Difference between 112/113 LSA?
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From: Kannapolis, NC
Difference between 112/113 LSA? I guess the issue is what to do more than what's the difference. We are on our 4th cam swap just trying some different things. This 4th cam is real close to our 2nd cam which was on a 112 +4 with a little different lift numbers and cam timing events. Not a real big difference. With this 4th cam being so close just on a 113+4 I was wondering if it would justify even trying it or would it be real close to the other cam? Also, with the L92 heads what will the 113 do differently than the 112 if anything? The L92 did not like either 110 cams we have tried but loved the 112 so I am wondering if it is possible to go too far the other way. We are trying to get the torque back in the lower rpm's but yet not have the cam fall off so early by doing so. Thanks for the help.
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From: Upstate NY
No offense intended, but perhaps you should be more concerned with getting all four valve events correct and accepting the LSA that results. In your situation, I would contact a good engine/cam design guy for a cam. Finding a good LS/L92 cam guy is the challenge. The best ones I know don't hang out here. My favorites are far from Kannapolis also.
Jon
Jon
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From: Kannapolis, NC
No offense intended, but perhaps you should be more concerned with getting all four valve events correct and accepting the LSA that results. In your situation, I would contact a good engine/cam design guy for a cam. Finding a good LS/L92 cam guy is the challenge. The best ones I know don't hang out here. My favorites are far from Kannapolis also.
Jon
Jon
I guess the issue is what to do more than what's the difference. We are on our 4th cam swap just trying some different things. This 4th cam is real close to our 2nd cam which was on a 112 +4 with a little different lift numbers and cam timing events. Not a real big difference. With this 4th cam being so close just on a 113+4 I was wondering if it would justify even trying it or would it be real close to the other cam? Also, with the L92 heads what will the 113 do differently than the 112 if anything? The L92 did not like either 110 cams we have tried but loved the 112 so I am wondering if it is possible to go too far the other way. We are trying to get the torque back in the lower rpm's but yet not have the cam fall off so early by doing so. Thanks for the help.
I guess the issue is what to do more than what's the difference. We are on our 4th cam swap just trying some different things. This 4th cam is real close to our 2nd cam which was on a 112 +4 with a little different lift numbers and cam timing events. Not a real big difference. With this 4th cam being so close just on a 113+4 I was wondering if it would justify even trying it or would it be real close to the other cam? Also, with the L92 heads what will the 113 do differently than the 112 if anything? The L92 did not like either 110 cams we have tried but loved the 112 so I am wondering if it is possible to go too far the other way. We are trying to get the torque back in the lower rpm's but yet not have the cam fall off so early by doing so. Thanks for the help.
What is the lift and duration?
sounds like you are wasting money if the only real change is 112+4 to 113+4. Since you like to experiment, put an adjustible chain in. Maybe your cam is fine if it is 112+0. Too little info here to say what to do other than I hope you enjoy switching cams and burning money.
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From: Nebraska
Like Deeavi said/asked...what is the duration of the cam your L92 liked?...all we know right now is that it was a 112LSA.. It sounds like you are making your ICL tighter (i.e.-advancing more than before, closing the intake valve soon) to get more compression and lowend torque?....if that's the case then I think it will help ....be sure to check your PTV clearance. There's also a really good L92 thread on this site with cam specs/results provided..
Provide some more information like:
the current 112 Cam Duration and ICL
stroke
rod length
bore
gasket size (bore and thickness)
deck clearance
pistons ...dish or dome how many cc's
is this a daily driver?
what octane of gas is available to you
Provide some more information like:
the current 112 Cam Duration and ICL
stroke
rod length
bore
gasket size (bore and thickness)
deck clearance
pistons ...dish or dome how many cc's
is this a daily driver?
what octane of gas is available to you
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From: Kannapolis, NC
The cam that I just got done putting in last night is a Cam Motion.
236/244 113 + 4 .629/.612
ivo 8.5
ivc 48.3
evo 59.1
evc 5.5
The cam that the car liked before was as follows.
234/242 112LSA +4
5 degree BTDC IVO
49 degree ABDC IVC
53 degree BBDC EVO
9 degree ATDC EVC
14 degrees of overlap
And the cam I just pulled out that it did not like was .
239/248 110 + 2
ivo 11
ivc 47
evo 56
evc 12
236/244 113 + 4 .629/.612
ivo 8.5
ivc 48.3
evo 59.1
evc 5.5
The cam that the car liked before was as follows.
234/242 112LSA +4
5 degree BTDC IVO
49 degree ABDC IVC
53 degree BBDC EVO
9 degree ATDC EVC
14 degrees of overlap
And the cam I just pulled out that it did not like was .
239/248 110 + 2
ivo 11
ivc 47
evo 56
evc 12
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Verdad Gallardo Thread Starter
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Compression is around 12.0:1
-3cc valve reliefs
.005 out of the hole
4.125 bore by 6.0 stroke
.040 gasket
.035 quench
not a daily driver by any means. 93 octane
-3cc valve reliefs
.005 out of the hole
4.125 bore by 6.0 stroke
.040 gasket
.035 quench
not a daily driver by any means. 93 octane
Last edited by 03 BUSA; Mar 21, 2008 at 11:34 AM.
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From: Kannapolis, NC
sounds like you are wasting money if the only real change is 112+4 to 113+4. Since you like to experiment, put an adjustible chain in. Maybe your cam is fine if it is 112+0. Too little info here to say what to do other than I hope you enjoy switching cams and burning money.
Actually every cam was free as some R&D for your info and cam swaps take 3 hours. Not too bad for some free parts to try out. I help some vendors do some r&d and I get to keep what works. This last cam on the 113+4 was a replacement cam for my original and this is what Cam Motion had specd out. All the others were R&D.
I believe he meant if the cam is spec'd (specifically the opening and closing valve events) correctly, the LSA is a by product (or result) of those events that maximizes power.
Last edited by DrkPhx; Mar 21, 2008 at 12:59 PM.
How much tuning are you doing between swaps? The 110 LSA cam was 10* more overlap than the 112 cam. If you can get cams for R&D, I'd look at 236/242 110 110. It brings the overlap down a bit but still will make for a very strong powerband.
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From: Nebraska
03 Busa,
I show the 234/242 cam w/112+4 closing the intake at 45 (not the 49 you posted) ABDC per my calculator....can you double check the degree on this?....that would explain why the bottom end torque is better with the 234/242 112+4 cam vs. the 236/244 113+4....I show the 236 cam having a 47 ABDC IVC...you're looking for torque right?....
I show the 234/242 cam w/112+4 closing the intake at 45 (not the 49 you posted) ABDC per my calculator....can you double check the degree on this?....that would explain why the bottom end torque is better with the 234/242 112+4 cam vs. the 236/244 113+4....I show the 236 cam having a 47 ABDC IVC...you're looking for torque right?....
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From: Kannapolis, NC
03 Busa,
I show the 234/242 cam w/112+4 closing the intake at 45 (not the 49 you posted) ABDC per my calculator....can you double check the degree on this?....that would explain why the bottom end torque is better with the 234/242 112+4 cam vs. the 236/244 113+4....I show the 236 cam having a 47 ABDC IVC...you're looking for torque right?....
I show the 234/242 cam w/112+4 closing the intake at 45 (not the 49 you posted) ABDC per my calculator....can you double check the degree on this?....that would explain why the bottom end torque is better with the 234/242 112+4 cam vs. the 236/244 113+4....I show the 236 cam having a 47 ABDC IVC...you're looking for torque right?....
These are the numbers I was given by one of the cam guys on here.
Even the cam I suggested comes in a bit high in DCR. 1* of retard would make it safer and still very torquey.
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Ran the 113 + 4 last 2 days and the car feels lazy down low. I am going to get LG to send me another G5X3 on a 112 +4 and let her eat. That was by far the best cam out of the 4 to date. It did not lope at idle like I would like and it would only pull till about 6200 but the torque down low that thing had was unbelievable. I just don't understand how these 2 cams are so close together yet act tottaly different. It must be the difference in the slight valve events between the 2. Anyone interested in the 236/244? I did see a 2008 ZO6 today that put down 540 with headers and a G5X3. I just do not want to have to wind the thing out all the time to get any kind of power from it. The only thing that really scares me is pulling it apart 4 times now in 2 months. I torque everything but get concerned of the threads getting weak. Thanks for all the opinions guys.
I just got my 427 running. I have a cam very similar to the ones you put in yours. It supposed to be 236/242 - 612/615 112LSA+2.
It actually checked out to be 238/244 - 612/615 on Thunder Racing's Cam Pro Plus machine. So, cams are not always what they are advertised to be.
Having siad that, my car is very STRONG! I have not dynoed it yet and don't plan on it until I get some miles on it, but I know by feel that it is making alot of power and torque! It is a little scarry. Of course I am running AFR Heads which probaly will test out different than yours anyway. When I get it dynoed I will post up what it does. I am not one of these break it in hard guys, so we will see! But for now I could not be more pleased with the results.
Good luck with yours.
It actually checked out to be 238/244 - 612/615 on Thunder Racing's Cam Pro Plus machine. So, cams are not always what they are advertised to be.
Having siad that, my car is very STRONG! I have not dynoed it yet and don't plan on it until I get some miles on it, but I know by feel that it is making alot of power and torque! It is a little scarry. Of course I am running AFR Heads which probaly will test out different than yours anyway. When I get it dynoed I will post up what it does. I am not one of these break it in hard guys, so we will see! But for now I could not be more pleased with the results.
Good luck with yours.