Thunder Racing Failed me badly
07-30-2004, 03:04 PM
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Thunder Racing Failed me badly Well I was very excited last month when I finally decided to place an order to get a TREX cam package with all the goodies, oil pump, under drive pully, timing chain etc. Well Thunder racing has a great rep on here so I figured it was a safe bet.
I placed the order on June 25th and was told the package was ready to go except the Crane springs which they said should be here in a few days. They said call back in a few days and get the tracking number. Things happen no problem.
Well calling back in a few days I heard the EXACT same thing from Pual directly this time. He assured me that they were going to have a tracking number the next day so call back then. Things happen no problem.
Well call back the next day and SHOCKER no tracking number but Paul talked to some big wig at crane and he assured them it would be the next day or two. Things happen no problem.
Well I gave it a week and called them and low and behold the springs had shipped. I was told it will be a day or two to get them then we will ship your stuff out. All my stuff was ready to go but they were getting low on retainers but my order was safe cause it was older than the others.
This is a month later and they still dont have springs. Things happen no problem.
Today finally rolls around and I still hadnt seen the package that I was told was going to ship late last week early this week. So I call Thunder and they tell me the springs are here
but we cant ship your order because the RETAINERS are back ordered!!! 
WTF is that? I thought my **** was going out first since it was one of the oldest orders. What did they try and do to make it right? NOTHING. Absolutely NOTHING. Said sorry. TOTAL BULLSHIT.
I understand the springs are out of their control that isnt the issue here the retainers and what is going to endup being 2 months waiting on a non custom cam package, all off the shelf parts.
There was no offer to substitute an equal or better retainer, no offer to get the retainers from another sponsor, nothing just sorry it is a shipping mistake the retainers should be here in a few days (heard that one before from crane).
Long story short I am thinking of going with the TSP Magic stick V3 but I really love the sound and the power results of the TREX but I dont want to not get the package until October.
I placed the order on June 25th and was told the package was ready to go except the Crane springs which they said should be here in a few days. They said call back in a few days and get the tracking number. Things happen no problem.
Well calling back in a few days I heard the EXACT same thing from Pual directly this time. He assured me that they were going to have a tracking number the next day so call back then. Things happen no problem.
Well call back the next day and SHOCKER no tracking number but Paul talked to some big wig at crane and he assured them it would be the next day or two. Things happen no problem.
Well I gave it a week and called them and low and behold the springs had shipped. I was told it will be a day or two to get them then we will ship your stuff out. All my stuff was ready to go but they were getting low on retainers but my order was safe cause it was older than the others.
This is a month later and they still dont have springs. Things happen no problem.
Today finally rolls around and I still hadnt seen the package that I was told was going to ship late last week early this week. So I call Thunder and they tell me the springs are here
but we cant ship your order because the RETAINERS are back ordered!!! WTF is that? I thought my **** was going out first since it was one of the oldest orders. What did they try and do to make it right? NOTHING. Absolutely NOTHING. Said sorry. TOTAL BULLSHIT.I understand the springs are out of their control that isnt the issue here the retainers and what is going to endup being 2 months waiting on a non custom cam package, all off the shelf parts.
There was no offer to substitute an equal or better retainer, no offer to get the retainers from another sponsor, nothing just sorry it is a shipping mistake the retainers should be here in a few days (heard that one before from crane).
Long story short I am thinking of going with the TSP Magic stick V3 but I really love the sound and the power results of the TREX but I dont want to not get the package until October.
07-30-2004, 04:04 PM
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Michael, I just got back in town and found out what happened. Unfortunately, we have been dealing with Crane's huge backorder issues for months and months and it seems that we are not making any headway. At the time you ordered, we did show that we had the retainers in stock, which turned out to be an inventory mistake. I wish that I could have better news for you on that end, but I don't. We did offer to upgrade you to the Comp 921 package for an additional charge, because at this time, it is the only option that we have available and in-stock. I sincerely apologize for the mistake, and if I can be of any assistance, please let me know and I will be happy to do whatever I can.
Angie
Angie
07-30-2004, 04:07 PM
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My name is Mark Campbell and I am VP or R@D at Crane Cams. If you want to be mad at someone, go ahead and be mad at me or Crane Cams and me, but don't blame Thunder Racing for something out of their control.
Let me set the record straight. Eight months ago, we (Crane) decided we wanted to improve our 144832 valve spring to minimize load loss at extreme RPM. The spring has what we consider to be the best harmonic characteristics for its intended use (this is a result of physical design characteristics, not material), but we could see that some LS1 guys were operating at RPM levels above 6500RPM frequently and that was drastically accelerating load loss. We merged an improvement of the 144832(changed the material to a much improved alloy) with the design of some new springs that used the same wire diameters. This allowed us to buy a better material at the same price as the wire we were currently using due to increased volume from the use in other springs. We planned to merge the material into regular production and figured we had a four month "overlap" (four month supply of existing inventory when the new improved springs arrived). Fortunately for Crane (unfortunately for people who couldn't get product), the sales of our 144832 springs went "through the roof" and what we thought would be a 4 month overlap turned into 2 1/2 months when we were out of springs. When the new versions of the 144832 (identified by a blue stripe and a yellow stipe) came in, we had to Spintron test them for quality. They worked beautifully and had only 1/3 the load loss of the original 144832's. In fact, this material is so lightly stressed that these springs will take .700" lift when installed at 112# @ 1.800" (and still have .060" additional travel). In fact, they can be shimmed .060" to give 133# on the seat and still take .640" lift safely. This is all with keeping the great harmonic characteristics and low noise signiture to eliminate false KR!
The springs were just shipped to Thunder a couple of days ago. The retainers should be shipped from Crane to Thunder early next week. I regret the inconvenience to you on this issue. We planned to have no period without product to ship, but the unexpected rocketing in popularity caught us by surprise. I hope you can appreciate our continuing effort to improve the product. We know our competitors aren't standing still so we are constantly testing and improving our product line.
Like I said at the start. If you want to blame anyone, blame me. If you have any additional questions or comments, you can email me: mcampbell@cranecams.com. We really appreciate your business. Rest assured you have the latest and greatest LS1 valve spring on the market, and yes we are all ready looking at how we can make it even better! Good luck!!
Let me set the record straight. Eight months ago, we (Crane) decided we wanted to improve our 144832 valve spring to minimize load loss at extreme RPM. The spring has what we consider to be the best harmonic characteristics for its intended use (this is a result of physical design characteristics, not material), but we could see that some LS1 guys were operating at RPM levels above 6500RPM frequently and that was drastically accelerating load loss. We merged an improvement of the 144832(changed the material to a much improved alloy) with the design of some new springs that used the same wire diameters. This allowed us to buy a better material at the same price as the wire we were currently using due to increased volume from the use in other springs. We planned to merge the material into regular production and figured we had a four month "overlap" (four month supply of existing inventory when the new improved springs arrived). Fortunately for Crane (unfortunately for people who couldn't get product), the sales of our 144832 springs went "through the roof" and what we thought would be a 4 month overlap turned into 2 1/2 months when we were out of springs. When the new versions of the 144832 (identified by a blue stripe and a yellow stipe) came in, we had to Spintron test them for quality. They worked beautifully and had only 1/3 the load loss of the original 144832's. In fact, this material is so lightly stressed that these springs will take .700" lift when installed at 112# @ 1.800" (and still have .060" additional travel). In fact, they can be shimmed .060" to give 133# on the seat and still take .640" lift safely. This is all with keeping the great harmonic characteristics and low noise signiture to eliminate false KR!
The springs were just shipped to Thunder a couple of days ago. The retainers should be shipped from Crane to Thunder early next week. I regret the inconvenience to you on this issue. We planned to have no period without product to ship, but the unexpected rocketing in popularity caught us by surprise. I hope you can appreciate our continuing effort to improve the product. We know our competitors aren't standing still so we are constantly testing and improving our product line.
Like I said at the start. If you want to blame anyone, blame me. If you have any additional questions or comments, you can email me: mcampbell@cranecams.com. We really appreciate your business. Rest assured you have the latest and greatest LS1 valve spring on the market, and yes we are all ready looking at how we can make it even better! Good luck!!
07-30-2004, 04:50 PM
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Angie like I said I understand that things happen with the springs. I never blamed you guys for that issue, it was frustrating but I never blamed you guys. The problem I have is that the retainers were in stock up until a few days ago. When I placed my order on June 25th there were retainers in stock. I am sure you have shipped out other cam packages since June 25th with retainers included in the orders that were ordered after me. So why now over a month later when the springs I have been waiting for for a month finally come in you have sold basically my retainers to someone else. You did offer to upgrade me to the 921 springs for the full $175 that you would have charged anyone that wanted them so I dont really see how that is any kind of "offer".
Like I said I still really want the TREX and the package that I put together with you guys but I dont want to get jerked around at the same time. I know it isnt a fortune compared to some purchases you guys get but the $1000+ purchase is still significant and I felt like I was getting blown off. You guys have always had a good rep for customer service and I felt like I was getting the raw end of the stick. Again I want the package for sure but I dont want to be still waiting for it in 3-4 more weeks.
Matt I have a lot of respect for you for stepping up and taking the fault on the spring issue. Like I said that was very frustrating not the fact that they were back ordered but the continual they will ship tomorrow story. If it is gonna be a month tell me its gonna be a month I can live with that. If Thunder is getting the run around then so are their customers. It is great you guys are making the products better just be honest and realistic with what you tell your customers with regards to time frames on deliveries. Now you said the springs were back ordered because of a change to a new better spring so then why am I still sitting here camless because there is a backorder on retainers??
Angie one last thing. If you can get me the cam and package next week or early the following week (which if what Mark said is true shouldnt be a problem) then do not cancel my order. I took my time and looked a few "big" cams for a reason and the TREX seems to fit my desires exactly............I just need the damn thing to put it in the car!!!!!!!
Mike
Like I said I still really want the TREX and the package that I put together with you guys but I dont want to get jerked around at the same time. I know it isnt a fortune compared to some purchases you guys get but the $1000+ purchase is still significant and I felt like I was getting blown off. You guys have always had a good rep for customer service and I felt like I was getting the raw end of the stick. Again I want the package for sure but I dont want to be still waiting for it in 3-4 more weeks.
Matt I have a lot of respect for you for stepping up and taking the fault on the spring issue. Like I said that was very frustrating not the fact that they were back ordered but the continual they will ship tomorrow story. If it is gonna be a month tell me its gonna be a month I can live with that. If Thunder is getting the run around then so are their customers. It is great you guys are making the products better just be honest and realistic with what you tell your customers with regards to time frames on deliveries. Now you said the springs were back ordered because of a change to a new better spring so then why am I still sitting here camless because there is a backorder on retainers??
Angie one last thing. If you can get me the cam and package next week or early the following week (which if what Mark said is true shouldnt be a problem) then do not cancel my order. I took my time and looked a few "big" cams for a reason and the TREX seems to fit my desires exactly............I just need the damn thing to put it in the car!!!!!!!
Mike
07-30-2004, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by 93LS1RX7
Angie one last thing. If you can get me the cam and package next week or early the following week (which if what Mark said is true shouldnt be a problem) then do not cancel my order. I took my time and looked a few "big" cams for a reason and the TREX seems to fit my desires exactly............I just need the damn thing to put it in the car!!!!!!!
Mike
Mike
Mike that wont be a problem as long as what Crane has told us here publicly holds true and the retainers come in when they are supposed too. We are at thier mercy on this issue. If you want to go with the Comp 921s then I can do that for $150 and ship your package out 2 Day Air, which mean you would have it in your hands on Wednesday.
I agree with you 100% on the shipping issues. If our suppliers would just be honest with us instead of the industry standard "2 Weeks" answer then it wouldn't be as big of deal for everyone involved. But when they tell us 2 weeks and we ask are you sure and they say yes, then we in turn tell you our customer the same thing and it doesn't hold true it looks back on us and not the supplier.
Mike just give me or Angie a call and we'll do whatever we can to get you what you really want. I'll be here for a little while longer or if I'm not here I'll leave my cell phone on my desk and they will give you that.
07-30-2004, 05:18 PM
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Pual
Thanks for the offer for the 921's but your own tech guys said the Cranes are a better spring anyway. Arent the retainers the same? I guess not or you would have shipped the package already. I will wait for the retainers to come in.
I am not looking for anything extra or special I just want the package I ordered. I hope this doesnt come across as I am trying to get something for nothing it wasnt meant to be that way at all. Like I said if I can get the package I ordered then we are good to go and I am happily loping away.
Thanks for the offer for the 921's but your own tech guys said the Cranes are a better spring anyway. Arent the retainers the same? I guess not or you would have shipped the package already. I will wait for the retainers to come in.
I am not looking for anything extra or special I just want the package I ordered. I hope this doesnt come across as I am trying to get something for nothing it wasnt meant to be that way at all. Like I said if I can get the package I ordered then we are good to go and I am happily loping away.
07-30-2004, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by 93LS1RX7
Pual
Thanks for the offer for the 921's but your own tech guys said the Cranes are a better spring anyway. Arent the retainers the same? I guess not or you would have shipped the package already. I will wait for the retainers to come in.
I am not looking for anything extra or special I just want the package I ordered. I hope this doesnt come across as I am trying to get something for nothing it wasnt meant to be that way at all. Like I said if I can get the package I ordered then we are good to go and I am happily loping away.
Thanks for the offer for the 921's but your own tech guys said the Cranes are a better spring anyway. Arent the retainers the same? I guess not or you would have shipped the package already. I will wait for the retainers to come in.
I am not looking for anything extra or special I just want the package I ordered. I hope this doesnt come across as I am trying to get something for nothing it wasnt meant to be that way at all. Like I said if I can get the package I ordered then we are good to go and I am happily loping away.
I totally understand where you are coming from. Both springs are pretty much equal. We've got the 921s on Angie car turning 8200rpms with no problems.
I'll get your order redone the same way it was and I'll upgrade your shipping to 2-Day Air and no extra charge. If you have any other questions just let me know.
Paul
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07-30-2004, 07:44 PM
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Paul,
since I ordered my package in Late June, am I near the top of the backorder list? I have everything except the springs and retainers
I sent Angie an email a few days ago with no response
Order is under Brian Krzewinski
Thx
since I ordered my package in Late June, am I near the top of the backorder list? I have everything except the springs and retainers
I sent Angie an email a few days ago with no response
Order is under Brian Krzewinski
Thx
07-31-2004, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Fireball
Paul,
since I ordered my package in Late June, am I near the top of the backorder list? I have everything except the springs and retainers
I sent Angie an email a few days ago with no response
Order is under Brian Krzewinski
Thx
since I ordered my package in Late June, am I near the top of the backorder list? I have everything except the springs and retainers
I sent Angie an email a few days ago with no response
Order is under Brian Krzewinski
Thx
Yes you will be shipping out as soon as the retainers show up. Sorry for the wait.
Paul
07-31-2004, 01:12 PM
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Paul I appreciate it and I am really looking forward to getting the cam.
Fireball (Brian) must be a anti-Maryland conspiracy!! HAHA I am in Westminster. No love for us Mason Dixon Line boys. lol
Fireball (Brian) must be a anti-Maryland conspiracy!! HAHA I am in Westminster. No love for us Mason Dixon Line boys. lol
08-05-2004, 04:56 PM
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Sorry, I still think Thunder bites. I've placed 2 orders with Thunder and both were negative experiences. First, I order Yella Terra's that were supposed to fit with "no clearance problems" according to their site. They don't fit under '98 valve covers I found out when I went to install. At first, the Thunder rep wouldn't let me return them at all because I opened them. (How would I know they didn't fit otherwise?) Then, they compromised and said I could ship them back and pay a %15 restocking fee. Wow I get to pay shipping an %15 for their misadvertisement. I was so unhappy with them, I decided I would not send them back so they could just turn around and sell them at full price again. I took a bigger loss and sold them on ebay to a board member instead. The only reason I ordered from them again was because I needed a JPR lifter tool set and I didn't know anywhere else to get it. They were on backorder, which is no big deal, but their rep didn't return my calls inquiring when I would get my order. The TRex cam IS really awesome but I'll never deal with thunder when there are so many good options available.
Do you think that the rep would have been so apologetic and caring if you didn't post on this board in front of 100's of potential customers? No freakin way. Thunder is a major vendor and they know it so one unhappy customer doesn't mean jack to them.
If anybody's got a story of awesome customer service from Thunder, I'd love to hear it. I'd love to believe that I've just been unlucky with them but I don't think so.
Do you think that the rep would have been so apologetic and caring if you didn't post on this board in front of 100's of potential customers? No freakin way. Thunder is a major vendor and they know it so one unhappy customer doesn't mean jack to them.
If anybody's got a story of awesome customer service from Thunder, I'd love to hear it. I'd love to believe that I've just been unlucky with them but I don't think so.
08-05-2004, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by kenkaru
Sorry, I still think Thunder bites. I've placed 2 orders with Thunder and both were negative experiences. First, I order Yella Terra's that were supposed to fit with "no clearance problems" according to their site. They don't fit under '98 valve covers I found out when I went to install. At first, the Thunder rep wouldn't let me return them at all because I opened them. (How would I know they didn't fit otherwise?) Then, they compromised and said I could ship them back and pay a %15 restocking fee. Wow I get to pay shipping an %15 for their misadvertisement. I was so unhappy with them, I decided I would not send them back so they could just turn around and sell them at full price again. I took a bigger loss and sold them on ebay to a board member instead. The only reason I ordered from them again was because I needed a JPR lifter tool set and I didn't know anywhere else to get it. They were on backorder, which is no big deal, but their rep didn't return my calls inquiring when I would get my order. The TRex cam IS really awesome but I'll never deal with thunder when there are so many good options available.
Do you think that the rep would have been so apologetic and caring if you didn't post on this board in front of 100's of potential customers? No freakin way. Thunder is a major vendor and they know it so one unhappy customer doesn't mean jack to them.
If anybody's got a story of awesome customer service from Thunder, I'd love to hear it. I'd love to believe that I've just been unlucky with them but I don't think so.
Do you think that the rep would have been so apologetic and caring if you didn't post on this board in front of 100's of potential customers? No freakin way. Thunder is a major vendor and they know it so one unhappy customer doesn't mean jack to them.
If anybody's got a story of awesome customer service from Thunder, I'd love to hear it. I'd love to believe that I've just been unlucky with them but I don't think so.
08-05-2004, 06:41 PM
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It seems like there are a ton of good experiences and a few bad. All vendors are going to have a hiccup but when it becomes a pattern is when you need to worry.
BTW I still havent gotten my package or even an email confirm it has shipped. I did however get an email on Monday saying it wasnt gonna ship because of the retainers. HAHA made me laugh.
The thing I still dont understand is how can crane not have enough retainers? I mean how long does it take to make 10000 retainers in a industrial situation? I mean there isnt one dude sitting there cutting them out of raw steel by hand. You would think they would say hey we can set up the machines 1 or 2 times and make a **** load rather than making say 1000 then changing to a nother production process then coming back to make 1000 more. Doesnt seem like the material loss would be very big if you had a few hundred extras laying around versus the retooling cost one or two times.
BTW I still havent gotten my package or even an email confirm it has shipped. I did however get an email on Monday saying it wasnt gonna ship because of the retainers. HAHA made me laugh.
The thing I still dont understand is how can crane not have enough retainers? I mean how long does it take to make 10000 retainers in a industrial situation? I mean there isnt one dude sitting there cutting them out of raw steel by hand. You would think they would say hey we can set up the machines 1 or 2 times and make a **** load rather than making say 1000 then changing to a nother production process then coming back to make 1000 more. Doesnt seem like the material loss would be very big if you had a few hundred extras laying around versus the retooling cost one or two times.
08-06-2004, 02:24 AM
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I also ordered my trex cam package with the crane double springs over a month and a week ago, but I still have no cam. I have called thunder every week and I get the same thing "we are expecting them next week"(first it was the springs, now its the retainers). I have bought alot of stuff from thunder and I have always had a good experience with them but this is rediculous. I just wish I could get a REAL eta on when I will get my cam. It is to the point now where I am considering canceling my order.
08-06-2004, 10:15 AM
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To those who are waiting:
I spoke to Mark Campbell yesterday and he promised 100% that I would have every set of titanium retainers that I have on backorder Monday. They are supposed to leave Crane today Next Day Air to us. I'm going to try and get a tracking number from them this afternoon so I can be 100% sure as well and I will post back. Thanks for your patience.
Paul
I spoke to Mark Campbell yesterday and he promised 100% that I would have every set of titanium retainers that I have on backorder Monday. They are supposed to leave Crane today Next Day Air to us. I'm going to try and get a tracking number from them this afternoon so I can be 100% sure as well and I will post back. Thanks for your patience.
Paul