FX Ceramic Coating
01-20-2008, 09:34 AM
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FX Ceramic Coating Okay, here's the deal.
FX is in my former home town, and 7 weeks prior to my move, I approached them about doing the coating on my twin turbo build (custom TT link in my sig if you are interested in the build thread). I let Chris know I'd be moving and when I needed the work done to make various deadlines (was going to have it painted down there by my buddy's shop, shipping to NY, etc.) I also asked Chris to do some welding for me on the intercooler as I don't have a tig and my mig is too little to do alum.
It was a huge job, I admit that. In fact, Chris told me several times that mine was the biggest (single) job they'd ever done. None-the-less, I expected a professional level of work. I didn't get it...
Background:
I was originally coated $7-13 per linear foot for the pipes, $300-400 for welding up the intercooler. Chris said they could do the pipes in a black gloss, (although he'd never tried that process before), flat black (which he'd done "a lot"), or "standard" silver. I decided to try the engine bay stuff in the gloss black, the rest of the non-visibles flat black, and the visible stuff in silver.
Chris put me off for weeks, saying he lived around the corner from me and would drop by to pick up the pipes I had ready and to start taking a look at the intercooler. 3 weeks later I just showed up unannounced at his shop with a load of pipes to get started with. I had a few more items to finish fabbing, but gave him the priority stuff so I could get the truck fired up. Some of the things I had to finish were waiting on Chris to do the intercooler welding, so I was stuck there.
Remember that I did not ask Chris to come by -- he offered to, because he lived around the corner and was interested in my build. Fine. When he finally did come by to start on the FMIC, he spent a few visits drawing on a sketch pad, and left saying he'd mock some stuff up in card board and come back. Over a week later he showed up with a measuring tape, took some measurements again and said he was doing the fab work the next day and that I was top priority.
By this time, I'd started putting on the pressure, since my drop dead date was 2 weeks away and to get the paint done, I'd need the truck in a week. I still had none of the parts I'd dropped off 2 weeks earlier because one of Chris' employees had knee surgery and no one besides Chris could do the coating.
Cutting to the chase, the 2 weeks evaporated quickly... Parts began to dribble back in the week prior to my move, but not in the priority order that I delivered the parts in... The movers were showing up on Monday, I was leaving town for good on Tuesday, and 7 weeks after I put in the job, I got the bulk of the parts back on Friday night with the rest delivered on Saturday.
While Chris was there he noticed that I scratched some of the parts installing them. He asked me what I did to them and said it should take a sand blaster to remove the coating. I showed him how you could scratch the coating with a box end wrench by lightly dragging the box across the coating. He said it just needed some heat cycles to cure and then it would harden up, but if it didn't, that he would recoat anything that needed recoating.
He told me the cost was going to be $1800 -- which was a lot more than the original quote I got. I questioned him on that, and he said it was a lot more pipe than we both thought and he liked the project so he'd already given me a 25% discount... Yep. The original price should have then been $2400... For coating and 4 hours of welding and fab work.
It was high, but I didn't complain because the job looked awesome except for one piece they scratched getting it out of the oven (but Chris had touched it up and said it would disappear as it went through some heat cycles). He said his printer was broken so he couldn't print the invoice but he'd email it to me.
Continued...
FX is in my former home town, and 7 weeks prior to my move, I approached them about doing the coating on my twin turbo build (custom TT link in my sig if you are interested in the build thread). I let Chris know I'd be moving and when I needed the work done to make various deadlines (was going to have it painted down there by my buddy's shop, shipping to NY, etc.) I also asked Chris to do some welding for me on the intercooler as I don't have a tig and my mig is too little to do alum.
It was a huge job, I admit that. In fact, Chris told me several times that mine was the biggest (single) job they'd ever done. None-the-less, I expected a professional level of work. I didn't get it...
Background:
I was originally coated $7-13 per linear foot for the pipes, $300-400 for welding up the intercooler. Chris said they could do the pipes in a black gloss, (although he'd never tried that process before), flat black (which he'd done "a lot"), or "standard" silver. I decided to try the engine bay stuff in the gloss black, the rest of the non-visibles flat black, and the visible stuff in silver.
Chris put me off for weeks, saying he lived around the corner from me and would drop by to pick up the pipes I had ready and to start taking a look at the intercooler. 3 weeks later I just showed up unannounced at his shop with a load of pipes to get started with. I had a few more items to finish fabbing, but gave him the priority stuff so I could get the truck fired up. Some of the things I had to finish were waiting on Chris to do the intercooler welding, so I was stuck there.
Remember that I did not ask Chris to come by -- he offered to, because he lived around the corner and was interested in my build. Fine. When he finally did come by to start on the FMIC, he spent a few visits drawing on a sketch pad, and left saying he'd mock some stuff up in card board and come back. Over a week later he showed up with a measuring tape, took some measurements again and said he was doing the fab work the next day and that I was top priority.
By this time, I'd started putting on the pressure, since my drop dead date was 2 weeks away and to get the paint done, I'd need the truck in a week. I still had none of the parts I'd dropped off 2 weeks earlier because one of Chris' employees had knee surgery and no one besides Chris could do the coating.
Cutting to the chase, the 2 weeks evaporated quickly... Parts began to dribble back in the week prior to my move, but not in the priority order that I delivered the parts in... The movers were showing up on Monday, I was leaving town for good on Tuesday, and 7 weeks after I put in the job, I got the bulk of the parts back on Friday night with the rest delivered on Saturday.
While Chris was there he noticed that I scratched some of the parts installing them. He asked me what I did to them and said it should take a sand blaster to remove the coating. I showed him how you could scratch the coating with a box end wrench by lightly dragging the box across the coating. He said it just needed some heat cycles to cure and then it would harden up, but if it didn't, that he would recoat anything that needed recoating.
He told me the cost was going to be $1800 -- which was a lot more than the original quote I got. I questioned him on that, and he said it was a lot more pipe than we both thought and he liked the project so he'd already given me a 25% discount... Yep. The original price should have then been $2400... For coating and 4 hours of welding and fab work.
It was high, but I didn't complain because the job looked awesome except for one piece they scratched getting it out of the oven (but Chris had touched it up and said it would disappear as it went through some heat cycles). He said his printer was broken so he couldn't print the invoice but he'd email it to me.
Continued...
01-20-2008, 09:53 AM
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Okay... So I'd paid $1800 for a job that cosmetically looked great, with the promise that any flaws would be taken care of (and here, I was assuming 3 max parts would be bad, the headers and the 2 charge pipes from the FMIC to the TB). I said if need be, I could remove those parts over the winter months and Chris could redo them. Chris promised to drop off some touch up coating before I moved so I could cover any scratches that occurred with installation on the gloss parts. He never did. He also never emailed the invoice.
I got up here to NY and started tuning. I called Chris a few times asking for the coating and the invoice, to which he finally replied that I should just email him because he didn't have a pen. I emailed him many, many times to every email address I could find for him. No dice on anything.
Then the coup d'grace... In the end of September, beginning of October, and after driving the truck for about 700mi (no weather, all highway miles), I noticed that the coating was delaminating, flaking off, and that parts were rusting (pics to follow below). I contact Chris by email again, but this time asked for a full refund due to 95% of the parts being bad. A long, protracted email conversation ensued, where Chris would blow it off for a week at a time. He offered to fix the headers and the cross over pipe because the "gloss was something he'd never done before". Note that the cross over pipe was not done in gloss. Chris also admitted that the coating didn't seem to be holding up to the heat as advertised, but would still not accept all the parts back, and would not pay for shipping in either direction. I continued to press for a full refund and point out that I still did not have an invoice. I frequently stated that the reasons I was no longer willing to let Chris try to fix the problem was his lackadaisical attitude about the work, the horrible quality on most of the job, and his complete lack of follow through on anything he ever promised to do (including sending the actual invoice).
He finally said his wife had sent the invoice a long time ago and insinuated that I was lying about not receiving it... but he didn't bother to attach the invoice to the the email, nor did he just mail it to me. He said the parts were going bad because of all the cutting welding and grinding I did on the truck (I did none... all cuts, welds, and cleanup where done outside the garage even) and also said it was because of the amateur build (yes the same build he was so impressed by as to give me a 25% discount).
I forgot to mention that the pipes are delaminating on the inside too -- sending all the debris through the TB... Chris doesn't think sending a fine powder through a running engine for the life of the parts is a big deal...
I had an attorney contact Chris with a demand for a refund. Chris got an attorney to reply that there was nothing wrong with my parts. We sent about 65-70 pictures (which will be linked below) to him since viewing them on the web didn't provide enough detail. In the meantime, I got fed-up and offered to settle for 1/2 -- $900 off an $1800 job that was garbage -- and we put a 1 week deadline on the offer. Chris countered 2 weeks later with an offer of $200 "since only the headers were faulty".
Pics are below for you to judge for yourself. I've had the parts examined by two experts (one with 15 years experience in the trade, and one being the guy WHO INVENTED ceramic coating in the 1970s). Both say the problem is a poor prep job.
Chris will probably reply with the same old lame arguments he's been making since October. Whatever. At this point, I know Chris is never going to make good and am pursuing other options. This thread exists so you guys will know what you might be getting in to if you use FX Ceramic Coating.
I got up here to NY and started tuning. I called Chris a few times asking for the coating and the invoice, to which he finally replied that I should just email him because he didn't have a pen. I emailed him many, many times to every email address I could find for him. No dice on anything.
Then the coup d'grace... In the end of September, beginning of October, and after driving the truck for about 700mi (no weather, all highway miles), I noticed that the coating was delaminating, flaking off, and that parts were rusting (pics to follow below). I contact Chris by email again, but this time asked for a full refund due to 95% of the parts being bad. A long, protracted email conversation ensued, where Chris would blow it off for a week at a time. He offered to fix the headers and the cross over pipe because the "gloss was something he'd never done before". Note that the cross over pipe was not done in gloss. Chris also admitted that the coating didn't seem to be holding up to the heat as advertised, but would still not accept all the parts back, and would not pay for shipping in either direction. I continued to press for a full refund and point out that I still did not have an invoice. I frequently stated that the reasons I was no longer willing to let Chris try to fix the problem was his lackadaisical attitude about the work, the horrible quality on most of the job, and his complete lack of follow through on anything he ever promised to do (including sending the actual invoice).
He finally said his wife had sent the invoice a long time ago and insinuated that I was lying about not receiving it... but he didn't bother to attach the invoice to the the email, nor did he just mail it to me. He said the parts were going bad because of all the cutting welding and grinding I did on the truck (I did none... all cuts, welds, and cleanup where done outside the garage even) and also said it was because of the amateur build (yes the same build he was so impressed by as to give me a 25% discount).
I forgot to mention that the pipes are delaminating on the inside too -- sending all the debris through the TB... Chris doesn't think sending a fine powder through a running engine for the life of the parts is a big deal...
I had an attorney contact Chris with a demand for a refund. Chris got an attorney to reply that there was nothing wrong with my parts. We sent about 65-70 pictures (which will be linked below) to him since viewing them on the web didn't provide enough detail. In the meantime, I got fed-up and offered to settle for 1/2 -- $900 off an $1800 job that was garbage -- and we put a 1 week deadline on the offer. Chris countered 2 weeks later with an offer of $200 "since only the headers were faulty".
Pics are below for you to judge for yourself. I've had the parts examined by two experts (one with 15 years experience in the trade, and one being the guy WHO INVENTED ceramic coating in the 1970s). Both say the problem is a poor prep job.
Chris will probably reply with the same old lame arguments he's been making since October. Whatever. At this point, I know Chris is never going to make good and am pursuing other options. This thread exists so you guys will know what you might be getting in to if you use FX Ceramic Coating.
01-20-2008, 09:56 AM
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Yes, these pics aren't super. Better ones are below, but the point here is, that anyone can see this coating is screwed up.
the tb carnage:
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoating/coatedtb1.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoating/coatedtb2.jpg
dry paper towel to tb blade: Note that isn't oil or soot -- that's coating powder.
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoating/tbwipe.jpg
the bubbling, flaking series:
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...tingbubble.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...0flakedoff.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...ingbubble2.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...ubble3melt.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...ingbubble4.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...ingbubble5.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...sappearing.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...ingbubble7.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...le8flaking.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...ingbubble9.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...lerustthru.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...sflakedoff.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...ingtexture.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...ngtexture1.jpg
from 2 weeks ago (for ref):
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...sover_sept.jpg
same part now:
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...errustthru.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...rrustthru2.jpg
Yes, that's rust...
the tb carnage:
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoating/coatedtb1.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoating/coatedtb2.jpg
dry paper towel to tb blade: Note that isn't oil or soot -- that's coating powder.
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoating/tbwipe.jpg
the bubbling, flaking series:
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...tingbubble.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...0flakedoff.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...ingbubble2.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...ubble3melt.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...ingbubble4.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...ingbubble5.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...sappearing.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...ingbubble7.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...le8flaking.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...ingbubble9.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...lerustthru.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...sflakedoff.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...ingtexture.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...ngtexture1.jpg
from 2 weeks ago (for ref):
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...sover_sept.jpg
same part now:
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...errustthru.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...rrustthru2.jpg
Yes, that's rust...
Last edited by TurboBerserker; 02-04-2008 at 06:57 PM.
01-20-2008, 10:00 AM
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End of September:
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoating/header_sept.jpg
Two weeks later:
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoating/header_now.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoating/header_now2.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoating/header_now3.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoating/header_now4.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...ow4flaking.jpg
How do you get stainless steel to rust? Have it coated!
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...w5rustthru.jpg
The coating on the headers was like powered sugar or fine sand. Touch it, and it came off in showers...
Right now, the headers are mostly bare -- despite not even running the truck...
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoating/header_sept.jpg
Two weeks later:
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoating/header_now.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoating/header_now2.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoating/header_now3.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoating/header_now4.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...ow4flaking.jpg
How do you get stainless steel to rust? Have it coated!
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...w5rustthru.jpg
The coating on the headers was like powered sugar or fine sand. Touch it, and it came off in showers...
Right now, the headers are mostly bare -- despite not even running the truck...
Last edited by TurboBerserker; 02-04-2008 at 06:57 PM.
01-20-2008, 10:12 AM
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Here are some high res shots:
yes, more rust...
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...2_rusty_hd.jpg
How about a little black coating on the tranny pan?
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...flaking_hd.jpg
More...
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...metling_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...ndpaper_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...metling_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...ge_rust_hd.jpg
Some close ups of the delamination:
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...coating_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat..._flakes_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...flakes1_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...flakes2_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...flakes3_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...flakes4_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...ubbles0_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...flakes0_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...flakes1_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...flakes2_hd.jpg
yes, more rust...
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...2_rusty_hd.jpg
How about a little black coating on the tranny pan?
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...flaking_hd.jpg
More...
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...metling_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...ndpaper_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...metling_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...ge_rust_hd.jpg
Some close ups of the delamination:
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...coating_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat..._flakes_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...flakes1_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...flakes2_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...flakes3_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...flakes4_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...ubbles0_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...flakes0_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...flakes1_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...flakes2_hd.jpg
Last edited by TurboBerserker; 02-04-2008 at 06:59 PM.
01-20-2008, 10:13 AM
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More rust:
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...flakes0_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...flakes1_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...flakes2_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...flakes3_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...flakes4_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...flakes0_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...t_melt0_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...e_rust0_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...e_rust1_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...e_rust2_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...ubbles0_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...ubbles1_hd.jpg
Close ups of the headers decoating themselves (notice the similarity to the X pipe shown above - headers were gloss, x-pipe was flat):
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...lector0_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...lector1_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...lector2_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...lector3_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...0_sandy_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...1_sandy_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...2_sandy_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...3_sandy_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...flakes0_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...flakes1_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...flakes2_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...flakes3_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...flakes4_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...flakes0_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...t_melt0_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...e_rust0_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...e_rust1_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...e_rust2_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...ubbles0_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...ubbles1_hd.jpg
Close ups of the headers decoating themselves (notice the similarity to the X pipe shown above - headers were gloss, x-pipe was flat):
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...lector0_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...lector1_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...lector2_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...lector3_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...0_sandy_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...1_sandy_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...2_sandy_hd.jpg
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...3_sandy_hd.jpg
Last edited by TurboBerserker; 02-04-2008 at 07:00 PM.
01-20-2008, 10:23 AM
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These linear scratches were made by the PLASTIC ZIP TIE... again, on flat black parts
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...g_rust0_hd.jpg
Chris has physical copies of all these pictures.
http://www.scifilogy.com/sss/badcoat...g_rust0_hd.jpg
Chris has physical copies of all these pictures.
Last edited by TurboBerserker; 02-04-2008 at 07:01 PM.
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01-20-2008, 10:27 AM
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Oh, btw, I finally got an invoice from Chris' lawyer. Suddenly, the $400 max welding job was $725... He charged for 8 hours of welding and fabrication, plus 6.5 hours of "Time & Travel" despite the fact that he lives around the corner... The flat black pieces got billed at between $20 and $65 per square foot. The gloss headers were billed at $260 instead of $225... Then the discount was applied to all pieces (line items) except the fabrication and had to end up being 44% instead of 25%.
It's a lot of work to make an invoice match what you charged somebody 4-5 months after the fact I guess. Sometimes you have to give an even bigger discount and really screw around with the linear foot prices to make it all work out (not to mention double bill for time)...
It's a lot of work to make an invoice match what you charged somebody 4-5 months after the fact I guess. Sometimes you have to give an even bigger discount and really screw around with the linear foot prices to make it all work out (not to mention double bill for time)...
01-20-2008, 11:10 AM
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what a rush!
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WOW, that sucks big-time Erik, this guy sounds like a real dirt bag!
No telling what your motor has been through........I'd be looking for more than just my $$ for a crap coating.
If anyone has the right temperament to deal with this kind of thing it's you, but **** like this really makes this hobby a horror
No telling what your motor has been through........I'd be looking for more than just my $$ for a crap coating.
If anyone has the right temperament to deal with this kind of thing it's you, but **** like this really makes this hobby a horror
01-31-2008, 11:16 AM
#13
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If you aren't going to post an update, with new information, please no more TTT's. This thread will remain in the forum for folks to search for, as always I don't remove feedback threads. But there is no reason to keep bumping it without an actual update with substance.
Also, if you resized the pictures the thread would be easier to read.
Also, if you resized the pictures the thread would be easier to read.
02-03-2008, 08:58 AM
#14
I AM A MOTHERF*CKER
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IMO the complete lack of a response from a sponsor on this forum to a long standing member of this forum and supermod of sister site IS a substantive update. Perhaps a little help from the LS1Tech mods and admins is in order if my bumping this thread is that much of an issue.
Have you ever heard the phrase "out of site, out of mind"? Well, that certainly applies here. This has been going on since OCTOBER. This thread will not be "out of site". If Chris can still keep it out of mind, well, then that sends a very clear message, doesn't it?
Have you ever heard the phrase "out of site, out of mind"? Well, that certainly applies here. This has been going on since OCTOBER. This thread will not be "out of site". If Chris can still keep it out of mind, well, then that sends a very clear message, doesn't it?
02-04-2008, 06:23 AM
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IMO the complete lack of a response from a sponsor on this forum to a long standing member of this forum and supermod of sister site IS a substantive update. Perhaps a little help from the LS1Tech mods and admins is in order if my bumping this thread is that much of an issue.
Have you ever heard the phrase "out of site, out of mind"? Well, that certainly applies here. This has been going on since OCTOBER. This thread will not be "out of site". If Chris can still keep it out of mind, well, then that sends a very clear message, doesn't it?
Have you ever heard the phrase "out of site, out of mind"? Well, that certainly applies here. This has been going on since OCTOBER. This thread will not be "out of site". If Chris can still keep it out of mind, well, then that sends a very clear message, doesn't it?
Second, you know who you can contact if you want to apply more pressure to this sponsor. I don't see this getting resolved by bumping this thread. Turbo companies are notorious for being nonresponsive and slow to provide any sort of customer service, positive or otherwise.
If you feel you need to bump this once or twice a week, so be it - I won't stop you - just not every other day.
02-04-2008, 09:00 AM
#16
I AM A MOTHERF*CKER
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I was bumping it twice a week and not every other day. FX is not a turbo company -- it's a coating company. I've never had a second's worth of trouble from a turbo company 
You missed the pun I guess... This is a "site" and not a "sight".
You missed the pun I guess... This is a "site" and not a "sight".
02-04-2008, 09:12 AM
#17
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You should use a free 'ware like Irfanview to resize the pics FWIW, that's what I use.
So you guys are suing each other at this point? Sorry to hear that, hope you guys get this figured out.
So you guys are suing each other at this point? Sorry to hear that, hope you guys get this figured out.
02-04-2008, 01:15 PM
#18
Replying to this post is near impossible with the picture load. You can host your pictures on any free site and link to it, I think this preventing some response from being posted.
From a moderator on PT net:
From a moderator on PT net:
Originally Posted by trever1t
Hello,
I thought I might offer an opinion on the coating issues "TurboBerserker" had posted in the sponsor feedback section.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post8530127
To Qualify myself,
I am a Quality Engineer with better than 17 years in the metal finishing business. I am trained through experience to investigate and determine root cause of coating failure.
After reviewing the assortment of photographs I can only conclude that surface preparation was lacking prior to the application of the coating. The photographs clearly show a blistering and a de-lamination of the coating from the substrate which is a classical indication of a surface contamination that existed before the coating was applied.
Pre-treatment (cleaning) of materials is paramount to producing a good coating by activating and therefore allowing sufficient adhesion of the subsequent coating. If the substrate is not cleaned, rinsed and dried sufficiently prior to coating, lightly embedded particles, tooling residues and organics will prevent the coating from bonding with the substrate.
Subsequent heat cycles in this particular application would contribute to the de-lamination by allowing the gasses trapped under the coating to expand and cause the blistering noted.
The root cause of this failure could be as simple as
contaminated rinses and commonly this is the case.
As a metal finisher I have seen similar conditions on occasion for which we, the Coaters would have to assume responsibility for the costs of stripping and re-coating.
While rejects are not received with joy it is understood that the consumer should be able to expect a reasonable quality and service life. It is my opinion that TurboBerserker received neither.
You may contact me at any time and I would be more than willing to answer any questions you may have.
Sincerely,
Bill Grayson
Quality Engineer
Santa Clara Plating Co., Inc.
1773 Grant Street
Santa Clara, Ca. 95050
(408) 727-9315
I thought I might offer an opinion on the coating issues "TurboBerserker" had posted in the sponsor feedback section.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post8530127
To Qualify myself,
I am a Quality Engineer with better than 17 years in the metal finishing business. I am trained through experience to investigate and determine root cause of coating failure.
After reviewing the assortment of photographs I can only conclude that surface preparation was lacking prior to the application of the coating. The photographs clearly show a blistering and a de-lamination of the coating from the substrate which is a classical indication of a surface contamination that existed before the coating was applied.
Pre-treatment (cleaning) of materials is paramount to producing a good coating by activating and therefore allowing sufficient adhesion of the subsequent coating. If the substrate is not cleaned, rinsed and dried sufficiently prior to coating, lightly embedded particles, tooling residues and organics will prevent the coating from bonding with the substrate.
Subsequent heat cycles in this particular application would contribute to the de-lamination by allowing the gasses trapped under the coating to expand and cause the blistering noted.
The root cause of this failure could be as simple as
contaminated rinses and commonly this is the case.
As a metal finisher I have seen similar conditions on occasion for which we, the Coaters would have to assume responsibility for the costs of stripping and re-coating.
While rejects are not received with joy it is understood that the consumer should be able to expect a reasonable quality and service life. It is my opinion that TurboBerserker received neither.
You may contact me at any time and I would be more than willing to answer any questions you may have.
Sincerely,
Bill Grayson
Quality Engineer
Santa Clara Plating Co., Inc.
1773 Grant Street
Santa Clara, Ca. 95050
(408) 727-9315
02-04-2008, 07:03 PM
#19
I AM A MOTHERF*CKER
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He is not suing me, and has no basis to do so -- I paid him in full and in good faith. I will not comment on the other side of the coin other than to say no legal papers have been filed at this point.
Basically, Chris' entire method of response has been to delay and delay and delay. When I involved counsel, Chris offered me a $200 refund after 4-5 weeks of back and forth and with him playing victim, and claiming there was nothing wrong with the parts again.
I've got every email he sent me saved and with my replies. I can post them if you like.
Last edited by TurboBerserker; 02-04-2008 at 08:53 PM.
02-05-2008, 09:26 AM
#20
Ok Erik. I'll bite.
I will post one response to publicly re-state my position. How disdainful of you to heckle for a response from me publicly when legal counsel has been secured for both parties in this matter.
I will not post up the numerous fabrications and contradictions in your story above, as they are of no consequence. I am only posting to remind you of my past and current willingness to fix anything faulty, be it due to an application error, or exposure to exraneous elements, or negligence on your part. It doesn't matter to me. I am not debating that at least some of the coating is bad. The black and white of it is.... I will fix anything bad. Just get it to my door.
This is the lie that matters. "Chris also admitted that the coating didn't seem to be holding up to the heat as advertised, but would still not accept all the parts back" (Erik 1/20/08)
Here are a few of my emailed responses to you.
"I'm sorry that you moved across the country the week after I finished the last of your parts. Logistically it has put us both in an uncomfortable position, but not a situation that I am unwilling to work with. My offer to repair any parts experiencing degraded coating due to an application error or faulty product stands. " (FX 10-29-07)
"I think you should send a few of the worst parts back for starts, both so I can get them looking good, and figure out the problem." (FX 10-25-07)
"I was simply suggesting you send the headers and the crossover part you are
with immediately so I can diagnose the problem and fix it, but you are
welcome to send anything back that is of concern. I stand behind anything we
do... the challenge, here is geographic." (FX 10-24-7)
You said above- "At this point, I know Chris is never going to make good and am pursuing other options." (Erik 10-20-08)
Here's another attempt to make good with you in an email-
"I would love to clear this up with you immediately if that's what you're after. When you picked up the parts you stated that the winter down time would be best to take of problem parts, but if you want it now, send them now." (FX 2nd correspondance 10-24-7)
Here's me making sure I made myself available for his concerns, as I am very busy and travel frequently-
"I'd like to see a few close-ups of the rust, when it's convenient for you. I'll be away from my computer for the next few days but as always can be reached on my cell @ ***-***-****
Chris" (FX 10-11-7)
I will post one response to publicly re-state my position. How disdainful of you to heckle for a response from me publicly when legal counsel has been secured for both parties in this matter.
I will not post up the numerous fabrications and contradictions in your story above, as they are of no consequence. I am only posting to remind you of my past and current willingness to fix anything faulty, be it due to an application error, or exposure to exraneous elements, or negligence on your part. It doesn't matter to me. I am not debating that at least some of the coating is bad. The black and white of it is.... I will fix anything bad. Just get it to my door.
This is the lie that matters. "Chris also admitted that the coating didn't seem to be holding up to the heat as advertised, but would still not accept all the parts back" (Erik 1/20/08)
Here are a few of my emailed responses to you.
"I'm sorry that you moved across the country the week after I finished the last of your parts. Logistically it has put us both in an uncomfortable position, but not a situation that I am unwilling to work with. My offer to repair any parts experiencing degraded coating due to an application error or faulty product stands. " (FX 10-29-07)
"I think you should send a few of the worst parts back for starts, both so I can get them looking good, and figure out the problem." (FX 10-25-07)
"I was simply suggesting you send the headers and the crossover part you are
with immediately so I can diagnose the problem and fix it, but you are
welcome to send anything back that is of concern. I stand behind anything we
do... the challenge, here is geographic." (FX 10-24-7)
You said above- "At this point, I know Chris is never going to make good and am pursuing other options." (Erik 10-20-08)
Here's another attempt to make good with you in an email-
"I would love to clear this up with you immediately if that's what you're after. When you picked up the parts you stated that the winter down time would be best to take of problem parts, but if you want it now, send them now." (FX 2nd correspondance 10-24-7)
Here's me making sure I made myself available for his concerns, as I am very busy and travel frequently-
"I'd like to see a few close-ups of the rust, when it's convenient for you. I'll be away from my computer for the next few days but as always can be reached on my cell @ ***-***-****
Chris" (FX 10-11-7)
Last edited by Whistler; 02-05-2008 at 09:37 AM.