Steve - Race Eng

iTrader: (1)

I attached a couple of photos of a C5R block I repaired earlier this year with two cracked liners. The second of the photos shows the crack a bit better during removal of one of the old liners.

Darton ductile iron liners don't crack like gray iron liners. That's why the fuel teams, Force, Schumacher, Bernstein, etc. rely on Darton sleeves.

Steve

Boosted LS1

Unusual crack Steve, looks like it's going around the bore. I've seen a fair few of those thin centrifugal liners with cracks over here, all caused by bad management.

Mike.

Chicago Crew UnderBoss

iTrader: (1)

LATE MODEL ENGINE (LME) one of the premier LS series engine builders/tuners on this forum who build an AWESOME product and whose customer service is SECOND TO NONE!!!

93TAWicked1

iTrader: (28)

Very interested reading, I've had the "itch" to pull the motor and add some more cubes especially since I'm running stock rods w\arp's.

I was wondering if the LS7 would be a better starting point than my wet sleeved LS1 block. Good to hear it at least has its positives and negatives over the new LS7! I was a little skeptical because the car originally had an older dry sleeved block that had problems.

Now I just have to get off my but and pull a perfectly good 388 apart

Steve - Race Eng

iTrader: (1)

You are better off building on the LS1 MID block for both cost and strength.

I dry sleeve quite a few LS7 blocks with high strength Darton dry liners. The LS1 MID is stronger with it's .230" thick ductile iron liners. Cylinders stay rounder in service as well.

You can add steel caps to the LS1 if you want. The powdered metal stock caps however are perfectly adequate for most builds.

Steve

BOB CLYDE

Good info. Steve, thanks. So if the LS1 is the most durable block, which year is the best to consider or is it better to start with a LS2 or LS7? I know LS1 went through at least 3, maybe 4 casting numbers between 97-04 so which do you think would be the best year block to start with for a road race motor? Wet or Dry?

Thanks in advance

Steve - Race Eng

iTrader: (1)

Bob,

I've done both wet and dry sleeved blocks for road race applications. The wet sleeved blocks require Evan's coolant for best results. You can get away with water wetter for race use but you must have enough in there to keep the exterior surface of the sleeves from rusting.

Any year LS1 block will work. The early blocks (mid '99 and older) do not have the rear oil galley cross over machined. I have a CNC program to machine the rear cross over in the early blocks as well as the iron blocks which also lack the cross over. The LS1 is preferable to the LS6 for MID sleeving. I can MID sleeve the LS2 blocks as well. Darton will soon have MID sleeves for the LS7.

I dry sleeve both LS2 and LS7 blocks, as well as C5R blocks. Since the coolant is not in contact with the sleeve, there is no real issue with coolants in case there is a track restriction on coolants. The only advantage of the LS7 block over the LS2 is the doweled steel main caps. The stock caps on the LS2 are quite adequate for most applications. One can put steel caps on the LS2 block for high horsepower (blower or nitrous) use.

It all depends on how much you have to pay for the LS7 core.

I myself prefer the MID wet sleeved blocks because the cylinders stay much rounder in service that they will with a dry sleeved block.

Steve

BOB CLYDE

Thanks Steve, I've got a 99 LS1 bare block, a 1168 LS6 block but I've been contemplating LS2 sleeved or stock LS7 too. I just can't decide which is better for my needs both for function and practicality. I can have the LS2 for $850 and the LS7 for $2250. I don't want to run antifreeze because like you said some tracks don't allow it so I won't run it and that way I don't have to worry with it and I always use water wetter if nothing more than to lube the pump.

Thanks again.

BOB CLYDE

I forgot to ask, looking at the block, how can I tell if my 99 block has the crossover or not and once the sleeves are done and the crossover is done are there any differences between any of the LS1 variations at that point? I've heard arguments both ways about the LS6 block, some say better because it's lighter, others say worse because its weaker. Whats your take? Is that the reason you don't like the LS6 as much?

fuzzyfine

iTrader: (1)

Steve,
Great information. What is the cost of the LS7 block?

BOB CLYDE

sdpc has them for under $2400

Ryne @ CMS

iTrader: (10)

steve can you dry sleeve a L92 block???

fuzzyfine

iTrader: (1)

Is that a bare block or with all the fixings?

Big_D

wow.. i dont know if anyone posted what i am saying but......


resleeving the block is a stupid idea.. in my opinion, because the amount of money you pay for ALL that to work out you might as well buy something else.. not unless you got money like that.. so if you want to do it.. just think about what they have to do to get those sleeves out.. you think that block is going ever going to be the same? you might as well just save the money and buy new...................

cybernco

Hi Big D,

Although I'm really looking forward to Steve's reply to the L92 block possibility, I thought I'd give you a quick reply first.

The concept of resleeving the LSx block is to obtain a larger cubic inch engine or more structurally sound engine than possible from a new GM engine. What type of new engine were you referring to Big D?

Big_D

have you looked at the new Warhawk blocks from world products.. you can make them 454 cubic inches.. and they are aluminum small blocks.. they arrived the c5r block.. and they are ls series acceptable meaning they will accept ls components.. i am shure they have it on tha website.. i mean you sound like your pretty serious if you want to resleeve a block

Steve - Race Eng

iTrader: (1)

The Darton LS7 style dry sleeve should work in the L92.

I have not done one yet but it should be no problem.

Steve

Steve - Race Eng

iTrader: (1)

The LS7 Darton dry liner which I helped design, will go to 4.185" bore normally aspirated. Couple that with a 4.250" stroke and you have 468 cubic inches.

The wet MID liners will go to 4.200" bore and will take blower and nitrous at that bore in the LS1 or LS2 blocks. I suspect the L92 block is identical internally to the LS2. At 4.200" bore and 4.250" stroke you end up with 471 cubic inches.

Steve

tlaselva

Steve, don't mean to question your opinion, but I had a Dart Wet Sleeve block with a damaged sleeve within 2000 miles, with only about a dozen easy runs down the track, N/A.

Contrary to my better judgement, I went with a sleeved block instead of a C5-R b/c I was assured by my tuner the DWS block would easily handle the power the N/A engine was going to make, (580rwhp, 540rwtq).

So I'm a little leary in suggesting a sleeved block to anyone. Not sure if I just encountered a bad block, or what I constantly hear from my 'circle of friends' that sleeved blocks are just not reliable.

99Fbody99

Your not the only one.

Hell, I had a customers MID block that didnt make to 3k miles at 10 psi boost before pissing into the coolant. It was also done Via Steve at Race engines inc no less.

The motor has been sporting an LS7 block for the last 15k or so with no issues.

Dave