View Poll Results: Which piston is best for boost and long lasting
Diamond
91
36.69%
Wiseco
140
56.45%
Other
17
6.85%
Voters: 248. You may not vote on this poll
Diamond or Wiseco Pistons
06-29-2009, 09:38 AM
#81
FormerVendor
Normally, My vote would go to wiseco also. Its been our piston of choice in every motor we build for 3 years now. But lately their ordering/shipping has gone to ****. As of Friday, we have had to switch over 4 of our "Current" builds to diamonds, because they cant seem to get off their azz and deliver pistons. Were talking about a 4.155, 4.070, 3.905, and a 4.005 shelf piston.
2 weeks ago, we were told they would be ready in 10 days. Then on friday, we were told not until the middle of july. So we were force to switch to Diamonds at the last minute. Diamond can get them to us in 5 days.
Sometimes you need to factor in every part of the build process into your vote. In this case, it pisses me off cause their screw ups are hurting MY shops flow of business.
2 weeks ago, we were told they would be ready in 10 days. Then on friday, we were told not until the middle of july. So we were force to switch to Diamonds at the last minute. Diamond can get them to us in 5 days.
Sometimes you need to factor in every part of the build process into your vote. In this case, it pisses me off cause their screw ups are hurting MY shops flow of business.
I can say that I have had the least problems by a mile from Wiseco on customs not counting delivery time. I've had to switch brands several times with people screwing up customs whereas I am still with Wiseco all the way from the beginning.
07-06-2009, 04:57 PM
#82
Teching In
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To be honest with you, there are major differences between all of the manufacturers. Cranks, rods, pistons, heads, etc. So many things that a average guy doesn't have the tools to measure or ways to test. I see racers on forums all the time defending manufacturers simply because they chose that manufacturers' parts for their own engine. Maybe a given manufacturer DID have the best piece at that time, but we as manufacturers are constantly battling to have the next best piece.
As people in the manufacturing industry, we're friendly with each other and we often hang out at shows and races etc. There are a few *********, but that's pretty rare because we all like cars. Here's the thing about pistons in particular, I'll quote my friend Tom Jung from Arias: "they're round and they go in the hole". To a certain extent that's true, but there are so many little things to making parts "right" and it's a constant battle to maintain the good things and improve on others. The question is whether you as a racer demand "the best" for your engine or can be happy with a part that simply fit your expectations. That's not always a bad thing if you're on a budget.
Those of us on the inside of the manufacturing industry see each others parts all the time. We KNOW who has the best part for a given market and it's not always us. We know which issues a given manufacturer has and whether they're making progress (or even care to). There's also a big difference in the AVERAGE quality of a piece company churns out versus what they CAN do for certain high end markets. I personally pride our company that even our "cost competitive" parts are made to a high grade even if they're a "low feature" piece. I hope that makes sense.
There are roughly 13 manufacturers of aftermarket pistons in the U.S. and most of us have been in business for a long time. To be in business for that long, a company carves out a niche and may have parts that excel in certain markets and fail in others. I should state that there are some manufacturers that kick *** in some markets, but couldn't make a LS part worth a damn. That's cause the owners simply "like" working with certain markets and choose be the best at what they know. When not in a public forum, I often give props to other manufacturers if they have a good piece for a given market, but I'll also protect my customers from manufacturers that don't if it means an engine might fail to perform or last.
As people in the manufacturing industry, we're friendly with each other and we often hang out at shows and races etc. There are a few *********, but that's pretty rare because we all like cars. Here's the thing about pistons in particular, I'll quote my friend Tom Jung from Arias: "they're round and they go in the hole". To a certain extent that's true, but there are so many little things to making parts "right" and it's a constant battle to maintain the good things and improve on others. The question is whether you as a racer demand "the best" for your engine or can be happy with a part that simply fit your expectations. That's not always a bad thing if you're on a budget.
Those of us on the inside of the manufacturing industry see each others parts all the time. We KNOW who has the best part for a given market and it's not always us. We know which issues a given manufacturer has and whether they're making progress (or even care to). There's also a big difference in the AVERAGE quality of a piece company churns out versus what they CAN do for certain high end markets. I personally pride our company that even our "cost competitive" parts are made to a high grade even if they're a "low feature" piece. I hope that makes sense.
There are roughly 13 manufacturers of aftermarket pistons in the U.S. and most of us have been in business for a long time. To be in business for that long, a company carves out a niche and may have parts that excel in certain markets and fail in others. I should state that there are some manufacturers that kick *** in some markets, but couldn't make a LS part worth a damn. That's cause the owners simply "like" working with certain markets and choose be the best at what they know. When not in a public forum, I often give props to other manufacturers if they have a good piece for a given market, but I'll also protect my customers from manufacturers that don't if it means an engine might fail to perform or last.
07-07-2009, 10:26 AM
#83
TECH Regular
compression compression compression if it's racegas. The biggest thing to getting decent dome volume out of the layed over pockets is minimizing valve pocket depth for your cam. I'd recommend working with an engine builder with a lot of experience with LS7 valve drops and various cams to help you dial these in...it's the difference between a "safe" 6cc dome and a "killer" 11cc dome. taperwall toolsteel pins are nice, skirt coatings a plus, I do like the ceramic heat barrier on road race engines to keep the temper in the pistons over long periods of wot.
07-07-2009, 11:09 AM
#84
TECH Apprentice
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[QUOTE=briannutter;11616134]Mike's not so happy with the situation now, but I can't really blame him for being pissed. It's tricky to make 440's work with nitrous/boost...even the smallest amount. The 1.050 compression height and thin lands resulting from a 4.100 or 4.125 stroke crank makes the tuning window very narrow.
That being said, 440's are becoming more common and it's Wiseco's job to make pistons stronger through evolution, but Mother Nature gives us and our competitors our lumps.
A design change was made for 2009 to our LS line to move from 1/16, 1/16 (about the same thickness as a 1.5, 1.5mm) top and 2nd rings to the 1.2 1.2 gfx ring. This give us another .030" worth of "real estate" to apply to the top ring land. Does this make the piston unbreakable-no, but it allows the customer a wider tuning window.
I had this issue a few years back (I am cubic-inch greedy) and so in '06 I used a piston for 4" stroke and a bastard-length rod to keep the c.h. freindly. I know it's not the cheapest solution, but if u are waiting for pistons, u can wait for rods. On the higher-end **** like Ti rods, there is no up-charge, and no extra lead-time. I have doped the hell out of mine plenty, lifted the heads and pushed water/passed fire through gaskets, but no other issues. Of course now that I'm running my mouth about it, I am sure the clock is ticking
That being said, 440's are becoming more common and it's Wiseco's job to make pistons stronger through evolution, but Mother Nature gives us and our competitors our lumps.
A design change was made for 2009 to our LS line to move from 1/16, 1/16 (about the same thickness as a 1.5, 1.5mm) top and 2nd rings to the 1.2 1.2 gfx ring. This give us another .030" worth of "real estate" to apply to the top ring land. Does this make the piston unbreakable-no, but it allows the customer a wider tuning window.
I had this issue a few years back (I am cubic-inch greedy) and so in '06 I used a piston for 4" stroke and a bastard-length rod to keep the c.h. freindly. I know it's not the cheapest solution, but if u are waiting for pistons, u can wait for rods. On the higher-end **** like Ti rods, there is no up-charge, and no extra lead-time. I have doped the hell out of mine plenty, lifted the heads and pushed water/passed fire through gaskets, but no other issues. Of course now that I'm running my mouth about it, I am sure the clock is ticking
07-08-2009, 10:31 AM
#86
FormerVendor
I think Ross is a good piston as well but they haven't spent the time with this engine like Wiseco and Diamond have so far at least. Wiseco even has several unifit pistons so you can run the LS7, L92, normal LS1 15 degree stuff and even heads like the TFS all with the same piston.
07-08-2009, 11:34 AM
#87
So I should not worry about mine? When they cam in we set them up next to other leading brands, WOW what a difference there was! But to be fair they are custom cut for extream boost with L92 heads, and the others were off shelf pistons not set up to the requirements we asked for, they were for other peoples set ups. Not really an apples to apples comparison. I am not trying to set anyone up either, I have just noticed or have not met anyone else running Ross in the LS engines and was starting to get conserned that I might have made a bad choice.
07-08-2009, 12:20 PM
#88
FormerVendor
Depends on how they were ordered and if the piston guy knew what the cylinder length and usage was etc. I have used many Ross pistons and never had any issues at all so they can make an excellent product but it's all down to the guy who ordered them.
The worst trainwreck ever was actually brought to me with Ross pistons but the shop that did it is legendary for screwing stuff up. The next worst was Diamond on another deal where the guy also ordered the pistons wrong and I've also had Wiseco's that were not what I would run that again were also spec'd by a shop that doesn not know what they are doing and does not do many LS1s either.
Anotherwords it was the shop that ordered these piston's fault and not the piston maker or at least not competely the piston maker as I know they can all make good pistons. GIGO as they say. Oh well back to my vacation for the day.
The worst trainwreck ever was actually brought to me with Ross pistons but the shop that did it is legendary for screwing stuff up. The next worst was Diamond on another deal where the guy also ordered the pistons wrong and I've also had Wiseco's that were not what I would run that again were also spec'd by a shop that doesn not know what they are doing and does not do many LS1s either.
Anotherwords it was the shop that ordered these piston's fault and not the piston maker or at least not competely the piston maker as I know they can all make good pistons. GIGO as they say. Oh well back to my vacation for the day.
So I should not worry about mine? When they cam in we set them up next to other leading brands, WOW what a difference there was! But to be fair they are custom cut for extream boost with L92 heads, and the others were off shelf pistons not set up to the requirements we asked for, they were for other peoples set ups. Not really an apples to apples comparison. I am not trying to set anyone up either, I have just noticed or have not met anyone else running Ross in the LS engines and was starting to get conserned that I might have made a bad choice.
