Friend's MCSS VS LS1 Camaro
03-19-2013, 07:12 PM
#61
I had gtp's and still have a couple lightly modded regal gs's in the family fleet , same w body platform , same 4t65e trans...give me a stock ls4 car for an hour , let me throw my hoosiers , gto spring blockers , and do the cable mod to the rear suspension and with 300 hp if it doesnt run mid 13's in decent racing weather or at least 13.9 on a hot day I would be shocked and disappointed in myself and the car - its super easy to get 3800SC cars to mid 13's with intake,exhaust , conservative pulley drop ,tune , traction ( well enough to go 1.9/2.0 60's anyways marginal for f body decent for w body) done this with half a dozen of my own cars and helped several others get similar results on similar mods , I cant imagine its harder to get an ls powered one to run a number than a 3800 car....
they wont typically break stock trannys till you get them in the 12's or sub 1.9 60's but they can be made pretty durable with upgraded drive chains and input shafts. My quickest w body (4 door gtp 170,000 miles) had a built dynotech trans and ran 12.2 @118 on 1.9 60's car went through several owners and never broke the upgraded trans...
They are both great moddable platforms we are discussing here and both gm vehicles - strengths and weaknesses is what you have not good and bad....
I havent owned or driven an ls engined w body but the w bodies I have owned ( mostly buick gs's) are tight , quiet , well finished cars , the 4th gen f bodies the rwd is a plus and the v8 sound sure beats a v6 sound , interiors kinda cheap though but the w body is just a nice comfortable car , my daily buick gs has 220,000 miles , hundreds of track passes on dr's and has run as quick as 13.1 @109
03-19-2013, 07:18 PM
#62
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I still own a couple w bodys but was heavily into them before getting into ls1 cars , kind of like a gateway drug lol I had gtp's and still have a couple lightly modded regal gs's in the family fleet , same w body platform , same 4t65e trans...
give me a stock ls4 car for an hour , let me throw my hoosiers , gto spring blockers , and do the cable mod to the rear suspension and with 300 hp if it doesnt run mid 13's in decent racing weather or at least 13.9 on a hot day I would be shocked and disappointed in myself and the car - its super easy to get 3800SC cars to mid 13's with intake,exhaust , conservative pulley drop ,tune , traction ( well enough to go 1.9/2.0 60's anyways marginal for f body decent for w body) done this with half a dozen of my own cars and helped several others get similar results on similar mods , I cant imagine its harder to get an ls powered one to run a number than a 3800 car....
they wont typically break stock trannys till you get them in the 12's or sub 1.9 60's but they can be made pretty durable with upgraded drive chains and input shafts. My quickest w body (4 door gtp 170,000 miles) had a built dynotech trans and ran 12.2 @118 on 1.9 60's car went through several owners and never broke the upgraded trans...
They are both great moddable platforms we are discussing here and both gm vehicles - strengths and weaknesses is what you have not good and bad....
I havent owned or driven an ls engined w body but the w bodies I have owned ( mostly buick gs's) are tight , quiet , well finished cars , the 4th gen f bodies the rwd is a plus and the v8 sound sure beats a v6 sound , interiors kinda cheap though but the w body is just a nice comfortable car , my daily buick gs has 220,000 miles , hundreds of track passes on dr's and has run as quick as 13.1 @109
I had gtp's and still have a couple lightly modded regal gs's in the family fleet , same w body platform , same 4t65e trans...give me a stock ls4 car for an hour , let me throw my hoosiers , gto spring blockers , and do the cable mod to the rear suspension and with 300 hp if it doesnt run mid 13's in decent racing weather or at least 13.9 on a hot day I would be shocked and disappointed in myself and the car - its super easy to get 3800SC cars to mid 13's with intake,exhaust , conservative pulley drop ,tune , traction ( well enough to go 1.9/2.0 60's anyways marginal for f body decent for w body) done this with half a dozen of my own cars and helped several others get similar results on similar mods , I cant imagine its harder to get an ls powered one to run a number than a 3800 car....
they wont typically break stock trannys till you get them in the 12's or sub 1.9 60's but they can be made pretty durable with upgraded drive chains and input shafts. My quickest w body (4 door gtp 170,000 miles) had a built dynotech trans and ran 12.2 @118 on 1.9 60's car went through several owners and never broke the upgraded trans...
They are both great moddable platforms we are discussing here and both gm vehicles - strengths and weaknesses is what you have not good and bad....
I havent owned or driven an ls engined w body but the w bodies I have owned ( mostly buick gs's) are tight , quiet , well finished cars , the 4th gen f bodies the rwd is a plus and the v8 sound sure beats a v6 sound , interiors kinda cheap though but the w body is just a nice comfortable car , my daily buick gs has 220,000 miles , hundreds of track passes on dr's and has run as quick as 13.1 @109
The only thing I'll dispute is, the 4T65 trans is not the same, which is partially why we have problems that you L67 guys don't have!
03-20-2013, 12:01 AM
#63
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The 4T65E needs a trans cooler from day one. Heat is a enemy!
With that said, I still have not heard of anyone breaking or blowing a 4T65E. Valves in the valve body seize up, or the torque converter clutch goes out. I do not consider the trans weak, it just needs a cooler and a shift kit. I did not break my trans with engine mods. 4th gear started to hunt due to a loose valve in the channel plate. The trans shop told me everything looked good when they rebuilt it with TEP parts. Heat is the main issue. I live in the northwest and my trans temps would rarely get above 190* During the summer I would see no more then 210* Now you southern boys have probably see temps well above that just cruising.
I am still using the stock torque converter just for the record. It has 68,000 miles on in with tons of drag passes.
The LS4 engine needs the LS6 intake to be competitive. The stock manifold is pure junk. It necks down to 55mm or so. Unfortunately, the swap is not something that most people are willing to tackle. Once the intake is swapped, I recommend headers with 3" into dual 2.50" dual exhaust, followed by a cam swap, or 1.8 roller rockers with LS6 yellow (new versions are blue) These mods should net 6 more MPH in the 1/4 mile (105-106).
Once the trans gets cracked open 3.69's are the only way to go, since 2nd gear is so..... long.....
Putting a stock LS4 up against a stock LS1 is retard. The F bodies are lighter, have better gearing, more HP/TQ and are probably more aerodynamic. I think stock A4's dyno 275-300 whp and Stock LS4's dyno 225-245 whp. It is still fun to race, and a win is a win. Paper facts don't me **** (What does it run son?)
I personally love the W body as a daily driver. FWD is very safe and predictable. I like having a full trunk that is concealed, and a car that is pretty dam easy to work on. Would I buy it again? Blink...blink...
Lets just put it this way.. I would rather have a Corvette then a F body. I would rather have a GT40 then a LS6 Vette. I would rather have Ferrari then a GT40.
Point is; mod what you got, and be proud. The Honda guy's do it all the time.
Deal with the typo's and grammar. I'm going to bed! zzzzz
With that said, I still have not heard of anyone breaking or blowing a 4T65E. Valves in the valve body seize up, or the torque converter clutch goes out. I do not consider the trans weak, it just needs a cooler and a shift kit. I did not break my trans with engine mods. 4th gear started to hunt due to a loose valve in the channel plate. The trans shop told me everything looked good when they rebuilt it with TEP parts. Heat is the main issue. I live in the northwest and my trans temps would rarely get above 190* During the summer I would see no more then 210* Now you southern boys have probably see temps well above that just cruising.
I am still using the stock torque converter just for the record. It has 68,000 miles on in with tons of drag passes.
The LS4 engine needs the LS6 intake to be competitive. The stock manifold is pure junk. It necks down to 55mm or so. Unfortunately, the swap is not something that most people are willing to tackle. Once the intake is swapped, I recommend headers with 3" into dual 2.50" dual exhaust, followed by a cam swap, or 1.8 roller rockers with LS6 yellow (new versions are blue) These mods should net 6 more MPH in the 1/4 mile (105-106).
Once the trans gets cracked open 3.69's are the only way to go, since 2nd gear is so..... long.....
Putting a stock LS4 up against a stock LS1 is retard. The F bodies are lighter, have better gearing, more HP/TQ and are probably more aerodynamic. I think stock A4's dyno 275-300 whp and Stock LS4's dyno 225-245 whp. It is still fun to race, and a win is a win. Paper facts don't me **** (What does it run son?)
I personally love the W body as a daily driver. FWD is very safe and predictable. I like having a full trunk that is concealed, and a car that is pretty dam easy to work on. Would I buy it again? Blink...blink...
Lets just put it this way.. I would rather have a Corvette then a F body. I would rather have a GT40 then a LS6 Vette. I would rather have Ferrari then a GT40.
Point is; mod what you got, and be proud. The Honda guy's do it all the time.
Deal with the typo's and grammar. I'm going to bed! zzzzz
Last edited by DavidGXP; 03-20-2013 at 12:13 AM.
03-20-2013, 06:57 PM
#65
03-20-2013, 09:02 PM
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OK I know you guys get the upgraded gemini drive chain that 3800 guys use as a budget solution on a high 12 sec car and that some electronics changed on all 4t65e's in 2003 and later , I imagine the bellhousing bolt pattern is going to be different for the ls4 but what else is so drastically different ? I am not asking sarcastically but rather so that I can educate myself as I can see myself owning an ls4 car down the road when I can by then for 3 grand or so like I buy modded 4th gens with high miles for
03-20-2013, 11:07 PM
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OK I know you guys get the upgraded gemini drive chain that 3800 guys use as a budget solution on a high 12 sec car and that some electronics changed on all 4t65e's in 2003 and later , I imagine the bellhousing bolt pattern is going to be different for the ls4 but what else is so drastically different ? I am not asking sarcastically but rather so that I can educate myself as I can see myself owning an ls4 car down the road when I can by then for 3 grand or so like I buy modded 4th gens with high miles for
04-25-2013, 09:53 AM
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OK I know you guys get the upgraded gemini drive chain that 3800 guys use as a budget solution on a high 12 sec car and that some electronics changed on all 4t65e's in 2003 and later , I imagine the bellhousing bolt pattern is going to be different for the ls4 but what else is so drastically different ? I am not asking sarcastically but rather so that I can educate myself as I can see myself owning an ls4 car down the road when I can by then for 3 grand or so like I buy modded 4th gens with high miles for
#1 problem is the torque converter. The pressure plate starts flexing more and more over time and eats it self up sending metal through the whole trans and tearing up the clutches. I just had mine built with sonnax stuff and is the reason im more confident in modding the car now but ive owned it for 2 years now and was always scared at some point it would just go out. And finally it happened and it happened quick. It took less a week from the time i had it slip into 2nd gear and I knew it was hurt to the time it was almost not driveable. The trans guy said it was the most metal he has ever seen in a pan before....and i changed the fluid and filter twice in the 20k miles i put on it.
second thing is the 3rd gear is weaker due to the plunger design and how it unevenly moves the low pressure fluid to apply the clutches.
04-25-2013, 11:42 AM
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Great Run But i have to agree, Seems like it has more. My friend has a MCSS on nos and i showed him this video and he says its sprayed. Yu can tell....2nd gear gives it away. BUT its cool...."get it how you live"
Not hatin. Either
Not hatin. Either
