You have so much "personal experience" that you had to go through 4 cams to get what you now think is the right one. Give me a break kid, are you even 21 yet? And all you have is a dyno queen. Yes, 25mpg ain't $h!t. Come back in and talk when you get over 30, son. Oh, and lots of luck getting that dyno queen to pass emissions anywhere.
Nothing I'm saying is false. If you don't like what I say, take it up with (the late great) John Lingenfelter, Dave Emanuel, John Baechtel, etc. who have WAY more experience with this than ANY of us, including you. Get a grip already.

Anyway, does anyone actually have a "whiz-bang, unconventional, black-magical nitrous cam that defies the laws of conventional wisdom to make huge HP" to recommend to the OP?

 

I didnt realize 25 mpg averaging 85-90 mph was that bad. The best gas millage I have ever gotten was with the current camshaft, not either of the previous ones or even the stock one. And if anyone is that short on cash to where they have to worry about being able to afford to fill up their tank with gas they shouldn't be dumping thousands of dollars into the engine. So Ill ask again, what is your personal experience with cams of different sizes and LSA's and how they affect the previously mentioned performance/drivability aspects of the car? Or are you just going out of catalogs or what you read on the internet?

And why would I care about passing emissions in a state without emissions testing? I care about performance not emissions... Ive also stated in the past many times that my car is setup for road courses, not 1/4 mile, but then again a simple glance at the suspension mods in my sig would tell you that.

If you want to see my age simply go into my profile and look, but I fail to see how that is relevant here.

If you want to see how LT1s with tighter LSAs than the average off the shelf camshaft perform simply visit this page and look at all of the actual results.

http://www.advancedinduction.com/AiProductsLT1.html

 

This thread isn't about you or me. It's about the OP. Has it ever occured to you that maybe some people would want to have their cake and eat it too? Because if the right combination of parts is chosen, it can result in much improved power AND fuel economy. From the sounds of the OP, it doesn't sound like he's exactly building a race car, but a fairly mild street car with a small shot of nitrous.

Let's put it this way. I have enough of this "personal experience" you keep talking about to get my choice of engine parts RIGHT the 1ST TIME, unlike some people here who have gone through 4 camshafts and 3 sets of heads before some cam/head "zenmaster" saved his @$$. Maybe if you cracked open a book or two and learned something before throwing wads of money at your car, you wouldn't have gone through all that crap.

Again, this is about the OP, not you. Maybe HE has to pass emissions. You did notice he was going with mid-length headers and an ORY, right? Swap the cat back in, and with the right cam/tune, hello emissions legality.

It's simple. You haven't been alive long enough to be talking about "personal experience" with me.

This can only be summed up one way:

You =

Really, are you on AI's payroll or something?

You know, AI does build some top-notch stuff. So does LE. So does LPE, Crane, Comp Cams, Crower, Lunati, Erson, Iskendarian (Isky), etc.....the list goes on and on. They've been doing this a LONG time, and there's no more "black magic fairy dust" left. What's known is pretty much known; some may call that "conventional wisdom".

The OP has:
Stock long block LT1
Mac mid-length headers/standard 3" cat back
4L60 transmission
3.73 gears
75-100hp shot of nitrous

With that given information, do you really think that ANY of those cam manufacturers would recommend a single pattern cam with 106-108 degrees of LSA?

ALL of the above factors have a profound effect on cam selection - especially the nitrous shot (despite some thinking otherwise).
Pick the right cam, and you get ALL of that 75-100hp; pick the wrong cam and you might as well spray the nitrous right out the exhaust pipe.
Plus, there needs to be as much exhaust flow as possible with the nitrous; hence the 10+ degree recommendation of intake/exhaust duration split to help the stock exhaust port and 1 5/8" mid-length headers.
There's the stock short block, so that means around a 6300rpm limit for some semblance of reliability (especially with the shot of nitrous).
Then, there's the wide spacing of the 4L60's gear ratios, which would require a broader powerband than say, a car with a T56. Some quick math (1.63/3.06 times 6300rpm; 1.00/1.63 times 6300 rpm) tells me the engine will spend ALL but possibly the launch time in the quarter mile between about 3300-6300rpm. Any takers on the effects on a given engine's powerband as a function of LSA/IVC/EVO?
Oh yeah, let's not forget about matching the cam (duration) to the 3.73 gears. Too much duration and the car will be a dog, too little and it will run out of steam too soon in the top end.
Given that information, again, my recommendation would be something along the lines of a CC305. I'm sure any one of the aforementioned grinders/manufacturers with their extensive testing/experience/simulation software can narrow it down much better, but that's the ballpark I'd recommend looking in. On top of that, I'd bet dollars to doughnuts there is a "shelf" grind that exists out there that would fit his needs very well.

 

Gas mileage and emissions? Did I just stumble into a Honda forum?

 

The Comp 503 would work OK on or off nitrous. He is looking at a small shot and picking a "nitrous grind" would be a bad idea as it would compromise NA performance without any payback on the bottle. "nitrous grinds" are only worthwhile once you start looking at 250+ shots.

On the vacuum and mileage concerns you are just wrong.

LSA is focused on too much, overlap is what we need to talk about. One car I work on with a HOT camish duration and lift but on a 108 LSA runs great, year round daily driver and in a cam only HEAVY car can give a Golen stoker a good run and pople pretend the golen stuff is good. It doesn't have any more overlap than a larger cam might on a 110lsa.

Again why is it that you think the LT1 needs vastly different cams from what a Gen 1 would need? What is the big difference?

This is not an Advanced Induction thing others do it too. As two others have already said they had BRE cams on tighter LSAs yet

Lingenfelter made some nice LT1 stuff BUT it was emissions legal and that is why it was 112LSA, not because it was right but because it was right for the emissions criteria. Lunati and Comp are both begining to offer tighter LSA cams for factory roller blocks.

Another thing that should be noted is a big part of the assumption that the computer could not handle a tight LSA with a lot of overlap is that the TBI injection systems could not handle it and people just assumed that applied to the sequential port injection setups too.

I get upper teens out of my pig in mixed driving only a couple MPG behind what I get with my wagons in the same driving, the wagons have 2.56 or 2.93 gears, stock stall, stock pretty much everything. Biggest mod for the 94 wagon not in my sig but that I am driving in the snow is a headlight kit I just bought but have not installed. The gears, the stall, the overlap do not hurt mileage the way folks assume they do. With the sedan I actually fill up drive 150 miles to the one track I run at race all day and make it another 150 miles home with plenty of fuel to spare, 300+ miles and 8-10 passes at the strip. Granted it is a big 23gallon tank but it is pancake flat so I try not to let it go under 1/4 ever, hell under a half and it starves at the strip.

There was a time when I believed all the gears/stall, cam kill mileage bs. but as I have gained experiance I have learned that the computer does a very good job of keeping it all in check, the sedan is easily 200hp up on the wagons and gets pretty close to the same mileage. I do think that purely highway the wagons would do better, but it is not often I get out on the highway for a full tank of fuel to really check it.

 

Hey guys, I realize the thread has kind of turned into a bit of an argument so here is some more information about my setup. I am not really looking for a race car. i will drive the car on the street most of the time but will go to the track about 8 to 10 times a year because I still want to have fun with it. I need it to have decent drivability and I wouldn't mind going with a smaller cam if that would work better. As for the LSA most off the shelf cams offer a 112 and a custom grind would start costing more and I'm trying to stay as low on the price as possible because I have college to get through. In the end I still want a car that will be a blast on the street and be quick at the track. I don't want a cam that will make nitrous not work as well but I figured a smaller shot would be okay with most cams. I don't really want to be replacing engine parts in 20,000 miles either.

 

For reference sake I went 12.06 @ 112.81 on a cc503 almost 5 years ago. It's a great little cam.

With mufflers behind it the cam is very tame.

 

It's quite amusing that you keep asking this. I've basically said to you "Why don't you tell me?" because nowhere have I said there's really any difference. You're the one who seems to claim you know something EVERYONE else does not - cam manufacturers included.

http://www.compcams.com/Technical/FA...eQuestions.asp

Pay particular attention to questions 2 and 3.

http://www.cranecams.com/?show=camQuestions

This pretty much mirrors what Comp says. If I felt like going to every other cam manufacturer's site, they'd probably have something VERY similar said to this. It's also ironic that I have no less than four Small Block Chevy books that say the same things these websites do. So the ball is in your court. Do you know something these guys don't? Let me save you the trouble and say I GUARANTEE you don't.

To the OP. I wish you luck on your build. My advice to you is: DO NOT take the words of ANYONE here, myself included, for gospel. Do your homework before you buy ANYTHING! The more research you do, the more intelligent decisions you can make for yourself about this stuff.

 

To the OP. I wish you luck on your build. My advice to you is: DO NOT take the words of ANYONE here, myself included, for gospel. Do your homework before you buy ANYTHING! The more research you do, the more intelligent decisions you can make for yourself about this stuff. [/QUOTE]

I like hearing everyones opinions because I know there are a lot
of smart guys on here who have a lot of experience with the LT1. I have spent a lot of time researching and trying to learn as much as I can for myself. I don't want to regret my decision.

 

You are missing critical information. They say "wider" and "narrower" but compared to what?? I am arguing that the off the shelf stuff is already fairly wide and going wider yet is unnecessary, they also do not specify how much boost or nitrous those comments are in relation too.

That is very general dumbed down "information", I linked to more in depth info from a guy who did the actual testing for some of those big companies as opposed to the drivel the marketing department puts on the website.

Maybe we will run into eachother at GLD once if you get up there, then I can show you just wrong everything I have done is.

To the OP the 503 will work fine, BUT if you find a good vendor they can sell you a custom Comp cam at the same price as an off the shelf. You are right in your assumption that with a small shot like you plan to run there wont be any real difference with the cams. Might look at the GM 846, just a touch smaller than the 503 and from memory I think a tiny bit more exhaust duration split. It is a Crane cam, Crane is often overlooked because they do not market as agressively, they have nice products though. These days marketing gets a company further than results, pretty sad.

 

Did you not read my posts? I'm putting out another ~170rwhp over stock and my fuel millage has increase.

The first set of heads were on my car from the start and they were nothing special. That being said they still performed better than after I got them back from a certain porter. The reason I went through so many camshafts is I fell into the exact same BS and internet hype you keep repeating without personal experience.
Stop assuming what he wants to do and ask what he wants to do. Telling him what parts will work without significan knowledge on his setup/goals us just reckless.
What does being alive long enough have to do with personal experience? Ive had this same car for over 5 and a half years now. Is that not enough experience with it? Are you also saying that the people that are overseas fighting for our country and freedom are too young to have any sort of personal experience with what is going on with the war? Or if they die they are too young to be remembered since they have no experience with life?
So far you have mentioned Ai as much as me in this thread, so going by your guidelines you are also an Ai nutswinger.
When did I say anything about a single pattern cam? I still havent seen any single pattern cam run faster than a cam with some bias towards the exhaust on LT1s
If he is only spraying a 75-100 shot of nitrous then spraying the exhaust out of the tailpipe is the least of his worrys. He needs to get a good n/a cam for his goals then spray ontop of it. A 75-100 shot doesnt even come close to warranting a nitrous cam.

 

My single pattern works

 

OK, since the books I have say the same things the "marketing dept." puts on those websites (just more explicitly), what do you want me to do, scan ALL the books I have into PDFs and post them here?

This isn't about what you have done. It's about what the OP is doing.
However, if you really feel like being put on the trailer by a guy who actually has to drive his car, and by a car with less mods than yours (and isn't built for the dragstrip), then be my guest.

The GM846 IIRC: 222/230 dur. @.050, .509/.528 lift w/1.5 rockers, 112LSA
CC305(ish): 220/230 dur. @.050, .510/.510 lift w/1.5 rockers, 114LSA

Wow, we are so worlds apart here.
The way you've been talking, it sounded like you'd think the guy would be better off with a more "conventional" SBC grind with a 108 degree LSA.

 

Are you in the military? If not, I'd tread a little more lightly with that rhetoric if I were you, sport. Not that it has anything to do with this thread, but to enlighten you (if that's even possible), I've been in the military over 16 years. Yes, if I'm approached by someone who's only been in 5 1/2 years, I'd call them a "boot camp" or "rookie", because to me, they are, and they're probably not going to teach me anything I don't already know.

Well.....now you have.

And Javier, everyone knows you've got a nice running LT1. However, your car is apples compared to the OP's oranges. He's running: stock heads, mid-length headers, standard cat back exhaust, plus spray. You: ported heads, long tube headers/x-pipe/dual exhaust. Guaranteed the OP will be better off using a dual pattern cam with a good 10+ degrees more exhaust duration than intake duration.


Since when have you seen the CC305 and "nitrous cam" in the same sentence?

 

Mids working fine for me since 2004 and 2006 with H/C...N2O up next.

 

I posted the 846 because the OP wants an off the shelf cam, my opinion though is that he would gain NA power going a little tighter maybe 110 without any nitrous compromises.

Far as the racecar accusation, complete BS. I could go into more detail but you lack the intellect to be able to understand what I say, so I am done.

To the OP, look for results in guys signatures, most guys who know what they are doing will be proud of it. One way to tell the bench racers from the experianced guys. Just try and look for clues about the whole setup.

 

I was talking about me having an M6 (and having to modulate a clutch, shift, shift fast, and shift at the right RPM) versus you who can just stage your car, push the gas, and steer straight. I'm very aware that your car isn't a "race car"; hence, the "daily driver" quote in your signature.

 

I have a GM847 in my car and it gets 25 mpg through an A4... and I have zero cam surge.

 

What compression ratio are you running? What rear gears? What's the stall RPM of your torque converter? As far-fetched as what you're saying sounds (you must have one hell of a tune), the fact that you have an automatic probably helps A LOT with regards to cam surge. If you had an M6, I GUARANTEE you'd have cam surge, unless you always kept the engine above 2500 or so RPM.
Oh yeah, what is the LSA on that cam again?

http://www.cranecams.com/index.php?s...41&lvl=2&prt=5

Survey says: 112 degrees LSA. What do you think would happen if that cam had 108 degrees LSA? One, you'd have 84 degrees of overlap instead of 76 degrees. Also, your HP would peak sooner and your torque would likely peak later. You could change that by advancing/retarding the cam, but you can't change that LSA and overlap. By the way, what idle speed is your engine set at? How much vacuum do you have at idle? How well do your brakes work? Are you using a vacuum canister?

 

Damn, that's a lot of questions!

11.6:1
3.42 gears
3600 stall, but even locked up there's no surging
I have actually been wanting to do this cam on a 108 to see what it does
Idle speed is 900
MAP sensor says ~55 best I can remember
Brakes are fine
No vacuum canister

And yes, I do have a pretty damn good tune.