Ms4 Cam In A Heavy Car...........
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Teching In
Joined: May 2007
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Ms4 Cam In A Heavy Car........... I tried this over in the caddy section but cant get an answer. I am going for a max effort cam only cts-v and really saw some big numbers out of this cam. I dont want too much torque down low because the V's rear end is garbage. Can someone comment on this cam for this application? This is a street car that will be running long tubes, no cats, and cut outs. Thanks for the help, I'm new to cams even though I've ridden in a couple big cammed ls1's 
This is my first post so hopefully I can get some help. I have this stuff on the way- Kooks headers, no cats, DMH cutouts, l.a.p.d. dyno tune, UD pulley. I wanted to do the MS4 cam for max power. I was told by texas speed and LG for the g5x4 it would be a good choice. I spent over an hour on the phone with Al over at L.A.P.D. and he said the cam wasnt the best choice because of the weight of the car. He was rattling off everything from bleed off versus compression. I didnt understand a lot of it. I have always loved huge cams and have seen guys putting up huge numbers. I'm not doing heads or anything else to the car, I'll only have it another 2 years. I will have some sticky 19" rubber to go with it. My question is, for this application and me looking for the fastest car light from light, is this cam a good choice? I'm not looking for something small and am willing to put up with surging etc... (Wont happen with a good tune). I gave al the Cam card today and he says he will study the cylinder pressure, bleed off etc and get back to me with this cam or another idea to meet my goals. Anyone have ideas?
This is my first post so hopefully I can get some help. I have this stuff on the way- Kooks headers, no cats, DMH cutouts, l.a.p.d. dyno tune, UD pulley. I wanted to do the MS4 cam for max power. I was told by texas speed and LG for the g5x4 it would be a good choice. I spent over an hour on the phone with Al over at L.A.P.D. and he said the cam wasnt the best choice because of the weight of the car. He was rattling off everything from bleed off versus compression. I didnt understand a lot of it. I have always loved huge cams and have seen guys putting up huge numbers. I'm not doing heads or anything else to the car, I'll only have it another 2 years. I will have some sticky 19" rubber to go with it. My question is, for this application and me looking for the fastest car light from light, is this cam a good choice? I'm not looking for something small and am willing to put up with surging etc... (Wont happen with a good tune). I gave al the Cam card today and he says he will study the cylinder pressure, bleed off etc and get back to me with this cam or another idea to meet my goals. Anyone have ideas?
Launching!
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 235
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From: Illinois
I don't know what the caddy has in it, LS2? Assuming it is a LS2, I would be confident to say that all the research was put in before the cam was sold as the MS4, or as a production cam. No further research is needed to establish if it is a usable cam since there are quite a few people using it. If it were me, I would go with the LG cam. I don't know Al from the L.A.P.D, but the two mentioned cams were previosuly researched by well qualified individuales as well as quite a few users. Don't be afraid to go with eaither one of them. Again, assuming it's an LS2.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: May 2007
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Originally Posted by slow14U
I don't know what the caddy has in it, LS2? Assuming it is a LS2, I would be confident to say that all the research was put in before the cam was sold as the MS4, or as a production cam. No further research is needed to establish if it is a usable cam since there are quite a few people using it. If it were me, I would go with the LG cam. I don't know Al from the L.A.P.D, but the two mentioned cams were previosuly researched by well qualified individuales as well as quite a few users. Don't be afraid to go with eaither one of them. Again, assuming it's an LS2.
Launching!
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 235
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From: Illinois
I really don't know how weight affects it. I know mild steel caged, 12-bolted, subframed and all the extra suspensions components and chassis components cars that with all the added weight, and with heavy drivers, probably tipping the scale at 225, made the car at race weight 3850, they have no problem because of weight. I wouldnt worry too much. A good tune will take care of it. Is it an auto? Let me state my point, weight of the car shouldn't determine what cam goes in the car. Alot of GTO's weight around that and do the same. Good luck, I think that your car is going to be sick! A caddy that sounds like a cammed f-bod. I like it!
If you're looking for light to light performance you might want to consider one of TSP's Torquer grinds. They seem to have a healthy mid range/upper powerband. My MS4 really wants to be revved to make power. It comes on in the mid/upper RPMs and pulls like a raped ape until 6800... That's where my limiter is. I accidentally hit it a couple times because I wasn't used to the car revving that high that quickly. 
If you want max power something like the MS4 is a good choice. However from what I've read that for primarily street cars many people are happier with a slightly smaller cam with a fatter mid range.
FWIW, I'm on a mail order TSP tune and surging is minimal. I'm sure TSP can tune it out once I go in for a dyno tune.
If you want max power something like the MS4 is a good choice. However from what I've read that for primarily street cars many people are happier with a slightly smaller cam with a fatter mid range.FWIW, I'm on a mail order TSP tune and surging is minimal. I'm sure TSP can tune it out once I go in for a dyno tune.
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TECH Resident
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 875
Likes: 2
From: Portland Oregon
What are the cam numbers? Is this the TSP 239/242 .649/.609? I like the duration, I am considering the same numbers for a 427, but .649 lift on the intake is a big number.
1. Are you planning to remove the motor to flycut the pistons? You may have P/V clearance issues.
2. What are you going to use for valve springs. .650 lift is going to take a lot of spring.
1. Are you planning to remove the motor to flycut the pistons? You may have P/V clearance issues.
2. What are you going to use for valve springs. .650 lift is going to take a lot of spring.
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Verdad Gallardo Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: May 2007
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Originally Posted by racecar
What are the cam numbers? Is this the TSP 239/242 .649/.609? I like the duration, I am considering the same numbers for a 427, but .649 lift on the intake is a big number.
1. Are you planning to remove the motor to flycut the pistons? You may have P/V clearance issues.
2. What are you going to use for valve springs. .650 lift is going to take a lot of spring.
1. Are you planning to remove the motor to flycut the pistons? You may have P/V clearance issues.
2. What are you going to use for valve springs. .650 lift is going to take a lot of spring.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: May 2007
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Originally Posted by Demon_Speeding
If you're looking for light to light performance you might want to consider one of TSP's Torquer grinds. They seem to have a healthy mid range/upper powerband. My MS4 really wants to be revved to make power. It comes on in the mid/upper RPMs and pulls like a raped ape until 6800... That's where my limiter is. I accidentally hit it a couple times because I wasn't used to the car revving that high that quickly. If you want max power something like the MS4 is a good choice. However from what I've read that for primarily street cars many people are happier with a slightly smaller cam with a fatter mid range.
FWIW, I'm on a mail order TSP tune and surging is minimal. I'm sure TSP can tune it out once I go in for a dyno tune.
If you want max power something like the MS4 is a good choice. However from what I've read that for primarily street cars many people are happier with a slightly smaller cam with a fatter mid range.FWIW, I'm on a mail order TSP tune and surging is minimal. I'm sure TSP can tune it out once I go in for a dyno tune.
i know its not one of your options, but i had the TSP 233/239 595/605 113 cam and it was great. cam ls6intake long tubes and tune made 399 on stock 99 shity heads.
power band felt like 2100ish - 6500, perfect not reving to high for me.
power band felt like 2100ish - 6500, perfect not reving to high for me.
TECH Resident
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 875
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From: Portland Oregon
I agree with the concept that the power band will be pretty high with the MS4 cam.
I have a TSP 233/239 and it makes peak HP at 6000-6200. That is perfect for shifting at 6600. If the peak was any higher, you would be spending most of your WOT time on the low side of the power curve. I think you would be real happy with the 233/239. I have no complaints about it. I would not say that it idles smooth, but it runs great at 3000 and up, really comes on at 4000-6500.
I have a TSP 233/239 and it makes peak HP at 6000-6200. That is perfect for shifting at 6600. If the peak was any higher, you would be spending most of your WOT time on the low side of the power curve. I think you would be real happy with the 233/239. I have no complaints about it. I would not say that it idles smooth, but it runs great at 3000 and up, really comes on at 4000-6500.
Big and small cams are comparable to single turbo selection . To big and its slow dogshit spool , strong performance no doubt but go to small and you blow the best hooking street radials off and also falls off before peak . Comprimise of the land called '' Inbetween '' .. 
Something with agressive lobes as is the MS4 but smaller duration to shift the rpm scale to whats more usable power range for a stockish longblock . Pick the valve events so the cam makes strong torque down low , strong midrange and still pulls hard at 6500-6700 .
CompCams LSK lobes 227/235 .639''/.649'' 110+0lsa {custom ground TSP can grind for you} .
The duration numbers @ .200 are 153/160 , In XE-R lobes its comparable to a 232 / 240 @.050 cam which has 153/161 @ .200 .
Recap: Smaller duration for lowend , agressive lobes so it makes more peak power #'s and 0 advance 110lsa /110icl so it dosen't fall of at 6,500rpm.
Something with agressive lobes as is the MS4 but smaller duration to shift the rpm scale to whats more usable power range for a stockish longblock . Pick the valve events so the cam makes strong torque down low , strong midrange and still pulls hard at 6500-6700 .
CompCams LSK lobes 227/235 .639''/.649'' 110+0lsa {custom ground TSP can grind for you} .
The duration numbers @ .200 are 153/160 , In XE-R lobes its comparable to a 232 / 240 @.050 cam which has 153/161 @ .200 .
Recap: Smaller duration for lowend , agressive lobes so it makes more peak power #'s and 0 advance 110lsa /110icl so it dosen't fall of at 6,500rpm.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: May 2007
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Originally Posted by cws T/A
Big and small cams are comparable to single turbo selection . To big and its slow dogshit spool , strong performance no doubt but go to small and you blow the best hooking street radials off and also falls off before peak . Comprimise of the land called '' Inbetween '' ..
Something with agressive lobes as is the MS4 but smaller duration to shift the rpm scale to whats more usable power range for a stockish longblock . Pick the valve events so the cam makes strong torque down low , strong midrange and still pulls hard at 6500-6700 .
CompCams LSK lobes 227/235 .639''/.649'' 110+0lsa {custom ground TSP can grind for you} .
The duration numbers @ .200 are 153/160 , In XE-R lobes its comparable to a 232 / 240 @.050 cam which has 153/161 @ .200 .
Recap: Smaller duration for lowend , agressive lobes so it makes more peak power #'s and 0 advance 110lsa /110icl so it dosen't fall of at 6,500rpm.
Something with agressive lobes as is the MS4 but smaller duration to shift the rpm scale to whats more usable power range for a stockish longblock . Pick the valve events so the cam makes strong torque down low , strong midrange and still pulls hard at 6500-6700 .
CompCams LSK lobes 227/235 .639''/.649'' 110+0lsa {custom ground TSP can grind for you} .
The duration numbers @ .200 are 153/160 , In XE-R lobes its comparable to a 232 / 240 @.050 cam which has 153/161 @ .200 .
Recap: Smaller duration for lowend , agressive lobes so it makes more peak power #'s and 0 advance 110lsa /110icl so it dosen't fall of at 6,500rpm.
Thanks again!
