Mids w/ a cam okay?
Hey guys, I am trying to mod my car without spending a whole bunch of money and have decided to go with a cc 503 cam and maybe hit it with a 75-100 shot. I'm trying to save as much money as I can and was wondering if I would be okay staying with the Mac mids and doing an ORY. I know I would make more power with longtubes but is it enough to really have to spend the extra cash? I will be changing to a magnaflow catback as well because flowmasters aren't very good, which most of my mods were on the car when i bought it so I can't complain too much. I'm definately going with a Yank stall because I don't want to cheap out on the car but I want to save as much money as possible. So what do you guys think, are longtubes a must or will I be fine?
The "wide LSA for nitrous" thing is missaplied here. No need to do it unless you are spraying a whole lot more, lkie 2.5 times as much. What people fail to consider is the usual 112lsa is already quite wide compared to optimal.
http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ar/eb90252.htm
This is not new information the author states he did the testing in 1985 and it was frankly well known long before that, problem is real data has a hard time overcoming "conventional wisdom" .
This is not new information the author states he did the testing in 1985 and it was frankly well known long before that, problem is real data has a hard time overcoming "conventional wisdom" .
I think with the mid-length headers and the possible nitrous shot, I'd go with something that has a good 10+ degress more duration on the exhaust side than the intake side, and a fairly large LSA, like about 114 degrees. You can do better than a CC503 for this application.
http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ar/eb90252.htm
This is not new information the author states he did the testing in 1985 and it was frankly well known long before that, problem is real data has a hard time overcoming "conventional wisdom" .
This is not new information the author states he did the testing in 1985 and it was frankly well known long before that, problem is real data has a hard time overcoming "conventional wisdom" .
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Verdad Gallardo I don't have to do any testing. That's the beauty of being literate.
"You can get a good look at a t-bone if you stick your head up a bull's @$$, but wouldn't you rather take the butcher's word for it?"
In other words, people and companies who make cams would make the same "conventional wisdom" recommendations I made to "meanredZ" based on the testing they've done, which is very safe to say, WAY more than you or anyone else here has done.
So my question to you "naysayers" is, what testing HAVE YOU DONE to dispell "conventional wisdom" on the LT1 engine?
"You can get a good look at a t-bone if you stick your head up a bull's @$$, but wouldn't you rather take the butcher's word for it?"
In other words, people and companies who make cams would make the same "conventional wisdom" recommendations I made to "meanredZ" based on the testing they've done, which is very safe to say, WAY more than you or anyone else here has done.
So my question to you "naysayers" is, what testing HAVE YOU DONE to dispell "conventional wisdom" on the LT1 engine?
What about the LT1 would cause it to want a substantially different cam than a gen 1 smallblock??
The off the shelf LT1 stuff is wide for a few reasons, people overcam and then complain about manners, emissions, ASSUMPTIONS that the computer couldn't handle overlap are the biggest reasons.
Since you seem to believe please show us data that suggests the 112-114LSA are benificial.
The off the shelf LT1 stuff is wide for a few reasons, people overcam and then complain about manners, emissions, ASSUMPTIONS that the computer couldn't handle overlap are the biggest reasons.
Since you seem to believe please show us data that suggests the 112-114LSA are benificial.
That's what I'm asking. What's really different about it that warrants the "major" cam grinders out there to use 4 degrees more LSA on the LT1? I was curious. There had to be a reason, and I'd agree A LOT of people out there "over cam" their engines. That's why one of the fastest cam only LT1s ran a "puny" Crane 227 (which by the way, has a 112 degree LSA).
Last edited by supernaturalta; Dec 5, 2008 at 08:37 PM.
I did. You can probably add to that, people also want their power brake equipped car to be able to stop. Optimum power may be had with some "lower" LSAs, and granted, a guy could just bump idle speed up some and voila, now you have enough vacuum for your brakes along with a smoother idle. I don't think there's many folks out there who likes their "street machine" idling at 1500rpm; the game completely changes when talking about dedicated race cars though. Even some of them are still better off with higher LSAs.
I did. You can probably add to that, people also want their power brake equipped car to be able to stop. Optimum power may be had with some "lower" LSAs, and granted, a guy could just bump idle speed up some and voila, now you have enough vacuum for your brakes along with a smoother idle. I don't think there's many folks out there who likes their "street machine" idling at 1500rpm; the game completely changes when talking about dedicated race cars though. Even some of them are still better off with higher LSAs.
Wow, no kidding? How much vacuum do you have at 800rpm?
.....and 96capricemgr, what would you recommend to the OP for a cam? I think we can agree that the CC503 isn't the "optimum" nitrous cam.
.....and 96capricemgr, what would you recommend to the OP for a cam? I think we can agree that the CC503 isn't the "optimum" nitrous cam.
Last edited by supernaturalta; Dec 5, 2008 at 09:42 PM.
, and my Ai cam so I have a pretty good idea how cams perform and drive in these cars. So as you can see I am speaking from personal experience, not what Ive read online or going with what the latest craze is. 
Could probably use a vacuum canister every once in a while when my idle drops too far, but I've yet to have a scare.
Who really wants cam surge in a street car? Who wants the crappy gas mileage associated with high overlap cams? Oh yeah, gee whiz some people even have to deal with a small thing called emissions compliance. Yes, those little things that someone with a purpose built race car doesn't have to worry about. 
I'm not sure if he posts here, but go to camaroz28.com and do a search for username "Frank95z". He's the example I used in my post about the Crane 227. He ran 11.40 with that cam on stock unported heads. Not only is that a "shelf" cam, it's a VERY mild shelf cam. He later moved on to a custom Joe Overton cam and went about .25 seconds faster, but he said his driveability suffered quite a bit just for that .25 seconds.
Since when does having the most power out of a cam the highest priority? Oh yeah, that would be on the racetrack. How much time does most people's cars spend on the racetrack? Who really wants cam surge in a street car? Who wants the crappy gas mileage associated with high overlap cams? Oh yeah, gee whiz some people even have to deal with a small thing called emissions compliance. Yes, those little things that someone with a purpose built race car doesn't have to worry about.
I'm not sure if he posts here, but go to camaroz28.com and do a search for username "Frank95z". He's the example I used in my post about the Crane 227. He ran 11.40 with that cam on stock unported heads. Not only is that a "shelf" cam, it's a VERY mild shelf cam. He later moved on to a custom Joe Overton cam and went about .25 seconds faster, but he said his driveability suffered quite a bit just for that .25 seconds.
Who really wants cam surge in a street car? Who wants the crappy gas mileage associated with high overlap cams? Oh yeah, gee whiz some people even have to deal with a small thing called emissions compliance. Yes, those little things that someone with a purpose built race car doesn't have to worry about. I'm not sure if he posts here, but go to camaroz28.com and do a search for username "Frank95z". He's the example I used in my post about the Crane 227. He ran 11.40 with that cam on stock unported heads. Not only is that a "shelf" cam, it's a VERY mild shelf cam. He later moved on to a custom Joe Overton cam and went about .25 seconds faster, but he said his driveability suffered quite a bit just for that .25 seconds.
You really need to stop talking about stuff you have 0 personal experience with. Pretty much everything you are saying is false. And I had the crane 227 cam before and this cam beats that cam in pretty much every category including lowend torque.