a lot about you to potential vendors. Trust me if a vendor can prevent from selling to some of the people in this thread because it will be all headaches and whining they will. Then again most guys who are the better customers trust people and how they run their shops to do what is right for them. In the end that's what they BOTH want. Lord knows I choose who I want to work with, not the other way around. (maybe my personal policies reflect this as well, hmmmm)
I've worked with everyone from individuals such as Kevin to race engine builders and head porters on cams and valvetrains. Some guys reguardless if it's a high 300's FLYWHEEL circle track motor or a monster 1000hp drag motor will not tell you cam specs. Other shops who have VERY good names will never ever sell to you again if you let another shop open up "their" motor, due to a lot of "SECRETS" that are just given up when you do so.
That could be and has been the difference in going from a winning season to a losing season, by having the right guy build OR NOT build your motor. (or chassis)
Some places like Reher Morrison will give you the cam specs to every motor they make for sportsman racing. I've even seen them publish Pro Stock cam specs. There are also guys like Erik Koenig who teach at SAM that cams aren't a secret.... I respect them for doing all of that, but even these guys will tell you that the LS world Is WAY TO WRAPED UP IN SPECS and doesn't care about performance as much as the numbers on the card or in their sig.
The funny part is I haven't seen any of this put a new view on ANY cams that are readily available to you guys, and it never will. The only guy out there who is doing anything different than the normal is Futral because they use a different place to grind their cams than everyone else. There are other shops but you don't hear as much about them as you would the F13, G5X4, TRex or MS4 or whatever threads that constantly clutter the bandwidth daily. For the most part everything is a combination of LSK, XE-R etc... lobes on a 112 LSA +/- 2° with varing philosophies on the amount of split and pretty much a similar IVC. You really can't screw up much with a intake manifold that has that much runner length in this RPM band, but man I do see a lot of stuff that gets smoked by a stock cam from idle to 4500rpm and people call these driveable and "fun" to use daily. Give me a break. That's only usefull for bragging rights on who makes the most rwhp AND drag racing with huge converters..... but in the end that's what sells more parts and STROKES egos.
I guess all of this also has a place since if what makes a guy happy is that his motor makes a magic number on a dyno, he spent that much money he should get those results that everyone else tries to achive. He might drive the car to work a bunch less, not take his wife out in the car because she doesn't like the bucking and lopey idle or might not drive it long trips in the summer.... that's his sacrafice for having that "number" that makes him feel good relative to other guys on the internet. If you want to stick to that same game, then you have all the tools here to do so.
One bad thing about our country is that we are infatuated with money and bling.... and in the end all that adds up to is numbers.... which is why cam specs and peak HP numbers are all that matters here.... so that guys can fill up their sigs with something. Hell lets start putting up bank account numbers and measurements of our ***** (or breast sizes for the other sex) in the sigs here, it would be about as meaningfull.
There is a great section here for the drag racing guys who care about ET numbers, which in reality do count a bunch more than peak rwhp numbers, but not as much as beating the guy in the lane NEXT to them, not across the country. Then again the other half of the board is interested in what gets them around the block faster or gets their heart pumping on the way to work everyday.
Enjoy your life and your car for what YOU want it to be, not what you think or feel makes others admire you more. In the end running your life (or shop) the way you want to is the key in the long run. Hell if we all did this then there would be less "shops" with pimped out shop cars paid for with other peoples money and parts that was ripped off of them and a big mess is left for the board to clean up.
Otherwise, STFU and stop jamming your view of meaningless BS down everyones throat.... and if you want to learn about cam specs GO OPEN A BOOK/WEBSITE AND READ, buy some cams, build a motor or two and run them on the dyno and track. Untill then STOP CRYING, I'll teach you how to fish but I'm not casting the line in the ocean for you!
Bret
A whole lot said in a few short paragraphs.
There should be someplace to sticky this.
Teching In
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Let's see WKMCD is one of the first to build this motor and post about it in an open forum. He hires someone to help design the motor and pays him with his own hard earned money. He shares every aspect of the build except one. Now many people have thier panties in a bunch because he will not share his cam specs. Boo freakin Hoo. It is his choice not to. I would be willing to bet that half of the people crying would do the exact same thing if they were in his position. Where does it say total disclosure is required? I feel he has been more then fair in what he has done. There is a very simple solution to this. Wipe the layer of dust off of your checkbook and pay someone to design a cam for your motor.
Now has there been some pompousity of some involved? Yes there has, but it is warranted becuase it is his cash on the line if it does not work. Also, one can only be hounded for so long before they lash back.
I know I have learned from his sharing of information. I may have to contact Bret and pay him to design a cam for the specific needs I want from my motor. Mine requirements would be different then most on this site because I am building my car for more road coarse and auto-x usage.
Now has there been some pompousity of some involved? Yes there has, but it is warranted becuase it is his cash on the line if it does not work. Also, one can only be hounded for so long before they lash back.
I know I have learned from his sharing of information. I may have to contact Bret and pay him to design a cam for the specific needs I want from my motor. Mine requirements would be different then most on this site because I am building my car for more road coarse and auto-x usage.