Zangel

iTrader: (11)

Was the package signed for? If there isn't a signature and he doesn't have the package, then he needs to file a complaint claim with UPS. Packages coming to my company get lost all the time... we file complaints on a regular basis and usually they are found.

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

Package was never lost.

Procharged1

Jim Hogan - I have not met you or want to, but it seems like you are a problem customer. I would say APE may owe you a "sorry it took so long". I'll tell you if I had a customer put a stop payment on anything you wouldn't get **** from me or any help whatsoever. Did you ever think that it may just be you and not everyone you deal with? Being a dick will get you nowhere even if you are right. I have had my car held for 2 weeks before for a part that was in stock. Did I slam them on this board or any others? No, because it is not worth ruining someones rep over it. Here are some posts that you are negative about on other threads.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic-transmission/5310-tried-get-ls1-sfi-flexplate-but-bad-experience-reactor-products.html Reactor Flexplate
http://www.txstock.com/BATAMotor/ Comp Cam
http://www.fbody.com/cgi-bin/anythin...i?msgid=595217 APE again

APE - I have dealt with you before, and a happy returning customer. A "sorry" to Jim may be in order but after this I would not give him one personally.

RealQuick

iTrader: (14)

Whoa guy, you had to wait 2 weeks for something!!! try waiting 4-6 months like jim. I'd be ticked as well. I dont know what happened, but for no reason should there be this many hold-ups. If someone was told something would ship, then ship the damn thing. If not, let the customer know, dont leave the customer waiting around.

PongoX11

iTrader: (15)

Well I have met Jim, and he’s a standup guy. Whom all things considered has been pretty fuggin relaxed when it comes to the amount of money he has dumped into a motor vs. what he has to show for it: NOTHING! This project started in late Feb, and he was supposed to give me a ride in his beast when I went to Jersey in July... well july comes around 5 MONTHS LATER and all he has to drive is his '00 Stocker TA. These cars and all the money that perpetuates around them is not a necessity! We pour thousands of dollars into our CARS as a HOBBIE and in my opinion should not get dicked around. Some of these vendors act like they are in some sort of a monopoly, being able to treat customers in any sort of way. Well its time for some of them to wake up and understand that no one is truly relying on their business to survive.

Oh and for his Comp Cams complaint, I’d be a little ticked if a LOBE fell off my cam and they offered no compensation. How the hell does a lobe fall off the cam—that’s a defective product

(by the way, go Thunder Racing!)

Procharged1

Being late is one thing, but to attack a persons abilities and integrity is another. I have never seen a bad post about APE, and I know after all the work I have had done at APE that they don't mess around when it comes to quality. So for you guys pouring the salt on the open sore, remember next time you make a mistake, your not perfect either. When you are in business and have to rely on other vendors not to screw you, it sucks, Take it from me, I sell asian ****, and when SARS struck, none of my vendors would supply me with the women I needed. so, I ended up losing contracts that I had over that, they didn't post bad things about me. I just got fired. It was a natural disaster. BTW I really don't do that, but get my point.

Jim Hogan

John, first, thanks much for showing some concern and calling APE to get the story from them. I've done the same many times for members of my own site and I'm glad to see you do the same. That said a few things I'd like to point out.
First, you are probably correct on the shipping dates that APE quotes vs my dates of dispute/cancel dispute. Since the intake was shipped from APE directly to CAM, I've never seen it and the only records I have are the dates things post to CC statements. Appearantly, a short delay from when I call to when things happen. In either case, are you can see and as I have stated, 7/7 the payment was made from my CC company (MBNA) to Chris' bank. How or why Chris never got the payment is a different issue and again, all I could have asked was for Chris to 1) have told before he said to ship it back that it wasn't paid for - and I would have had him research why he claimed that then or 2) Chris could have called me in the 2 days I was supposed to have it back to tell me what happen. Chris told me today he recieved it on the 18th, I heard nothing on the 25th and made a call to inquire when Jason told me the story, to my shock and disbelief. Again, after spending so much money and waiting so long for things and then having a minor problems with an expensive part - I would have hoped Chris would have called me to tell me then - at that point, I would have been upset still, but less upset. Again, the real reason I was upset and finally broke down to post the situation is that I felt that I was lied to and let down on a promiss to fix and return just as I'd be lied to and let down time and time before.

That said... procharger1 - you obviously don't know me and don't want to know me and I'll suppose the same applies for me to you. BUT I'm sure if you read carefully, I have rather waranted horror stories with Reactor and Comp Cams that I also was VERY patient and quiet about until I was lied to over and over again. Reacotr kept promissing me a flexplate - I never received it - waited months - then complained when I wanted my money and flexplate back. As for Comp Cams, one of their cam broke apart in my motor because of their defect! Nothing I did wrong. I never asked them to pay for damage to my motor, just to replace the cam and cover the cost of gaskets for a swap - not cover my time doing the swaps or anything. I was repeatedly told a cam would be shipped and I would get a check and recevied nothing until I told people about it. In other words, yes, I've posted horror stories before - you are correct - and if you read them - you'll see the same situation I'm in here - I was very calm, very patient, very quiet, until I was lied to over and over again and promisses were never kept.

That all said - I did spend a LONG time on the phone with Chris this morning and the two of us came to a few agreements AFTER I had to get my CC on the phone with him AGAIN to explain that I did pay for the intake, on 7/7 as I told him. He still insists that his bank didn't put the money in his account. He was going to contact his bank today and find out where the money was and made some promisses to me by Sat, which I am fine with.

And Pongo - I think you hit the nail on the head - this is supposed to be a FUN hobby and lately, when big money is spent to enjoy this hobby, it becomes less fun. I could have bad mouthed APE to you back in July when I saw you - but I said NOTHING about my problems then as I really wasn't concerned about the time delay and as I told Chris this morning - I would have never said a word had Chris worked harder to let me know there was an issue with payment BEFORE I sent the intake back OR called me immediately when he received it to let me know there was an issue. I basically felt tricked and lied to - which Chris insists was not the case - he claims to have simply forgot to check to see if the disputed payment came through.

One final thought - Chris questions why he should bother helping me after posting the full story. I told him I was aware of such a risk when I posted the story and knew the chances I took. I see procharged here wouldn't even appologize for the hassiles, I wouldn't do business with him - BUT - I'm seeing Chris attempt to make things right for me at this point and he comes through on his word, I probably won't feel so bad when my car runs and assuming no problems - the only bad thing I would have to say about APE is that their timelines are a bit off and if you want to know whats going on with your motor, you have to call them, aside from that, I suspect I'll have the same great product everyone else claims APE builds.

Cary@Perf-Induction

iTrader: (1)

Jim,

The sad thing is, APE has a very good reputation around town, and around the world, your one issue is an everyday occurrence in the racing industry, I myself have had projects last a lot longer than what I wanted to and I regret ever having to get in a pissing contest about that kind of stuff. Fortunately we were able to add 3 more machining centers to keep up with the demand. But the time it took to get those set up we worked 7days 24 hours to keep up with our demands and hired 10 more people. We still fell short on a few deliveries and fortunately had understanding customers. The problem is that customers want to hear what they want to hear, which can put an overloaded shop into telling them what they want to hear. I wish I could spend the time with everyone of my customers to tell them how things work around here because simple yes or no answer is hard for people with disposable income to absorb. I do understand your getting upset, but to take a guy that does not have a bad record and working hard to build a business and rip his nuts off in front of the world may be a little selfish considering that in a perfect world someone will still make a mistake, I only know one man who was perfect, he died on a cross. I don't know Chris very well, but the people that come through our shop have a lot of great things to say about him, and are very encouraged by his abilities. After reading this forum for the last year, I can see that all of us sponsors are walking on egg shells because a bad situation like this just can't be forgiven. I'll bet if you would of just let this go instead of embarrassing them, he probably would have done you right in the future to make good on a bad deal. I know I have done that in the past and I appreciate people that could just bite their tongue. I'm just speaking from the mind of a hard working devoted business owner that would be extremely pissed at myself and them my customer for doing something like this. Sorry to say but I feel that the extreme detail you went into was not nessisary. But I do think you have a reason to be upset. I have even shown a little sensitivity to people that have done me wrong that are on this board, A particular cylinder head company sent me heads to machine as samples so they could verify that we were the ones to port their heads in production. I was real excited and we worked our butts off to make this happen, soon to find out at the PRI Show our ports were duplicated and nope we didn't get all those heads to port. Well, things happen. I could open up cans of worms for all the companys and customers that screwed us. WE have lost hundreds of thousands. That sucks real bad. WE never took to the revenge board to save our kind immage. I just hope you've gotten all your problems solved. Just remember one thing. The guys that are good aren't always fast, the guys that are fast aren't always good.

Fast SS on TNT

iTrader: (1)

The difference between a bad shop and a good shop is not the mistakes that can happen from time to time. It's how the shop handles the mistake. If APE steps up and makes good on your problem, then I would say they are a great shop. The bad shop tells you to go **** yourself, and happily waits for you to just give up.

Sorry to hear about your problems. I totally understand where your coming from when our "hobby" stops being fun, and starts becoming a source of stress. My car has been either in a shop, or in the garage for two years now. The next time it makes it to the drag strip will be in the summer of 2005......three years of collecting dust!!!

Mike K.

I can say that APE has treated me better than any other sponsor has so far and I have been to a few. I also have been screwed in the past and believe me when I tell you Jim that things could be alot worse.

Something that I have learned since I started working on my camaro.

**** takes time, this is the car parts world,, no matter what we do **** is still gonna take time. Now matter what I do or order from anybody I always add at least a month to any timeframe I am given for anything serious to be done to my car. (This is with any vendor)

APE really will help you and stand behind the work that they do, you have to keep in mind that again you are dealing with car parts and not stocks or bonds, yes we all expect everything NOW !!! and we wan't a callback at this exact instant !!!! but in car parts this NEVER happens no matter what vendor you are dealing with.

Its not like going to Wal-Mart and you like me will be forced to accept this. From my own experience I will say that APE does not want to screw you over and that they honestly care about making there customers go fast, They will work with you, I would not worry.

Just take it easy and stay in touch with APE. Jason is always there to answer the phones and he can easily get Chris for you to resolve any issues, Just give them a chance and you will be happy.

Hershey Squirt

iTrader: (6)

Everyone knows that delays hurt, it could be worse(Raging).

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

I am not one to take sides, and I have tried to get all the facts before posting. I do think that Jim is owed an apology for the time it took to get his longblock. When I have ordered big stuff I have in my mind allowed for an extra month. Heck I had problems getting my shortblock and I told the place that I would be willing to pick up all the parts and take it somewhere else since it was almost two months overdue. And while we can always point the finger at a departed employee the responsibility ultimately rides with the owner. As a co-owner of a 8 person company I do occasionally screw up and also have to deal with the screwups of my employees.

But in the end it's been worked out and hopefully folks can move past this.

Jim Hogan

Today I was asked to contact APE's bank directly to settle the payment issue. I don't think the customer should have to track the flow of his own payments, but I did the best I could since I really did pay my bill and I really do expect APE to get paid and I really do expect to get my parts, as they were paid for.

That said, for the people who still think I did something wrong by telling people about my experience, the only comparison I can make is the below case:

You go to a restuarant. You wait a half hour and your cute little waitress never comes. You wait another 30 minutes and she shows up with her tight little *** in those black pants, nice, looks good so you don't complain. You order your drinks first and will order food when she comes back. Another 30 minutes later, she shows up with your drinks and takes your order. Again, you don't complain cause you are just hungry. In 30 more minutes she comes back but your order is wrong and she disappears before you notice. You wait and when she comes back you send it back. She then never comes back again except to bring the bill, and she expects you to pay for it! You try to bitch to the manager but he tells you to contact your bank or use the ATM machine so he can get his money rather than appologize forthe troubles and make you a happy customer. You even warn him at this point that you hold some leveage by owning a publishing company and having a lot of contacts through it. The manager doesn't care and dosen't attempt to make things better. What would you do/what would you tell your friends about this restaurant?

I'm not saying EVERYONE will have the same poor service I had - and just like you'd think someone spit in your food for sending it back, I worry someone spit in my food for complaining about my problems, disputing charges for unsent items, etc. I'll take my chances with it for the reason that I've paid for it and I'm hungry.

BTW - I spent about 3 hours on the phone on hold with the CC company and APE's bank today, I'm kind of tired now, I wonder if anyone cares though and just thinks I'm an ******* for TRYING to get them paid and get me my parts. sigh..

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

Never mind that, finish the story... So you asked her out or what?

RealQuick

iTrader: (14)

Wildman

Now I might agree that the title of this thread might be a little harsh, but I don't understand why some people are coming down hard on Jim.
Heck, even some people are saying delays and mistakes are acceptable. Since when?
Oh... don't get me wrong, mistakes happen, and as said before, it depends on what the business does to correct the action that makes the difference between a normal company and a great one.
There might even be those customers that no one can please, but Jim has not sounded like one of them.
My point is, there is nothing wrong with Jim posting his experience here, that is what this forum is for. The purpose is feedback, hopefully APE can learn from this.
And MAYBE, depending on how they handle Jim, they will actually GAIN more customers.
Look at Thunder Racing... Look at almost any negative post regarding them. They turn around and make it a positive one.
/rant off

Good luck to you Jim

cgworth

iTrader: (11)

Jim you have every right to complain, that is what this board is all about we need to know all the goods as well as the bads to make our minds up on who we want to spend our hard earned money with. Welcome to the USA!!! . I think your original post was well written and I dont recall you cursing them once. As far as procharged1's comments I wouldnt worry about someone with that little of a post count as he is probaly someone from AP or a friend of theirs. I cant understand how someone elses bad expieriance could upset him. Good Luck with you engine

Chris@AP-Engineering

iTrader: (-2)

This is the only post we plan to make regarding this issue, the last thing we want to do is turn this into a one word against another argument. But we need to at least clear the air on a few things.

Here's the problem with this situation that hasn't exactly been brought into focus.

We did not rip ANYONE off. We have quickly built a reputation of being a great engine shop, always delivering what was promised. We would risk everything that we have worked hard on if we tried to cut corners by being intentionally deceptive about anything.

We DID overpromise on the engine build. It is a relatively known fact in this industry that an engine build can often be late, in this case it was much later than expected and we apologized profusely. That was our fault and we are big enough to admit it from the start. No engine shop gets every engine out on time, every time.

However, as late as the engine was, the engine has NOTHING to do with this situation. The fact that the engine was late does not in any way reflect on the engine quality, integrity and craftsmanship itself. Jim had his engine before the intake issue had arisen. It has been insinuated that the engine was of poor quality or the integrity was compromised due to the issue with this intake. Everything that Jim purchased he had received and was assembled to the very best of our ability. We take great pride in ensuring this in every engine. We are not the kind of company who would charge someone for Callies rods and give them stock pieces hoping they would never find out. Again, that would not be right and we would lose much more than we would gain. We have seen more than enough companies go under by doing this, and we have no plans to fall victim to the same situation.

This situation is about the INTAKE that was NOT paid for, this is NOT about the ENGINE and certainly not the quality of the engine itself. Jason shipped the intake out he even told Jim when it was going out. I can understand not feeling comfortable about the things we said considering his engine was so late. This was due to some untruthful things said by an employee here who was later terminated from his employment here for reasons like that (among others).

Still, the fact remains that Jim cancelled his credit card charge AFTER we had shipped the intake and according to UPS tracking information, over ONE WEEK after it had arrived at his shop (CAM). We can't be held responsible for the lack of communication between Jim and CAM, we are only responsible for our own errors. Jim never bothered to simply call us to verify that it had been shipped and get a tracking number from us OR call his shop to see if it had arrived. The charge dispute left us with a $1,700 bill. We called Jim and asked him to reverse the dispute and he said he would. For one reason or another that was entirely out of our control, the funds never made it back to us. We did not know this when Jim sent the intake back to us for adjustments to the nitrous lines on the intake. When we received the intake, that reminded us to look into the reversal of the charge dispute, and it was THEN that we realized we were still $1,700 short on his intake. No business in the world with any sense would continue without getting things settled first. From the time we explained to Jim that the funds have not been placed back in our account to the time that our name had been smeared across the Internet was less than 12 hours. Dealing with banks in situations like this is rarely speedy, and we barely got the chance to make things right, which we are STILL trying to do.

The things said in this thread and the accusations and insinuations made were not entirely necessary. The feeling of this thread was not to resolve an issue but to punish our reputation for unintentionslly delaying Jim's motor and for expecting payment for an item. Jim has indeed received the motor and all internal components that was listed in his first post of this thread. That motor was assembled with the same care and accuracy that is put into each and every motor that leaves our shop. We do not compromise the quality of our work based upon the customer attitude, that would only be asking for trouble. Saying "nothing but problems with AP-Engineering" is not accurate. The only problem Jim should have with us is the fact that your motor was late and that he does not have an intake that we have not been paid for. Technically, these problems are relatively minor compared to how the situation was presented. Again, this issue is about the intake and the payment for it that was unnecessarily disputed and not the quality of the work or the honesty of our crafstsmanship. We do very good work and we stand by it. The intake was test fitted on a Firebird here in our shop. There should be no issues with it fitting on Jim's car. However, as with anything that leaves our shop, we are still fixing it and will do our best to make it work as intended.

As a business that makes every effort to be honest with our customers, we WANT to make this right. However, also as a business we cannot afford to eat a $1,700 bill just because a customer jumped the gun and cancelled a credit card charge because they were upset about another separate order being late. Again, how is that fair to us? We apologized time and time again for his engine being late and the situation surrounding that, and he got everything that he paid for. All we ask is that we get the funds for the intake as promised, which at this point, we have NOT been paid for. This is not too much to ask. We understand and can't disagree with Jim's frustrations but the expectations placed upon us are very unfair. Again, we want to make this right but we cannot do this and rightfully should not be expected to until the bill is settled.

Today we were informed that there is absolutely no record of Jim's bank contacting our bank, even though Jim's bank contacted us earlier this week and was provided with our bank information. Since that seemed to do no good, we tried to find the right person at our bank for Jim's bank to get in contact with. We were told by our bank the name of the person that Jim's bank needs to get in touch with (we never said HE was the one to call our bank to handle this, this needs to be handled between Jim's bank and our bank) but evidently we were misinformed on who that person was. We know that because that person at our bank called to let us know that she had received a very "disturbing" phone call from Jim and was working on getting the proper information for us. We are doing everything we can to get this issue resolved but for right now it is out of our hands until the banks manage to get in touch with each other. We are not portrayed in a very positive light over this, which would have never been a problem if the charge was not disputed the way that it was in the first place.

As soon as we have clear confirmation that we will actually be paid by Jim's credit card company, his intake will be sent out overnight so he can get things with his car rolling again.

Scalpel

iTrader: (4)

Well said.

Jim Hogan

Chris, you were personally contacted my my CC company on Weds at which time time they told you that you were paid, in full, on 7/7/2004. When I called you on Thursday, I conferenced you with the CC company who again, told you that you were paid, in full, on 7/7/2004. That I had to spend another day on the phones to confirm that you were paid, in full, on 7/7/2004 and you STILL deny the fact that you paid in full is just another an outright lie.

And claiming the late shipping and lies about when the motor would ship has EVERYTHING do with this situation. Had I not been LIED to REPEATEDLY by your employee, I might have believed Jason when he told me the intake would ship and canceled my dispute immediatly. I had absolutly no reason to believe Jason at that time as I had been LIED to over and over again by your employees before. Again, my dispute was cancelled IMMEDIATELY when CAM received the intake and that the dates the CC processes these disputes/credits/debits is not the same as the dates you show for shipping is a normal and expected thing - ie, when you cash a check and the date is clears is days apart, the same case applies here and the CC company will explain that to you AGAIN if needed.

To put it back in your own words:
As a customer that made every effort to be honest with a vendor, I WANT to make this right. However, also as a customer I cannot afford to eat a $1,700 bill for an intake just because a vendor claimed an item would ship and never gave me a reason to believe them because they were DISHONEST about another separate order being shipped. Again, how is that fair to me?

All I ask is that I get the product - the intake - as promised, which at this point, I have paid for. This is not too much to ask. I understand and can't disagree with Chris' frustrations but the expectations placed upon me are very unfair. Again, I want to make this right but I cannot do this and rightfully should not be expected to until the PAID for product is shipped to me.

That Chris is still holding onto an item that I have PAID for, NEARLY 2 MONTHS AGO is probably criminal and I expect him to ship my intake immidiatly.