LPE 403

iTrader: (6)

Yep...lucky for us all

Look, call me old fashion. But if you pay for a service and feel you didnt get what you paid for, you approach that person/shop one on one to resolve the issue before the all too common chicken **** approach in shooting them in the back on the internet.

Good luck with call....

Black89Z51

iTrader: (2)

I'm sorry I somehow offended you with my post and by no means am I chicken ****. Just because I laid out what happened with pictures etc. for other people to see, doesn't make me chicken ****. This is merely a fact-only story on my experience with VA Speed. I didn't put in any opinions, just stated everything that happened.

I've read your build thread, and that was one of the reasons I went to VA Speed in the first place. I just don't have that kind of coin to throw at a car right now.

Honestly, the reason I went to Ed was because there are several posts etc., some pages and pages long, that go into quality issues with VA Speed work. And on top of quality issues, they weren't standing behind there work, trying to play it off on mechanical failure or the owner's fault when it was clearly a mistake on their part. I took it to VA Speed to make my car better, expecting a diamond, if you will. Instead I got a polished turd in the shape of a diamond. My being no diamond, or turd, expert I thought they had done me right.

Unfortunately for me, I had the diamon expert check it out, and he revealed all aspects of a turd.

Had I been messing around on the street or on a track or HPDE and blown my motor up due to knock because the tables were so out of whack, do you think VA Speed would have picked up the bill for another motor?

I'll leave that question open-ended. Bare minimum is that my tune was absolute trash and not even close to what it should have been. No tuner should ever let a car go with that kind of error. That kind of mistake is fatal.

My6speedZ

iTrader: (18)

we all know your going to stand up for them.

I've seen your build threads and its amazing, props. But I think this happens more often than people would care to know where a "cash cow" of a customer comes in. Shop knows they got money to burn and they turn out top notch stuff so it can get posted all over the internet.

Then you get average guys that get worked on in between big money builds and such. I'm not knocking VA Speed. I have seen some peoples threads and they have done some really impressive stuff.

However, just because you turn out 100 awesome builds doesn't mean you get a free pass to just totally dick up 1 out of 100. If its the tuners fault, VA Speed still should stand behind that.

The owner said when he showed up for his appointment that they were tuning something else that was having issues. I think its highly possible that it could have just been thrown on there and not given the proper amount of time so that they would not have to push back another person as well.

Either way nothing going to get resolved with out getting in touch with them. My guess from the other threads I've seen, it will just get blamed on the owner (and VA Speed is not the only shop I've seen do this )

What I personally have a problem with is YOU coming in here calling him a chicken **** for starting a thread about what happened to him. Wouldn't you want to know if a shop is heading down hill or something of that nature? Whats chickenshit about him letting us know about the inferior work he feels he received and leaving it in public form so that VA Speed (if they choose) can come on here and voice their own opinions as well.

LPE 403

iTrader: (6)

First off, thank-you for the props . Second, I'm not here to offend anyone.

Do I have a vested and biased interest that favor them, yes. Sticking up for? No. Re-read my post. I dont care what or who the vendor is....this doesnt help anyone except for a few band-wagon haters looking for a reason to climp on and bump post count.

My point (and only point) is that OP should have addressed the issue DIRECTLY with them FIRST not after a thread like this. Information is only one-sided. Shawn doesnt have the time nor should he have to get into pissin' contest over the internet on what did or didnt happen. If they are truly responsible, I'm sure it'll be handled and issue is closed. If not and OP is not satisfied...go nuts...post up til your fingers bleed. At least there is the opportunity to see both sides of the issue.

Not sure why you're taking it personally....cant help that I guess. It wasnt meant to offend. For conversation purposes....how can you confirm any of it is true? How can you make an assumption of the demise of an organization from one thread from someone that's been on this site for 2 months? I prefer to do my homework before reading into one-sided bullshit (is that better?) on the internet. Put the kool-aid down and believe me when I say, there is a whole hell of a lot going on here than you will ever know....

My6speedZ

iTrader: (18)

Ok,

First.

I KNOW that threads like these always start out one sided likes these. Remeber the CAM thread along time ago about the wrecked corvette? Yes the employee took the car and totaled it. But, that thing made it to like page 50 before the truth came out and Creech told us what was offered to the lady to fix it. Up to that point we thought she was basically told to "**** off" and she had to go through her insurance to get anything done.

Second.

I guess I see the need for threads like this from a point of view that, that no matter what happened in this particular instant, that people do get bad tunes, people do have parts they paid for left off their cars, ect, ect. Threads like these remind us to be aware of the fact that the aftermarket speed and tuner world are full of people that are looking to make a quick buck off this passion that we share.

Do I feel VA Speed is in the business of ripping people off? No I really don't. Their track record points to countless accomplishments and numerous projects on this site alone that will probably leave most people drooling (yours in particular for me ) and they also have a top notch machining facility.

Like I said, maybe this was just something that slipped through their fingers, okay, lesson learned and now they will be more mindful of what they let leave their shop considered finished. And they know that people will be checking after them and to make sure their work is as top notch as it always has been. Thanks to public forums like these it pushes and drives not just constant competition but good business practices as well.

After all, VA Speed has a reputation, and this industry is a buyers market. How many premium engine builders are their? Off the top of my head there are about 5 or 6 IMO. You can pick and choose, and companies like these have to build a strong image from the jobs they pump out as well as strong performance from the dyno number/E.T.'s their shop cars turn out because marketing alone will not cut it. How many shops, even big shops, have we seen disappear locally as well as on this site due to lack of customers due to a harsh economy if nothing else? Something had to have made these people decide on another shop right?

Three.

Perhaps I should have not attacked you personally, I apolgize for that. I also, did recognize that this was a newer memember and approached this thread with a grain of salt. I also was impressed by the pictures he provided and it seemed he had some evidence backing his claim. We have yet to hear from VA Speed or even Ed. If after the OP talks with VA Speed and they get something worked out, he can always delete this thread. Also I didn't specifically mean that VA Speeds was going down hill. I meant that repeated threads showing bad work can sometimes indicate that perhaps a shops lead tech has left and they relied on him to much, or they are understaffed as a whole, or even that maybe they just have burned out and have had some mistakes happen because their heart is not in it anymore.

Threads like these help us consumers when a shop IS TRULY not delivering for what has been paid for. Again, I did not mean VA Speed specifically when I wrote that. Hope that helps anyone reading this .

I also could not agree with you more about most of these threads being some punk crying about something and then the shop comes in and post their side and it ends up being someone trying to get something for nothing. I work at a body shop, I know all about people trying to screw over shops. Its often unfair and you see shops doing more than they ever should just to help maintain their good image because someone bashed them all over the internet unfairly. If this is the case, shame on you OP. I also agreed with you that nothing is going to get solved without him contacting VA Speed about the problem. We will just have to wait and see.

Scott

butler

Put a msd6ls box on it and tune it yourself with a carb. It isn't that hard.

Black89Z51

iTrader: (2)

Sure, why the hell not. I'll put in manual window cranks, change the ignition to points, go to manual steering, develop an LS2 underhead valve block, and anything else archaic that I can think of.

I didn't start this post for it to be a VA Speed vs. Ed thing nor did I do it to bash a shop. I know VA Speed has put out several cars that have been top notch. It's only an account of my PERSONAL experience with two entirely different tuners.

I am going to call VA Speed on Monday and talk to Shawn and ask for a refund. Where it goes it entirely up to them though.

I understand post count and membership length here is held to be the epitome of status-ship. Sorry I didn't join earlier and haven't been a post *****. I've been browsing these forums for around a year and a half or so just for information basically.

And lastly. Can't we all just hug and talk cars? After all, there isn't one of us here that doesn't have oil in our veins and drink gasoline for fun.

butler

Look do not take offense. I went the same route you are going through. Each time I added something I had to get it tuned. I got completely tired of it. The car started to come around when I went with the msd6ls box. I understand how you feel that's all.

Black89Z51

iTrader: (2)

I understand where you're going but I'm not going to rip the fuel injection off the car because I don't want to retune it. I don't mind at all having it tuned. It's part of the game. You add something or change something, you have to adapt to it.

The car runs great. Ed did an awesome job on the retune. I'm sure Ed will do an awesome job when I have him retune it when I put a cam in it.3

Even if you put a carb on it, it's still got to be retuned if you make changes to the motor.

LPE 403

iTrader: (6)

I think we both agree that a little due process would go a long way. Good talk Scott.....

The situation is unfortunate on a handful of levels but as I mentioned before, good luck.

By all means...fire away. Any further plans for the V?

Sarg

iTrader: (6)

We have seen people try to blackmail us, threatening to bash us publicly, because a part that they bought themselves and insisted that we use let go and they wanted their money back or another part installed for free. Also had people complain about a tune only to find out they added a couple new parts and the tune got thrown off. Ya just never know the whole story. Not saying that is the instance with this particular scenario, but the question I have to the OP is if you took it back to VA Speed to allow them to fix it?

Black89Z51

iTrader: (2)

No, I didn't take it to them to fix it. I had it set up with Ed to look at it and retune it if necessary. Besides, that's like having a contractor work on your house, do an absolute horrible job, and then let him back in your house to work more. Nobody in their right mind would do that.

I hope all this was just an honest mistake, and I hope they do right. I'll find out more tomorrow when I talk to Shawn.

Sarg

iTrader: (6)

I hear ya, but if you did not take it back to allow them to correct the problem...could have been whatever tuner they had at the time sucked and they fired that guy and have someone now that is able to correct the problem...just playing devil's advocate here.

To use the contractor example, they had some workers that sucked on a couple jobs, they fired them and then got a crew in that did amazing work that could fix it up perfect for you. You never know till you ask!

BrntWS6

iTrader: (7)

^^ I'd have to agree with that. I would have given them an opportunity to fix the problem or at the very least see what they had to say over the phone. If they didn't at least sound interested in fixing the problem over the phone I wouldn't bother bringing it back. But you might have a hard time getting your money back by not giving them a crack as fixing it.

I had the same problem with another tuner who also is a sponsor here....they didn't spend much time with my car and I had a **** tune. Called them the next day, talked to the owner and explained the situation. They kept my car for two days until it was running as it should.

Sarg

iTrader: (6)

We had something similar with a 2003 Cobra we tuned. Girl called and said it was running odd a week after tuning. Turned out she had developed an intake leak. We fixed it and tweaked the tune and sent her on her way. Had she just gone to another tuner and asked for her money back, we would have told her that she should have brought it to us to look at it rather than just giving her money back. I know this case was different, but at the same time, talking to them first probably would have been the best solution.

butler

Not true with a carb unless it's a major change. But I am not trying to argue that at all. If it's an fbody you have to cut the cowl and remove the windshield wipers. I have a 99 ss and won't get rid of the efi. Just not going to modify the engine much. Efi is extremely complicated and only a few have the good skills to alter it.

Black89Z51

iTrader: (2)

I plan on doing a cam in the near future motor-wise. I'd also like to get a Katech shifter and some Hotchkiss sway bars and some stickier tires. Eventually I'd like to ditch the DMF and go with an aluminum LS7 FW and clutch.

To all those who think I should have brought it back to VA Speed first:
I did to have the CEL turned off because they didn't disable the cat monitoring O2 sensors, which by the way I was assured that this was done, and the very first thing that they do on a tune with a car with headers. This is all in the original post, along with the slow responding O2 sensors. That's not a big deal.

However, this is:



Supposedly they tuned this, and it broke first time at the track. Again, supposedly, the full story about this will come out soon.

That's why I don't want them to touch my car. There are several threads just like that one with broken engines.

If they half-assed my tune in the first place, there is no way in hell I would feel comfortable with them doing it again. What's to say they don't screw it up more? I'm not going to trot Ed over there to watch them. Talk about awkward, if not worse.

I really got a bad feeling right off when they said I needed to change my O2 sensors because they are reacting slow. (Again, this is all in the original post.) Turns out that they just don't get as hot with headers and therefore don't react as fast. How would an experienced tuner not know this? I'm not the first car to ever come in that shop with a set of Kooks. All that needed to be done was change the parameters to allow more time for a change in reading.

RENE'S RAGE

iTrader: (96)

Like I said before, you should have call Shawn, you're had 4 months or stop by there in person.

BrntWS6

iTrader: (7)

^^ Ya got to go with your gut sometimes, and if you don't feel comfortable with them touching your car then I'd say you did the right thing. But I wouldn't expect any money out of them.

Black89Z51

iTrader: (2)

No, I've had 2 weeks. That's when I found out about the bad tune.



Thank you. I won't say I expect a full refund, but I would hope for at least 2/3 of it.

Not to mention that this car is put on a track. It will be seeing sustained high rpm use several times a year. I don't want to kill the car because of a bad tune. Also, I don't feel like I should have them fix it, then have to have someone else check it because I don't trust them. That's just a big pain in the ***. I shouldn't have to have someone babysit the guy doing a tune.