Sleeved LS2 v. LS7
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Sleeved LS2 v. LS7
*****/cons of either power plant? Trying to find the best combo for a 427. Any problems with the mains on the LS7? Dry v. wet sump? Some of you guys have alot more brain power than I have with these engines, educate me on what you think. Any opinion would help.
#4
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It depends on what you want and the costs. The LS7 was more than the sleeved LS2 and had no boring options. There have been talks of lower pricing, but I have yet to see it. The resleeved LS2, done by one of 2 shops, (Katech or R.E.D), should be the best bet IMO. Using the LS2 case with the Darton LS7 sleeves allows for alot more bore options, thus more cubes for less money. You also get longer sleeves, which allows for the use of longer strokes, which once again equals more cubes. The only advantage to the LS7 is billet mains, and I see no use for them unless your going for 1000 hp. In a cubic inch battle, the sleeved case is far superior to the LS7.
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Just ordered my 427 LS7 from LME and the price of the block went down something like 700 bucks!
It really did go down because I waited until they had the new pricing before I ordered.
I'm going NA so I wasn't concerned about any strength issues, and now that the LS7 block is cheaper than a sleeved block, it was a no brainer for me.
Even Brian at LME said he would do the LS7 block over the LS2 sleeved for various reasons including the main caps are better. You won't go wrong either way but the LS7 is now damn affordable.
Matt
It really did go down because I waited until they had the new pricing before I ordered.
I'm going NA so I wasn't concerned about any strength issues, and now that the LS7 block is cheaper than a sleeved block, it was a no brainer for me.
Even Brian at LME said he would do the LS7 block over the LS2 sleeved for various reasons including the main caps are better. You won't go wrong either way but the LS7 is now damn affordable.
Matt
#6
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Originally Posted by MGGLS1
Just ordered my 427 LS7 from LME and the price of the block went down something like 700 bucks!
It really did go down because I waited until they had the new pricing before I ordered.
I'm going NA so I wasn't concerned about any strength issues, and now that the LS7 block is cheaper than a sleeved block, it was a no brainer for me.
Even Brian at LME said he would do the LS7 block over the LS2 sleeved for various reasons including the main caps are better. You won't go wrong either way but the LS7 is now damn affordable.
Matt
It really did go down because I waited until they had the new pricing before I ordered.
I'm going NA so I wasn't concerned about any strength issues, and now that the LS7 block is cheaper than a sleeved block, it was a no brainer for me.
Even Brian at LME said he would do the LS7 block over the LS2 sleeved for various reasons including the main caps are better. You won't go wrong either way but the LS7 is now damn affordable.
Matt
Brian is the man. I have dealt with him in the past and I would put LME up against Katech any day. If Brian recommends the LS7 over the resleeved LS2 I would not question his opinion the guy knows what he is doing. Good luck with your build. I think you will be very happy you went with LME.
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I talked to Brian at length about what they do to their LS7, I liked what I heard. Since this is for a 69 I'm trying to determine the oil issues with the conversion/swap.
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#9
Who the hell's LME??
I wonder what the weight difference between the two blocks is? One being the LS7 block and the other being a sleeved LS2 done by some of the two shops just mentioned.
I wonder what the weight difference between the two blocks is? One being the LS7 block and the other being a sleeved LS2 done by some of the two shops just mentioned.
#10
FormerVendor
The sleeves in the LS7 are not as strong as the aftermarket ductile iron sleeves and the ones on the end cylinders crack on power adder cars usually or eventually where they have the gap between the block and the sleeve. I do think the LS7 is great for a more normal or NA only buildup for sure. It is a very nice block.
#11
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Originally Posted by 03 BUSA
Brian is the man. I have dealt with him in the past and I would put LME up against Katech any day.
Originally Posted by 383ss
how bout a resleeved LS1? is there really any advantage of an LS2 over it?
Last edited by Beast96Z; 12-24-2006 at 11:58 AM.
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Originally Posted by Beast96Z
Katech and LME aren't even near the same level. You talking about a fully staffed engineering, product development, C5R race team vs. a engine building shop in Houston. I'm sure LME is great with there engine building, but they can't even begin to compete with Katech. Just 2 diffrent levels there. Money being no object, between the 2, I'd have to let Katech build mine.
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Originally Posted by Beast96Z
Katech and LME aren't even near the same level. You talking about a fully staffed engineering, product development, C5R race team vs. a engine building shop in Houston. I'm sure LME is great with there engine building, but they can't even begin to compete with Katech. Just 2 diffrent levels there. Money being no object, between the 2, I'd have to let Katech build mine.
Well, it's 2 diffrent sleeves. The LS1 uses the MID block, which is great, but more expensive. The LS2 block is dry sleeved. Dry sleeving a LS1 dosen't allow a safe overbore because of the the placement of the water jackets in the LS1 block. The LS2 block is solid inbetween the cylinders which allowed for a thicker sleeve and more support thus allowing more safe bore and a stronger block. The MID wet sleeve LS1 would be the strongest of any of the blocks talked about due to the fact that it removes all the material between the LS1 cylinders and uses siamesed sleeves to replace that area. At this time, the LS1 MID and the LS2 dry allow the same safe over bore, but the LS1 is going to be stronger for the power adder guys.
Well, it's 2 diffrent sleeves. The LS1 uses the MID block, which is great, but more expensive. The LS2 block is dry sleeved. Dry sleeving a LS1 dosen't allow a safe overbore because of the the placement of the water jackets in the LS1 block. The LS2 block is solid inbetween the cylinders which allowed for a thicker sleeve and more support thus allowing more safe bore and a stronger block. The MID wet sleeve LS1 would be the strongest of any of the blocks talked about due to the fact that it removes all the material between the LS1 cylinders and uses siamesed sleeves to replace that area. At this time, the LS1 MID and the LS2 dry allow the same safe over bore, but the LS1 is going to be stronger for the power adder guys.
I thought RED was doing LS2 wet sleeves now also ??? that is what I was referring too. I'm wondering if there is any advantage of an ls2 MID over an LS1 MID. I'm doubt it strength wise, but anything else?
also, an dry lined LS2 with an LS7 sleeve, will only go to 4.190, with an ls2 sleeve it will go to 4.155, an ls1 MID will go to 4.200. as far as I know anyway...
Last edited by 383ss; 12-24-2006 at 09:05 PM.
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Ls2, Ls7
Yes, I am now doing MID installs on LS2 blocks. Attached is a photo of the first block I did being machined. Darton will soon have MID sleeves for the LS7 blocks as well.
I consider the LS1 with MID sleeves the strongest of the sleeved blocks. Second would be the LS2 with MID until the MID sleeves become available for the LS7.
The LS7 is a nice piece. I have a couple left here. I'm going to save one for a build for myself.
I resleeve quite a few LS7 blocks with Darton dry liners. Almost as many as the LS2. The advantage of sleeving the LS7 is the ability to go larger bore and much greater strength of the Darton ductile iron material. The stock factory sleeves have a tendency to crack if you really lean on the engine, nitrous or even normally aspirated. Erik is sending one in to resleeve. One of my CNC machine customers called me last week telling me of his customer's NA block that cracked.
In any event, if the stock sleeves crack, the LS7 blocks can be repaired.
Steve
I consider the LS1 with MID sleeves the strongest of the sleeved blocks. Second would be the LS2 with MID until the MID sleeves become available for the LS7.
The LS7 is a nice piece. I have a couple left here. I'm going to save one for a build for myself.
I resleeve quite a few LS7 blocks with Darton dry liners. Almost as many as the LS2. The advantage of sleeving the LS7 is the ability to go larger bore and much greater strength of the Darton ductile iron material. The stock factory sleeves have a tendency to crack if you really lean on the engine, nitrous or even normally aspirated. Erik is sending one in to resleeve. One of my CNC machine customers called me last week telling me of his customer's NA block that cracked.
In any event, if the stock sleeves crack, the LS7 blocks can be repaired.
Steve
Originally Posted by 383ss
I thought RED was doing LS2 wet sleeves now also ??? that is what I was referring too. I'm wondering if there is any advantage of an ls2 MID over an LS1 MID. I'm doubt it strength wise, but anything else?
also, an dry lined LS2 with an LS7 sleeve, will only go to 4.190, with an ls2 sleeve it will go to 4.155, an ls1 MID will go to 4.200. as far as I know anyway...
also, an dry lined LS2 with an LS7 sleeve, will only go to 4.190, with an ls2 sleeve it will go to 4.155, an ls1 MID will go to 4.200. as far as I know anyway...
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Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development
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760-630-0450
web: www.raceenginedevelopment.com/
e-mail: race-engine-development@***.net
#15
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Originally Posted by 383ss
I thought RED was doing LS2 wet sleeves now also ??? that is what I was referring too. I'm wondering if there is any advantage of an ls2 MID over an LS1 MID. I'm doubt it strength wise, but anything else?
also, an dry lined LS2 with an LS7 sleeve, will only go to 4.190, with an ls2 sleeve it will go to 4.155, an ls1 MID will go to 4.200. as far as I know anyway...
also, an dry lined LS2 with an LS7 sleeve, will only go to 4.190, with an ls2 sleeve it will go to 4.155, an ls1 MID will go to 4.200. as far as I know anyway...
#16
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4.200" bore
I have done several LS1 MID's to 4.185" bore. The limiting factor on going to 4.200" was the head gasket. There was a tolerance problem with some gaskets overlapping the bores if you went much bigger than 4.185".
Cometic is correcting this problem with a 4.210" bore gasket made to closer tolerances. That is as big as can be made by them by the way.
Steve
Cometic is correcting this problem with a 4.210" bore gasket made to closer tolerances. That is as big as can be made by them by the way.
Steve
Originally Posted by Beast96Z
I wasn't sure if the MID was avalible in 4.200" yet, so I kept my size on the safe side. I know there was talk about it, but wasn't sure if it ever happened. Either way, it looks like Steve just cleared it up.
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The stock factory sleeves have a tendency to crack if you really lean on the engine, nitrous or even normally aspirated
Steve, I'm going to jump in and ask how much you mean by "lean on it" with a NA motor. I'm only looking for an increase of aprox. 100 extra ponies with a stock engine.
Steve, I'm going to jump in and ask how much you mean by "lean on it" with a NA motor. I'm only looking for an increase of aprox. 100 extra ponies with a stock engine.
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Originally Posted by ss dave
The stock factory sleeves have a tendency to crack if you really lean on the engine, nitrous or even normally aspirated
Steve, I'm going to jump in and ask how much you mean by "lean on it" with a NA motor. I'm only looking for an increase of aprox. 100 extra ponies with a stock engine.
Steve, I'm going to jump in and ask how much you mean by "lean on it" with a NA motor. I'm only looking for an increase of aprox. 100 extra ponies with a stock engine.
#19
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Lean on it
If the engine detonates the stock sleeves will most likely crack. Too much compression, too lean, too hot a plug, bad tuning (too much ignition advance).
This cracking due to detonation is typical of any late engine be it LS, Honda, Nissan, etc. I just repaired a three cylinder Rotax See Doo racing engine with a cracked liner due to poor tuning.
Keep it out of detonation and you should be fine with an an extra hundred horsepower build.
Steve
This cracking due to detonation is typical of any late engine be it LS, Honda, Nissan, etc. I just repaired a three cylinder Rotax See Doo racing engine with a cracked liner due to poor tuning.
Keep it out of detonation and you should be fine with an an extra hundred horsepower build.
Steve
Originally Posted by ss dave
The stock factory sleeves have a tendency to crack if you really lean on the engine, nitrous or even normally aspirated
Steve, I'm going to jump in and ask how much you mean by "lean on it" with a NA motor. I'm only looking for an increase of aprox. 100 extra ponies with a stock engine.
Steve, I'm going to jump in and ask how much you mean by "lean on it" with a NA motor. I'm only looking for an increase of aprox. 100 extra ponies with a stock engine.
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760-630-0450
web: www.raceenginedevelopment.com/
e-mail: race-engine-development@***.net
Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development
Oceanside, Ca.
760-630-0450
web: www.raceenginedevelopment.com/
e-mail: race-engine-development@***.net
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Here is something related. C5R blocks vs sleeved blocks
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/310618-c5r-block-info-vs-sleeved-blocks.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/310618-c5r-block-info-vs-sleeved-blocks.html
Bottom line, this block is not a “reverse engineered” piece. In-fact GM Racing made some developmental siamese-bore castings by modifying the stock cores from the factory production blocks. These developmental blocks failed the durability test! That is why the C5R block was designed!!!! The original production LS1/LS6 design would not hold up to the 24hr durability testing at the HP levels required to win the 24 hours of Le Man. The new LS7 block (soon to be released!) was designed from the continuation of lessons learned from the C5R racing program, -- good news for me and you! A production big bore block with a racing influence.