electric water pump?
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TECH Regular
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 443
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From: tampa
electric water pump? back when i was building the 350 SBC in the IROC i was told that electric water pumps werent good for daily driven cars, but was wondering how it would work out for the LT1. i was looking at the Meziere 55 GPM water pump would be good for the LT1.
would i notice any gains in HP?
are they reliable enough for a daily driver?
is 55 GPM way overkill? i would rather be overcooled than overheat (as i do live in FL)
is the 8 amp draw going to kill my voltage? (although i do have a brand new alternator in there as of last week). would it be too much draw if i put an amp in for my subs as well probably only ~800-1000 watts RMS?
sorry if these seem like dumb questions. what do i need to do to the serpentine drive?
would i notice any gains in HP?
are they reliable enough for a daily driver?
is 55 GPM way overkill? i would rather be overcooled than overheat (as i do live in FL)
is the 8 amp draw going to kill my voltage? (although i do have a brand new alternator in there as of last week). would it be too much draw if i put an amp in for my subs as well probably only ~800-1000 watts RMS?
sorry if these seem like dumb questions. what do i need to do to the serpentine drive?
EWP is a good mod and it will free up some extra horsepower because the stock pump is cam driven. You will need to do nothing to the serpentine drive system. Hopefully someone else can answer the voltage question, I'm pretty sure you'd be fine if you didnt run the sub
The electrics move far LESS water at mid to higher rpms than the mechanical, so no real chance of overcooling with one.
They do make the car roughly .1 faster at the track which is accomplished by freeing up power due to moving LESS water.
Yes they draw 8 amps and the alternator puts out I think 135apms(b-body got 105 or 135/140 depending who you ask) whether this is a problem depends on your battery and the rest of the other accessories.
I would recommend gears before the WP, especially with the M6.
I think electric waterpumps are done way way too often, leave them to the guys trying to get that extra .1 at the track. They are less reliable because instead of leaking a little as a failure they suddenly completely stop, heck even a little wiring issue cold caost you the engine fast. I am not sayng they are a bad mod, just saying IMO your application does not sound like it is a good fit.
They do make the car roughly .1 faster at the track which is accomplished by freeing up power due to moving LESS water.
Yes they draw 8 amps and the alternator puts out I think 135apms(b-body got 105 or 135/140 depending who you ask) whether this is a problem depends on your battery and the rest of the other accessories.
I would recommend gears before the WP, especially with the M6.
I think electric waterpumps are done way way too often, leave them to the guys trying to get that extra .1 at the track. They are less reliable because instead of leaking a little as a failure they suddenly completely stop, heck even a little wiring issue cold caost you the engine fast. I am not sayng they are a bad mod, just saying IMO your application does not sound like it is a good fit.
i have the 55gpm model and do agree with caprice. bought mine more for cooling between runs with the engine not running though. while cruising my temps are lower than with my mechanical pump but i also removed my a/c so I have a lot more air crossing the radiator than if the condensor was blocking. Also, not sure if the gauge is accurate but my voltmeter drops hard on wot runs. goes from around 14v to below 12v depending on how long i stay on the throttle.
The electrics move far LESS water at mid to higher rpms than the mechanical, so no real chance of overcooling with one.
They do make the car roughly .1 faster at the track which is accomplished by freeing up power due to moving LESS water.
Yes they draw 8 amps and the alternator puts out I think 135apms(b-body got 105 or 135/140 depending who you ask) whether this is a problem depends on your battery and the rest of the other accessories.
I would recommend gears before the WP, especially with the M6.
I think electric waterpumps are done way way too often, leave them to the guys trying to get that extra .1 at the track. They are less reliable because instead of leaking a little as a failure they suddenly completely stop, heck even a little wiring issue cold caost you the engine fast. I am not sayng they are a bad mod, just saying IMO your application does not sound like it is a good fit.
They do make the car roughly .1 faster at the track which is accomplished by freeing up power due to moving LESS water.
Yes they draw 8 amps and the alternator puts out I think 135apms(b-body got 105 or 135/140 depending who you ask) whether this is a problem depends on your battery and the rest of the other accessories.
I would recommend gears before the WP, especially with the M6.
I think electric waterpumps are done way way too often, leave them to the guys trying to get that extra .1 at the track. They are less reliable because instead of leaking a little as a failure they suddenly completely stop, heck even a little wiring issue cold caost you the engine fast. I am not sayng they are a bad mod, just saying IMO your application does not sound like it is a good fit.
Been running the same EWP since I bought the car in Mar '06 and subsequently found that I had a
dead mechanical WP when I got it home. I drive the car as my DD most of the year and it has seen
the track many times. No issues. It's an easy install and a quick 10rwhp
You treat an EWP failure the same way you treat a mechanical pump failure,
remove it, replace it .... done. If wired up correctly (using appropriate wires, fuse and relay)
You'll enjoy many years of trouble-free operation.
Stock pump = Dead at 31,000 (March 2006)
EWP = Still running strong at 62,000 (November 2008)
dead mechanical WP when I got it home. I drive the car as my DD most of the year and it has seen
the track many times. No issues. It's an easy install and a quick 10rwhp
You treat an EWP failure the same way you treat a mechanical pump failure,
remove it, replace it .... done. If wired up correctly (using appropriate wires, fuse and relay)
You'll enjoy many years of trouble-free operation.
Stock pump = Dead at 31,000 (March 2006)
EWP = Still running strong at 62,000 (November 2008)
i have one,
and it tends to keep the car too cool in the winter time.
i should have saved my money.
i don`t know when the nonsense of an EWP not flowing more than
stock at RPM comes from.
an EWP out flows a stock pump constantly.
and it tends to keep the car too cool in the winter time.
i should have saved my money.
i don`t know when the nonsense of an EWP not flowing more than
stock at RPM comes from.
an EWP out flows a stock pump constantly.
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Verdad Gallardo You don't know what you are talking about. If you had an elementary school understanding of physics you would understand that you can not do more work with less power input by changing energy forms TWICE. The mechanical uses rotation to move water, the electric uses the alternator to turn rotation into electricity and then the electric motor of the pump to turn electricity back into rotation. That is inherently inefficient.
Since the mechanical is purely engine rpm dependant it has to be designed to flow enough at the stock very low idle speeds, as such at high rpms it moves a LOT of water. At 4800engine rpms it moves 66gpm as restricted by the cooling system(according to SAE data) compared to 55gpm FREEFLOW for the Meziere. Being a simple impeller, not a positive displacement pump, restriction substantially hampers it.
I have had this argument way too many times and it still pisses me off how many people believe that crap without any attempt to look at the science of it. This is why there are so many BAD products out there.
You want to argue it come up with some science to backup your beliefs.
As long as you are not road racing the EWP is fine. The stocker does outperform it at high rpms, but a drag or street car does not stay in those rpm ranges long enough to really make a difference.
During normal driving the EWP will flow more and will keep the car cooler (while freeing up 10+rwhp), while at sustained high rpm driving the stocker will do a better job at keeping the temps down - albeit at the cost of a couple hp.
During normal driving the EWP will flow more and will keep the car cooler (while freeing up 10+rwhp), while at sustained high rpm driving the stocker will do a better job at keeping the temps down - albeit at the cost of a couple hp.
Actually some of the brighter folks have found increased temps at cruise with some of the electric pumps. By 2400rpms the restricted mechanical already outflows the freeflow rating of many of the electrics.
Again I urge folks to use DATA to backup their posts not just blindly believe what some kid on the internet told you.
Electrics again are adequate for most purposes but they deserve no more credit than "adequate".
Again I urge folks to use DATA to backup their posts not just blindly believe what some kid on the internet told you.
Electrics again are adequate for most purposes but they deserve no more credit than "adequate".
TECH Veteran
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,985
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Mr Jennings scientific "opinion" aside...as mentioned the EWP has some + HP effect. It has a constant flow vs the low to high depending on RPM of a stock unit.
"My" direct experience is the EWP has outlasted a stock WP by years and miles. It does not leak in the area of a stock unit which then exposes the Opti to problems. If wired correctly it is very stable. I have had one on the car for 7 years, 50,000 miles, with no issues. FWY temps or city driving temp is constant.
Weather it gives more HP or increase 1/4 mi performance...OK it does but was not the reason I did it. Reliability over the stock AC Delcos was what pushed me towards it. I have had a replacement in the trunk for years but never needed it. If I had a failure replaceing it would take 10 minutes. I also set up the "quick bleed" mod from the guy in Canada years ago so bleeding the cooling system is simple and mess free.
My "Data" is from direct experience and the EWP has proved superior to the mechanical in every aspect. With that said if the AC Delco would be reliable leak free WP like any other car made...I would still be using it.
"My" direct experience is the EWP has outlasted a stock WP by years and miles. It does not leak in the area of a stock unit which then exposes the Opti to problems. If wired correctly it is very stable. I have had one on the car for 7 years, 50,000 miles, with no issues. FWY temps or city driving temp is constant.
Weather it gives more HP or increase 1/4 mi performance...OK it does but was not the reason I did it. Reliability over the stock AC Delcos was what pushed me towards it. I have had a replacement in the trunk for years but never needed it. If I had a failure replaceing it would take 10 minutes. I also set up the "quick bleed" mod from the guy in Canada years ago so bleeding the cooling system is simple and mess free.
My "Data" is from direct experience and the EWP has proved superior to the mechanical in every aspect. With that said if the AC Delco would be reliable leak free WP like any other car made...I would still be using it.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,255
Likes: 11
From: centerville, ohio
Mr Jennings scientific "opinion" aside...as mentioned the EWP has some + HP effect. It has a constant flow vs the low to high depending on RPM of a stock unit.
"My" direct experience is the EWP has outlasted a stock WP by years and miles. It does not leak in the area of a stock unit which then exposes the Opti to problems. If wired correctly it is very stable. I have had one on the car for 7 years, 50,000 miles, with no issues. FWY temps or city driving temp is constant.
Weather it gives more HP or increase 1/4 mi performance...OK it does but was not the reason I did it. Reliability over the stock AC Delcos was what pushed me towards it. I have had a replacement in the trunk for years but never needed it. If I had a failure replaceing it would take 10 minutes. I also set up the "quick bleed" mod from the guy in Canada years ago so bleeding the cooling system is simple and mess free.
My "Data" is from direct experience and the EWP has proved superior to the mechanical in every aspect. With that said if the AC Delco would be reliable leak free WP like any other car made...I would still be using it.
"My" direct experience is the EWP has outlasted a stock WP by years and miles. It does not leak in the area of a stock unit which then exposes the Opti to problems. If wired correctly it is very stable. I have had one on the car for 7 years, 50,000 miles, with no issues. FWY temps or city driving temp is constant.
Weather it gives more HP or increase 1/4 mi performance...OK it does but was not the reason I did it. Reliability over the stock AC Delcos was what pushed me towards it. I have had a replacement in the trunk for years but never needed it. If I had a failure replaceing it would take 10 minutes. I also set up the "quick bleed" mod from the guy in Canada years ago so bleeding the cooling system is simple and mess free.
My "Data" is from direct experience and the EWP has proved superior to the mechanical in every aspect. With that said if the AC Delco would be reliable leak free WP like any other car made...I would still be using it.
*shrugs*, My car with EWP runs cooler now then it did with the mechanical wp during all normal driving, including in the summer heat and humidity in florida.
Not sure where the lines actually cross comparatively in RPM vs Flow (I remember that data being discussed and posted year or so ago either here or cz28), but I'm sure its above 2400rpm for all but the cheapest EWPs...my stalled auto cruises well over 3k rpm and it not only runs cooler with the CSR then it did with the stocker but is a breeze to bleed the system by running it with the car turned off.
I would still def not go with a cheap low flowing EWP, and if I was road racing or doing extended high rpms runs I would stick with the mechanical pump. I just think calling them only "adequate" for a high end model EWP is a bit of an understatement and they are more then enough for most applications.
Not sure where the lines actually cross comparatively in RPM vs Flow (I remember that data being discussed and posted year or so ago either here or cz28), but I'm sure its above 2400rpm for all but the cheapest EWPs...my stalled auto cruises well over 3k rpm and it not only runs cooler with the CSR then it did with the stocker but is a breeze to bleed the system by running it with the car turned off.
I would still def not go with a cheap low flowing EWP, and if I was road racing or doing extended high rpms runs I would stick with the mechanical pump. I just think calling them only "adequate" for a high end model EWP is a bit of an understatement and they are more then enough for most applications
. Actually some of the brighter folks have found increased temps at cruise with some of the electric pumps. By 2400rpms the restricted mechanical already outflows the freeflow rating of many of the electrics.
Again I urge folks to use DATA to backup their posts not just blindly believe what some kid on the internet told you.
Electrics again are adequate for most purposes but they deserve no more credit than "adequate".
Again I urge folks to use DATA to backup their posts not just blindly believe what some kid on the internet told you.
Electrics again are adequate for most purposes but they deserve no more credit than "adequate".
I have experiance with an electric and still say they are not a good mod for most cars.
I also put on a LOT of miles like 20-25K a year on my LT1s. From my observation a $40 parts store reman is better than the "new" mechanicals Roger was using. The "new" delcos are well known unreliable, you just made the mistake of paying $120 for garbage rather than $40 for a quality piece.
I also put on a LOT of miles like 20-25K a year on my LT1s. From my observation a $40 parts store reman is better than the "new" mechanicals Roger was using. The "new" delcos are well known unreliable, you just made the mistake of paying $120 for garbage rather than $40 for a quality piece.
9 Second Club
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 301
Likes: 0
From: ringgold,ga
i've done alot of swaps for people. i've noticed the autozone reman. w/p's are not reliable at all. i've seen two different one's have a pressed in hose fitting come out after a few days. one of which soaked the guys aftermarket alarm and the car wouldnt start. i've ran a csi el.w/p and had it go bad. the problem i noticed was the temp. would keep creeping the further i drove the car. it never quit working completely. but, after 10 miles of driving the temp. climbed to 215 with a 160 th. i swapped in a mezeire and the temp. runs a constant 160-165 winter and summer. the mezeire i have on my chevelle, see's alot of stop and go traffic aswell as highway use. it also get's raced almost every weekend. i've had it since feb.04.
I have one and the car runs cooler all the time. I also have a BBK underdrive pulley and the battery seems to charge just fine no loss what so ever. I bought the Mez HD LT1 pump from jegs and it comes with the relay/wiring and freeze plug.
96Caprice do you even have one or used one on your car?? I would consider the "Brighter Folks" on this subject the ones that actually have one on their car.
Hell the summit pump says for street use only
96Caprice do you even have one or used one on your car?? I would consider the "Brighter Folks" on this subject the ones that actually have one on their car.
Hell the summit pump says for street use only
I want an open debate not an argument there is a difference.
I ask those who disagree with me, where does the extra power at the wheels come from?
What specifically is the flaw in my opinions here?
I will admit electrics are adequate and they result in more power to the wheels, I just argue all the missinformation about where that power comes from.
I should make a point that all the flow data I post on the mechanical comes from a SAE document I paid to download. According to that data at about engine 2400rpms the mechanical moves 30gpm restricted and at 4800rpms moves 66gpm again restricted. So what part of my information or opinions would you like to specifically debate?
I ask those who disagree with me, where does the extra power at the wheels come from?
What specifically is the flaw in my opinions here?
I will admit electrics are adequate and they result in more power to the wheels, I just argue all the missinformation about where that power comes from.
I should make a point that all the flow data I post on the mechanical comes from a SAE document I paid to download. According to that data at about engine 2400rpms the mechanical moves 30gpm restricted and at 4800rpms moves 66gpm again restricted. So what part of my information or opinions would you like to specifically debate?