o2camaross

iTrader: (2)

hey stone what kind of power are you putting at the wheels? is it a m6 or a4

Stonev10

iTrader: (3)

Car is an '04 GTO M6

New set-up
TSP 408 -10cc pistons
CR aprox 9.25 : 1
AFR 225's 72cc
Futral 232 236 .585in .600exh 114
Magnacharger 122 92mm inlet
92PTM TB
60lb injectors
SW Longtubes

I have yet to get the new set-up tuned, it will barely even run now. Hopefully within the next week it will be tuned.

I really have no idea of numbers

My old set-up was
LS1 stock shortblock
Patriat LS6 Stage 2 heads
Thunder racing 224-227 114 cam
Short tubes
Magnacharger 112
463rwhp 462rwtq

99blancoSS

iTrader: (115)

The person who built it and block prep are what we see. It can be different everytime but if your using a qualified builder it should not be an issue. Parts selection is part of the process of building a solid engine and knowing which parts work best together is what a professisonal builder brings to the table.
We dont have issues with a 4" stroke, 4.100 or 4.250 for that matter but we have seen amateurs have all kinds of trouble and then they turn around and blame the parts..LOL

o2camaross

iTrader: (2)

thanks, your 408 setup is pretty much what im looking to do for my 04 RCSB. Im also gonna be doing an a4 to m6 swap, so i was just wondering on the numbers. If you can remember after you get the computer tuned and a dyno, could you pm me some results thank. How much did the 122 runyou? Sry for the threadjack

TXCAMSS

iTrader: (60)

I can vouch for the durability of a very well built 408. We currently have 629 passes on our HKE iron block 408 and no telling how many street miles. We literally beat on this engine and it has been as dependable as the day is long. I don't know of any fellow racers that have abused an engine as much as we have and got even half as many passes out of thier engines.

We do change the oil very frequently, but it was built right. We didn't have the funds to go with high end components at the time, but Erik at HKE put us a package together that worked!

I'll be freshening it up soon and saving it as our back up engine.

DAVESS02

iTrader: (30)

Maybe a post with a stroker checklist would be a good idea.
1. Crank to block clearances-listing places
2. rod to block clearances
3. pistons to avoid and proper clearancing
4 Cylinder preparation

Sorry if I missed an existing one.

southern69chevy

I agree with this guy. We could see if the mod's could make it a sticky too.

MAC4264

I agree this should be some sort of sticky.


I'm not LOL this. I know people who have been building for 30+ years and built all different types of engines that could very easliy over look this as this has not been an issue (cylinder length) as great as it is on this application. It is something alot of people take for granted. 1st time makes me an amateur 2nd time around I maybe an amateur in your eyes but those Wiseco's I bought are not going in any 4" stroke motor I'm building unless it has a long enough cylinder and the LSX (orange one) does not.


If the moderators want a sticky of this my suggestion is to post all LS type blocks cylinder lengths and aftermarket sleeve lengths.

racer7088

I will agree with everyone and also Jon@Texas Speed but I will one up him on power adder stuff with "It's all in the tune!" It doesn't matter how well anything is built or how well the parts are chosen when the engine is run lean or with too much timing or too much compression etc.

We have one LS1 4.000 crank engine that was done 8 years ago when there were mostly ONLY custom pistons for that and that has about 100K on it with JE pistons and JE/Dana plasma moly rings and it is still doing great in Austin. I actually did it at the school and did assembly and the clearancing at my house.

I did a 370 inch 302 Ford deal that couldn't work accoring to the experts and it went 155K in a extremely abused autocross car! It had Ross pistons but again done right even with the 3.600 stroke.

OTOH I have seen quite a few weird deals that were not fairing so well after even as little as 3500 miles and I have two at my shop right now! one is the piston's and cylinder length's fault and one is just a weird bore geometry problems and a very FUBAR hone job.

racer7088

MAC, I agree and saw this while reviewing many different skirt profiles while fiddling with circle track pistons and measuring them. Judson at SAM had a particular Wiseco in a circle track car that ran very well and I noticed the higher taper right off the bottom of the oil rail and then it had very little taper after that maybe .500 down from the rail maybe only a few tenths. I looked at a lot of other JE, Ross and CP and other pistons and then started matching that up with the bottoms of the bores and did more fiddling and came to some of my own conclusions.

While talking with many piston guys they understood what I was asking and figuring out about piston gyrations at or near BDC but virtually no engine builders even had a clue that I talked to and you are right that most don't even to this day. I found it very remarkable that this was true since I was worried and started measuring and calling people up the first time I wanted to do my own stroker pistons for my crazy big stroke Ford stuff but I guess some people just don't give a damn or just didn't really know half of what I thought they did!

To this day more than 3/4s of custom piston order sheets do not even ask cylinder length if that tells you anything.

southern69chevy

So what I'm getting is the biggest problem with the 408's or really the 4.00'' stroke is the pistons. So what would be the best pistons for a 408 with FI.

MAC4264

That is what have been trying to say novice or pro it is widely over looked especialy a short stroke guy as myself. It needs to be on the table for everyone to see at this point.

racer7088

Both the Wiseco and Diamonds are working great. They both are designed for the LS1 and it's short bores. The 4.030 bore Wisecos and Diamond all have very low taper skirts that work great. The best piston would depend on what compression and usage you are after.

racer7088

Yep I agree but it's always been there for people that wanted to know. I have had arguments about this with people and I just tell them "do you want me to fix your problems" then I do what needs to be done and the problems disappear just like magic! Believe me it's also NOT the skirt shape half the time either but rather other issues like rings and honing etc.

The crazy thing is that the short OEM cylinder of the LSX and that particular Wiseco you had which is a little more tapered than the smaller bore Wiseco stuff is still monumentally less tapered and more stable than some of the stuff I see quite a bit from the other piston companies and this other stuff will cause issues and does.

It's like that old saying that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. This info has been here forever but no one really wanted or cared to hear it. Also at this point most of the piston guys know about it and so it is 99 per cent better than many years ago but I still get some pretty extreme hoopties in every once in a while.

DAVESS02

iTrader: (30)

"The crazy thing is that the short OEM cylinder of the LSX and that particular Wiseco you had which is a little more tapered than the smaller bore Wiseco stuff is still monumentally less tapered and more stable than some of the stuff I see quite a bit from the other piston companies and this other stuff will cause issues and does."

Thats what many of us need to know, WHO makes these pistons so we can stay away from them. I see that Mahle makes a short skirt piston for 4" stroke LS motors. Anyone know if they work well?

MAC4264

Mahle is what we are putting in our 434 LSX right now. Go back and look at my thread "4.00 stroke potenial piston rock". In that thread about half way through I have piston size for that application mic all the way down the skirt.
Racer is right Wiseco does make pistons that work because he is using them with success. I believe to be the problem with my set and maybe others is, the only way to get larger bores uptill a year ago was to resleeve a block which my set would work. Now you can get the LSX and the piston that most sale for larger 4.08+ will not work unless they take cylinder length in consideration. Racer has pointed out that there are different skirt proflies at Wiseco.

DAVESS02

iTrader: (30)

I followed that thread a bit for the last 2 weeks. Lots of posts in that one. To the point, are the Mahle off the shelf pistons made correctly to work with the shorter sleeves of the LS2 blocks or is better to use a custon Wiseco piston?

99blancoSS

iTrader: (115)

Honestly you might be a qualified builder for a certain type of engine but we don't/haven't ever have the issues you had with the simplest of ls1 strokers.

I'm, not trying to insult you but your issues are not our issues and it's been explained to you but still you persist. The bottom line is if a person wants a 408 they should be using a professional builder who has experience with LSx engines. Putting one or two together doesnt make you an expert or a novice or a professional for that matter. The issues you had were created by yourself, we dont have those issues.

Another thing: If the 408 is such a bad un-reliable engine it would be posted all over the internet but your the only one flying a red flag.

People who havent done strokers before aren't familiar with what it takes to put one together and the challenges involved. You might be able to assemble a SBC in your sleep but this isn't a SBC. Its a different animal.

You need to let it go MAC and accept it was you and your build. Again not tyring to insult you but we dont have your problems and to suggest we ( and all other builder)are hiding something is ludicrous.

southern69chevy

Let's say I run 9:1 compression with a roots blower and it's going to be a street/strip motor, what would be best?

MAC4264

For you to make the above mentioned comments you must first be a builder and HKE is your builder right not you. Racer seems to be in a agreement with me on this issue. So any comment you make in regards as a builder are out my door. Yes me and the original thread starter's friend are waving the red flag that is two people. I'm the only one that has the ***** to go in the snakes den and prove a vaild point for the novice builder. (That is what this section of ls1tech is for right.) Yes your right, my problems are not your problems, but my real job is in the oil indusrty and 4.00 a gallon gas is not my problem either.

Southern69chevy call HKE and order the piston he recommends for you, if you build it yourself read my thread and check as much as you can. In the end no matter who screws up first it will be your fault because you are the end user and every hot rod part in america has a disclaimer on it that says so. It does not matter if you use it or show how it will not work for your application you should have return them in 30 days.


P.S. It only takes one split second to change a lifetime, and 1 little ol engine to try to help others not make the mistake I did, that is all I have been doing.