So much money wasted ..... 
What heads to use on 396 stroker?
Gentlemen,
Rather than simply trying to find the "biggest" head you can get, why not look for the "best" for your application? SpeedDemon is right, there really isn't enough information for anyone to tell you what would be ideal for your application. We need constraints to work within. Primarily you need to establish a budget and whether or not you really mean street-able, or street primarily/daily driven. That information provided we can then determine how much power you can reliably make for X period of time.
As mentioned, our 215cc CNC'd TFS head was specifically designed for flat top piston 383/396's. It is large enough to make BIG power, but not so large that there are significant trade-offs down low when applied to 383/396's with an appropriate cam. You mention 550hp, but that will depend on engine dyno, setup, etc. For instance, a great many engines claim 520-550hp on an engine dyno, but only roll 380-400rwhp sae. We have never documented a 120-150hp loss through the drivetrain that I can recall. Even unlocked stalled 4l60's have only shown 80-100hp in most of these applications. If you say 550hp, in our estimation that would put you in the 450-480rwhp range which is only common with the "right" combination of parts & attention to detail.
"Rules of thumb" like 2hp/cfm are inaccurate and misleading. Tested with the same fixturing, bench, methodology, etc. there are heads that flow great and only make 1.7hp/cfm @ 28". On the other hand there are others designed with a focus on what actually matters that show 2.4hp/cfm. This has been the case even through a stock unwelded GM LT1 manifold. A properly done port that shows 300cfm at 28"h2o can make in excess of 700hp on the industry standard SF901 & DTS engine dynos. For example, the 215cc TFS head we CNC has proven it can produce in excess of 650 flywheel & 550rwhp SAE on pump fuel with the right setup. Rick's car may be set up well, but the 142mph trap speed NA on 93 octane is what most make note of.
In the end, your money is best spent on the highest quality machinework you can afford. We'd recommend that all of the guys thinking about starting a 383/396 build like this simply set $ aside and do not start buying parts as you can afford to. Save $4-6k for the top-end of the engine, $4-5 for the shortblock, and $3-5 for the misc. items and competent labor. If that is farther than you would like to go, find a stock shortblock in good condition or build a cheap 355. You will outrun ill-conceived strokers more often than not.
Good luck with your project!
Rather than simply trying to find the "biggest" head you can get, why not look for the "best" for your application? SpeedDemon is right, there really isn't enough information for anyone to tell you what would be ideal for your application. We need constraints to work within. Primarily you need to establish a budget and whether or not you really mean street-able, or street primarily/daily driven. That information provided we can then determine how much power you can reliably make for X period of time.
As mentioned, our 215cc CNC'd TFS head was specifically designed for flat top piston 383/396's. It is large enough to make BIG power, but not so large that there are significant trade-offs down low when applied to 383/396's with an appropriate cam. You mention 550hp, but that will depend on engine dyno, setup, etc. For instance, a great many engines claim 520-550hp on an engine dyno, but only roll 380-400rwhp sae. We have never documented a 120-150hp loss through the drivetrain that I can recall. Even unlocked stalled 4l60's have only shown 80-100hp in most of these applications. If you say 550hp, in our estimation that would put you in the 450-480rwhp range which is only common with the "right" combination of parts & attention to detail.
"Rules of thumb" like 2hp/cfm are inaccurate and misleading. Tested with the same fixturing, bench, methodology, etc. there are heads that flow great and only make 1.7hp/cfm @ 28". On the other hand there are others designed with a focus on what actually matters that show 2.4hp/cfm. This has been the case even through a stock unwelded GM LT1 manifold. A properly done port that shows 300cfm at 28"h2o can make in excess of 700hp on the industry standard SF901 & DTS engine dynos. For example, the 215cc TFS head we CNC has proven it can produce in excess of 650 flywheel & 550rwhp SAE on pump fuel with the right setup. Rick's car may be set up well, but the 142mph trap speed NA on 93 octane is what most make note of.
In the end, your money is best spent on the highest quality machinework you can afford. We'd recommend that all of the guys thinking about starting a 383/396 build like this simply set $ aside and do not start buying parts as you can afford to. Save $4-6k for the top-end of the engine, $4-5 for the shortblock, and $3-5 for the misc. items and competent labor. If that is farther than you would like to go, find a stock shortblock in good condition or build a cheap 355. You will outrun ill-conceived strokers more often than not.
Good luck with your project!
We'd recommend that all of the guys thinking about starting a 383/396 build like this simply set $ aside and do not start buying parts as you can afford to. Save $4-6k for the top-end of the engine, $4-5 for the shortblock, and $3-5 for the misc. items and competent labor. If that is farther than you would like to go, find a stock shortblock in good condition or build a cheap 355. You will outrun ill-conceived strokers more often than not
If you have or are building a 383/396 that you intend to make big power with prepare to be out of pocket at least 10-15 large..... end of story....
and match your heads to what your goals are... AI 215's make great power as said, AFR 210's and 227 eliminators or older versions can still make great power (me and tony have em and we're not doing too bad)... Some of the TFS i've seen that are worked are nice.... just match it to YOUR combo. not billy bob down the street on his clapped out LT1 that he told you made 1 zillion hp to the wheels....
That car is extremely well set up. You could put that motor in your car and be in the high 10's just so you know. I'm not knocking it in any way shape or form, but it can be a little misleading for guys who think their cars are going to run those times because Rick Abare does. I believe there is a disclaimer on the site if i'm not mistaken.
It's exactly the same as buying a protein powder with a picture of Dexter Jackson (Mr Olympia for those who don't know), and thinking you are going to end up looking like that. There's a little more to it than what it seems.
It's exactly the same as buying a protein powder with a picture of Dexter Jackson (Mr Olympia for those who don't know), and thinking you are going to end up looking like that. There's a little more to it than what it seems.
There have been others to build cars who run that quick other than AI.
They do good work but if you would of look on the list of the fastest LT1's you would see a breakdown of the basic componets to the motor and the time they are running.
most of the guys on the list have put together an excellent combo. Thats is what I would try and figure out how to do. Taner is a good example of one, as is Joe Overton.
Just based on what I've seen I think a nice 220cc head would work. Dart makes a nice head that I'm thinking about using on a 400+ci LTx I'm hoping to make.
As far as people actually putting their money where their mouth is, yeah right. Lloyd has offered before, but you need two to tango. I have a 355 ready to go, stock crank, 6" h-beams and Ross pistons, no cam/heads or intake sitting in my garage. I've offered before but it fell on deaf ears.
It's not like it will ever settle anything anyway because there are too many "variables". Unless the people who make the products actually set them up there will always be an excuse as to the results. Besides if they knew about the test there is always the chance of a "ringer" setup too.
As far as people actually putting their money where their mouth is, yeah right. Lloyd has offered before, but you need two to tango. I have a 355 ready to go, stock crank, 6" h-beams and Ross pistons, no cam/heads or intake sitting in my garage. I've offered before but it fell on deaf ears.
It's not like it will ever settle anything anyway because there are too many "variables". Unless the people who make the products actually set them up there will always be an excuse as to the results. Besides if they knew about the test there is always the chance of a "ringer" setup too.
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,630
Likes: 28
LMAO! Ok, mr taxi-driver. You get to glassy-eyed looking at your AI stuff. You forget who holds the LT1 record.
8.08 Rick Intrau
You forget who is knocking on his door.
Z8's-Chris Sikora
Guess what they run?
Answer me this question and be totally honest.
Do you REALLY think that someone could purchase an AI 215 TFS head/cam package and put them on the dyno, and then swap the heads off with a set of AFR 210 comps and have the motor lose power? I think you are dreaming if you believe that to be the case. I picked those 2 scenarios because the heads are the nearly the same price. $2495 for the TFS Ai stuff, and well.....I am certain I can get a much cheaper quote on the AFR's if I ask the right places
. That is without even matching a custom cam tailored to the AFR's like the cams that are a big part of the Ai packages.
8.08 Rick Intrau
You forget who is knocking on his door.
Z8's-Chris Sikora
Guess what they run?
Answer me this question and be totally honest.
Do you REALLY think that someone could purchase an AI 215 TFS head/cam package and put them on the dyno, and then swap the heads off with a set of AFR 210 comps and have the motor lose power? I think you are dreaming if you believe that to be the case. I picked those 2 scenarios because the heads are the nearly the same price. $2495 for the TFS Ai stuff, and well.....I am certain I can get a much cheaper quote on the AFR's if I ask the right places
. That is without even matching a custom cam tailored to the AFR's like the cams that are a big part of the Ai packages.
People dont realize that the Abare car has had its hairs split to infinity. Which is what EVERY combo should have done to it.The car is DAMN impressive, but call it what it is. A trailered, stickered up, uncapped race car.
Does anyone think that OutlawZ or Tony Shepherd make any less power?
Does anyone NOT think either of those 2 guys couldnt get DEEP into the nines with weight reduction and there combos set up to run normally aspirated? And run in the same DA Abare runs in? 1000 feet or less most of the time, neg da alot more than most of us, or so I have heard.
I do Agree Ai makes NICE stuff, they really do, As do many other companies on here and all over including Lloyd Elliot. The key is OPTIMIZING that combo of parts. Few have that knowledge and its DAMN expensive to get that knowledege.
96Capricemgr beats on this horse every time one of these threads comes up, but in fact his car runs 11.90(its best) Even if it weighed 3500 he couldnt outrun Javier97z28 with his LE head/cam 355. Weighing 3575 ready to race.
Furthermore Javier97z28(LE 355) runs the same mph(120) with a STALLED AUTO as Speed Demon24(Ai stock bottom end six speed) does.
Wonder what mph Javier's car would run with a six speed? Something to ponder yes/no?
And the ONLY way to figure out who makes the fastest parts is to do a test like HotRod mag did a while back. Build 2 identical engines, same cubes. But "x" combo in one, and "x" combo in the other. Put them in the same car and run them. Swap them at the track over a couple of days.
The dyno can be manipulated, remember that. The slip at the end of the track dont lie.
And no my car is NOT optimized, it was built to be a STREET CAR, a real street cruiser. If I gutted it down to within an inch of its life, put the correct optimized LIGHT converter(mine weighs 43 lbs!) I think I could get in the nines. But coulda shoulda woulda, I dig my mid 10sec pumpgas overdrive streetcar.
Does anyone think that OutlawZ or Tony Shepherd make any less power?
Does anyone NOT think either of those 2 guys couldnt get DEEP into the nines with weight reduction and there combos set up to run normally aspirated? And run in the same DA Abare runs in? 1000 feet or less most of the time, neg da alot more than most of us, or so I have heard.
I do Agree Ai makes NICE stuff, they really do, As do many other companies on here and all over including Lloyd Elliot. The key is OPTIMIZING that combo of parts. Few have that knowledge and its DAMN expensive to get that knowledege.
96Capricemgr beats on this horse every time one of these threads comes up, but in fact his car runs 11.90(its best) Even if it weighed 3500 he couldnt outrun Javier97z28 with his LE head/cam 355. Weighing 3575 ready to race.
Furthermore Javier97z28(LE 355) runs the same mph(120) with a STALLED AUTO as Speed Demon24(Ai stock bottom end six speed) does.
Wonder what mph Javier's car would run with a six speed? Something to ponder yes/no?
And the ONLY way to figure out who makes the fastest parts is to do a test like HotRod mag did a while back. Build 2 identical engines, same cubes. But "x" combo in one, and "x" combo in the other. Put them in the same car and run them. Swap them at the track over a couple of days.
The dyno can be manipulated, remember that. The slip at the end of the track dont lie.
And no my car is NOT optimized, it was built to be a STREET CAR, a real street cruiser. If I gutted it down to within an inch of its life, put the correct optimized LIGHT converter(mine weighs 43 lbs!) I think I could get in the nines. But coulda shoulda woulda, I dig my mid 10sec pumpgas overdrive streetcar.
Last edited by FASTFATBOY; Feb 3, 2009 at 09:08 AM.
10 Second Club
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,630
Likes: 28
People dont realize that the Abare car has had its hairs split to infinity. Which is what EVERY combo should have done to it.The car is DAMN impressive, but call it what it is. A trailered, stickered up, uncapped race car.
Does anyone think that OutlawZ or Tony Shepherd make any less power?
Does anyone NOT think either of those 2 guys couldnt get DEEP into the nines with weight reduction and there combos set up to run normally aspirated? And run in the same DA Abare runs in? 1000 feet or less most of the time, neg da alot more than most of us, or so I have heard.
I do Agree Ai makes NICE stuff, they really do, As do many other companies on here and all over including Lloyd Elliot. The key is OPTIMIZING that combo of parts. Few have that knowledge and its DAMN expensive to get that knowledege.
96Capricemgr beats on this horse every time one of these threads comes up, but in fact his car runs 11.90(its best) Even if it weighed 3500 he couldnt outrun Javier97z28 with his LE head/cam 355. Weighing 3575 ready to race.
Furthermore Javier97z28(LE 355) runs the same mph(120) with a STALLED AUTO as Speed Demon24(Ai stock bottom end six speed) does.
Wonder what mph Javier's car would run with a six speed? Something to ponder yes/no?
And the ONLY way to figure out who makes the fastest parts is to do a test like HotRod mag did a while back. Build 2 identical engines, same cubes. But "x" combo in one, and "x" combo in the other. Put them in the same car and run them. Swap them at the track over a couple of days.
The dyno can be manipulated, remember that. The slip at the end of the track dont lie.
And no my car is NOT optimized, it was built to be a STREET CAR, a real street cruiser. If I gutted it down to within an inch of its life, put the correct optimized LIGHT converter(mine weighs 43 lbs!) I think I could get in the nines. But coulda shoulda woulda, I dig my mid 10sec pumpgas overdrive streetcar.
Does anyone think that OutlawZ or Tony Shepherd make any less power?
Does anyone NOT think either of those 2 guys couldnt get DEEP into the nines with weight reduction and there combos set up to run normally aspirated? And run in the same DA Abare runs in? 1000 feet or less most of the time, neg da alot more than most of us, or so I have heard.
I do Agree Ai makes NICE stuff, they really do, As do many other companies on here and all over including Lloyd Elliot. The key is OPTIMIZING that combo of parts. Few have that knowledge and its DAMN expensive to get that knowledege.
96Capricemgr beats on this horse every time one of these threads comes up, but in fact his car runs 11.90(its best) Even if it weighed 3500 he couldnt outrun Javier97z28 with his LE head/cam 355. Weighing 3575 ready to race.
Furthermore Javier97z28(LE 355) runs the same mph(120) with a STALLED AUTO as Speed Demon24(Ai stock bottom end six speed) does.
Wonder what mph Javier's car would run with a six speed? Something to ponder yes/no?
And the ONLY way to figure out who makes the fastest parts is to do a test like HotRod mag did a while back. Build 2 identical engines, same cubes. But "x" combo in one, and "x" combo in the other. Put them in the same car and run them. Swap them at the track over a couple of days.
The dyno can be manipulated, remember that. The slip at the end of the track dont lie.
And no my car is NOT optimized, it was built to be a STREET CAR, a real street cruiser. If I gutted it down to within an inch of its life, put the correct optimized LIGHT converter(mine weighs 43 lbs!) I think I could get in the nines. But coulda shoulda woulda, I dig my mid 10sec pumpgas overdrive streetcar.
I love Abare's car don't get me wrong, but I liken it to a Stock Eliminator car that just boggles the mind when you see it doing soooo much with what it has. That car gets every last ounce of power to the ground as efficiently as possible. To say anyone with that heads/cam package will see ET results even close to that is simply stupid.
How many other AI cars are running single digits? I'm not hating, i'm just wondering, cause i've never heard of any other than Rick's car.
Most are running 11's with a few dipping into the 10's.
The car is DAMN impressive, but call it what it is. A trailered, stickered up, uncapped race car.
Furthermore Javier97z28(LE 355) runs the same mph(120) with a STALLED AUTO as Speed Demon24(Ai stock bottom end six speed) does.
Wonder what mph Javier's car would run with a six speed? Something to ponder yes/no?
Wonder what mph Javier's car would run with a six speed? Something to ponder yes/no?
10 Second Club
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,630
Likes: 28
How do you figure that?? It has stock type suspension, 9" tires, it weighs 3400lbs. Just because it has a lot of stickers you make it out to be a tube chassis 2300lb race car. The stickers are for contingency. Who would pass up contingency money? Most people racing every weekend couldn't afford too.
I have to assume that you guys do not realize the comparison you are making. You are comparing a naturally aspirated pump fuel 383 powered car to power adder setups with 300-500hp worth of n2o or 1600hp capable large frame turbos. Power is easy to make with money and the right people involved. All credit should go to Rick. He has worked very hard to achieve what he has. To say that we are flattered to see Rick's hard work compared to those guys is an understatement. Those are very impressive setups
We do not feel the DJ is the measure of performance. However, if the results are qualified they can be enlightening. For example, if a 250cc headed 396 with a super vic makes the same power as a 383 with 30cc less cylinder head the "equal" performance indicated by the dyno is not so in real life. For reference, here is Rick's dyno sheet. The heads are 100% cnc'd, no hand-work, as we sell them & the manifold has minor blending work done to it. The engine has only been run on pump fuel thus far, so we do not know if the racier fuels will show gains at this point.
What do you guys think the car would run with 300-400hp worth of n2o poured through it? It runs 9.5 @ 142 now with timing pulled out in positive DA.
In our opinion, even more important than performance is the quality and consistency of the work. In that regard, you will be hard pressed to find anything comparable. The highest end CNC equipment made, software, and tooling, combined with a great deal of investment in LT R&D, and 100% in-house manufacturing have completely set us apart from most anything else available. Our street heads are machined on the same equipment and to the same tolerances as the contract work we do for professionals. No hand-ported head is going to compare cylinder to cylinder with even a properly programmed cheap CNC machine, much less the highest end equipment with properly managed tooling. To attempt to really compare the two is an exercise in futility as the non-cnc'd product will be different every time.
Dwayne may come off poorly in text, but the fact is that the vast majority of the time he is correct. Online, if you find yourself bothered by a post you would be wise to step back and determine is it a problem with the message or the text with which it was conveyed. The a/b comparisons have been done, but when the results were less than palatable to the majority, they were dismissed or shouted down. For every one that has been willing to talk about it online, there are 4 or 5 who are just happy their setup works for them & do not post. Like many of our customers, Dwayne speaks from experience. As far as we are aware, his goal is to attempt to point out mistakes he himself made over the years. It is on the individual to step back from all of the posts and attempt to logically determine who is correct and has data to back their assertions vs. "if it had.. it would run.."
The performance of our product has been well documented online and on our website. One could certainly say "if" "Z" racer had "X" part it would run commensurate times with "Y" racer. On the other hand, we could also assert that "if" "Z" racer had our complete top-end system it would alleviate their performance deficit. Fatboy is correct in that the track doesn't lie. Do your research. You need not purchase based on supposition. The data is readily available. Good luck with your projects
We do not feel the DJ is the measure of performance. However, if the results are qualified they can be enlightening. For example, if a 250cc headed 396 with a super vic makes the same power as a 383 with 30cc less cylinder head the "equal" performance indicated by the dyno is not so in real life. For reference, here is Rick's dyno sheet. The heads are 100% cnc'd, no hand-work, as we sell them & the manifold has minor blending work done to it. The engine has only been run on pump fuel thus far, so we do not know if the racier fuels will show gains at this point.
What do you guys think the car would run with 300-400hp worth of n2o poured through it? It runs 9.5 @ 142 now with timing pulled out in positive DA.
In our opinion, even more important than performance is the quality and consistency of the work. In that regard, you will be hard pressed to find anything comparable. The highest end CNC equipment made, software, and tooling, combined with a great deal of investment in LT R&D, and 100% in-house manufacturing have completely set us apart from most anything else available. Our street heads are machined on the same equipment and to the same tolerances as the contract work we do for professionals. No hand-ported head is going to compare cylinder to cylinder with even a properly programmed cheap CNC machine, much less the highest end equipment with properly managed tooling. To attempt to really compare the two is an exercise in futility as the non-cnc'd product will be different every time.
Dwayne may come off poorly in text, but the fact is that the vast majority of the time he is correct. Online, if you find yourself bothered by a post you would be wise to step back and determine is it a problem with the message or the text with which it was conveyed. The a/b comparisons have been done, but when the results were less than palatable to the majority, they were dismissed or shouted down. For every one that has been willing to talk about it online, there are 4 or 5 who are just happy their setup works for them & do not post. Like many of our customers, Dwayne speaks from experience. As far as we are aware, his goal is to attempt to point out mistakes he himself made over the years. It is on the individual to step back from all of the posts and attempt to logically determine who is correct and has data to back their assertions vs. "if it had.. it would run.."
The performance of our product has been well documented online and on our website. One could certainly say "if" "Z" racer had "X" part it would run commensurate times with "Y" racer. On the other hand, we could also assert that "if" "Z" racer had our complete top-end system it would alleviate their performance deficit. Fatboy is correct in that the track doesn't lie. Do your research. You need not purchase based on supposition. The data is readily available. Good luck with your projects
Rick is running a long-block that we built for R&D. The service interval is 15-20k miles depending on whether or not it is road raced, cruised, or drag raced. That is longer than many of the HR setups survive.
Take Care
You need to look into things before you make posts like that. You clearly don't even know about the motor he is running. Here is a quote directly from the AI web site
Nothing that peaks at 7,000 rpm is going to eat valve springs. What suggests that it would overheat? It is a street/strip motor. Not a race motor. Why all the hate? I believe some of you just don't like them because they are fast??
Ai 383R Street/Strip Engine - 9.5's at 142mph NA on 93 octane! - Rick's old 383 was a little long in the tooth after having made thousands of passes under our CNC ported GM LT1's and becoming the fastest NA GM LT1 Head/Intake F-body. To continue to utilize Rick's ability to collect real world data we chose to put a new offering through the wringer as a weekly racer - one of our Ai 383R LT1 longblocks. This is truly a Street/Strip engine. To ensure streetability it is only 11.7:1 static compression. Paired with a moderate cam that exhibits excellent drivability and peaks at only 7000rpm it'll sit in traffic or decimate tires with over 530rwhp on tap. Using our 215cc CNC'd TFS LT1 heads & LT1 Pro-Ram the car has run consistent 9.6's all summer in average 1400-2200ft DA.
However, once the weather dipped below 1000ft DA the additional power has completely upset Rick's finely adjusted setup. On pump fuel with 10deg of timing pulled out the car is out of control - breaking wheelie bars, bending suspension mounts, and being unruly in general.
However, once the weather dipped below 1000ft DA the additional power has completely upset Rick's finely adjusted setup. On pump fuel with 10deg of timing pulled out the car is out of control - breaking wheelie bars, bending suspension mounts, and being unruly in general.
People dont realize that the Abare car has had its hairs split to infinity. Which is what EVERY combo should have done to it.The car is DAMN impressive, but call it what it is. A trailered, stickered up, uncapped race car.
Does anyone think that OutlawZ or Tony Shepherd make any less power?
Does anyone NOT think either of those 2 guys couldnt get DEEP into the nines with weight reduction and there combos set up to run normally aspirated? And run in the same DA Abare runs in? 1000 feet or less most of the time, neg da alot more than most of us, or so I have heard.
I do Agree Ai makes NICE stuff, they really do, As do many other companies on here and all over including Lloyd Elliot. The key is OPTIMIZING that combo of parts. Few have that knowledge and its DAMN expensive to get that knowledege.
96Capricemgr beats on this horse every time one of these threads comes up, but in fact his car runs 11.90(its best) Even if it weighed 3500 he couldnt outrun Javier97z28 with his LE head/cam 355. Weighing 3575 ready to race.
Furthermore Javier97z28(LE 355) runs the same mph(120) with a STALLED AUTO as Speed Demon24(Ai stock bottom end six speed) does.
Wonder what mph Javier's car would run with a six speed? Something to ponder yes/no?
And the ONLY way to figure out who makes the fastest parts is to do a test like HotRod mag did a while back. Build 2 identical engines, same cubes. But "x" combo in one, and "x" combo in the other. Put them in the same car and run them. Swap them at the track over a couple of days.
The dyno can be manipulated, remember that. The slip at the end of the track dont lie.
And no my car is NOT optimized, it was built to be a STREET CAR, a real street cruiser. If I gutted it down to within an inch of its life, put the correct optimized LIGHT converter(mine weighs 43 lbs!) I think I could get in the nines. But coulda shoulda woulda, I dig my mid 10sec pumpgas overdrive streetcar.
Does anyone think that OutlawZ or Tony Shepherd make any less power?
Does anyone NOT think either of those 2 guys couldnt get DEEP into the nines with weight reduction and there combos set up to run normally aspirated? And run in the same DA Abare runs in? 1000 feet or less most of the time, neg da alot more than most of us, or so I have heard.
I do Agree Ai makes NICE stuff, they really do, As do many other companies on here and all over including Lloyd Elliot. The key is OPTIMIZING that combo of parts. Few have that knowledge and its DAMN expensive to get that knowledege.
96Capricemgr beats on this horse every time one of these threads comes up, but in fact his car runs 11.90(its best) Even if it weighed 3500 he couldnt outrun Javier97z28 with his LE head/cam 355. Weighing 3575 ready to race.
Furthermore Javier97z28(LE 355) runs the same mph(120) with a STALLED AUTO as Speed Demon24(Ai stock bottom end six speed) does.
Wonder what mph Javier's car would run with a six speed? Something to ponder yes/no?
And the ONLY way to figure out who makes the fastest parts is to do a test like HotRod mag did a while back. Build 2 identical engines, same cubes. But "x" combo in one, and "x" combo in the other. Put them in the same car and run them. Swap them at the track over a couple of days.
The dyno can be manipulated, remember that. The slip at the end of the track dont lie.
And no my car is NOT optimized, it was built to be a STREET CAR, a real street cruiser. If I gutted it down to within an inch of its life, put the correct optimized LIGHT converter(mine weighs 43 lbs!) I think I could get in the nines. But coulda shoulda woulda, I dig my mid 10sec pumpgas overdrive streetcar.
Couldn't agree more!
I love Abare's car don't get me wrong, but I liken it to a Stock Eliminator car that just boggles the mind when you see it doing soooo much with what it has. That car gets every last ounce of power to the ground as efficiently as possible. To say anyone with that heads/cam package will see ET results even close to that is simply stupid.
How many other AI cars are running single digits? I'm not hating, i'm just wondering, cause i've never heard of any other than Rick's car.
Most are running 11's with a few dipping into the 10's.
I love Abare's car don't get me wrong, but I liken it to a Stock Eliminator car that just boggles the mind when you see it doing soooo much with what it has. That car gets every last ounce of power to the ground as efficiently as possible. To say anyone with that heads/cam package will see ET results even close to that is simply stupid.
How many other AI cars are running single digits? I'm not hating, i'm just wondering, cause i've never heard of any other than Rick's car.
Most are running 11's with a few dipping into the 10's.
Phil can say what he wants, its a race car. Period, It might can be "driven" on the street. But its a racecar. Stock suspension, pumpgas means nothing. DRIVE it on the street. You can have an old Pro Mod car with a pumpgas 706 and a 4L80E, if you can DRIVE it, its a streetcar.
Get Phils car up on the interstate and cruise 60 miles to the track with me, run it and drive it home 60 miles, running the speed limit. SHOW me its a street/strip car. We all know whats up there.
Again, call Ricks car what it is. Its a racecar, yes its quick. But its a racecar.
And Phil, how much cam is in that car.....will it live on the STREET for 10,000 miles? My cam setup already has 6500 miles on it with no problems(solid roller) Its doing fine. I got big heads and a moderate cam, bigger the heads the less cam you need.
A street/strip car is one you DRIVE on the street and race. Not sits on a trailer all week, gets drug to the track unloads, runs a good number on pumpgas, gets loaded back up, drug home and sits on a trailer all week. Or unloaded to get put in the shop to work on. Thats a RACE car.
There are alot more pumpgas 9 second combos out there than you think...
See here
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=79904
10 Second Club
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,630
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I swear to god, I spit pop out of my mouth. That right there is the understatement of the decade.
a/b? What exactly? I'd like to see a TFS Ai 215 go head to head with a Comp CNC AFR 210. Please show the results, thanks. I think they would be neck and neck, and I know which one is cheaper and has more meat for future porting 
Wrong. His goal is to re-hash his same story over and over and over. He puts down everything that isn't AI. His goal is for everyone to believe that his beloved Impala forum is the end all be all of LT1 supremacy.
but the fact is that the vast majority of the time he is correct. Online, if you find yourself bothered by a post you would be wise to step back and determine is it a problem with the message or the text with which it was conveyed. The a/b comparisons have been done, but when the results were less than palatable to the majority,
they were dismissed or shouted down. For every one that has been willing to talk about it online, there are 4 or 5 who are just happy their setup works for them & do not post. Like many of our customers, Dwayne speaks from experience. As far as we are aware, his goal is to attempt to point out mistakes he himself made over the years.
It is on the individual to step back from all of the posts and attempt to logically determine who is correct and has data to back their assertions vs. "if it had.. it would run.."
The performance of our product has been well documented online and on our website. One could certainly say "if" "Z" racer had "X" part it would run commensurate times with "Y" racer. On the other hand, we could also assert that "if" "Z" racer had our complete top-end system it would alleviate their performance deficit. Fatboy is correct in that the track doesn't lie. Do your research. You need not purchase based on supposition. The data is readily available. Good luck with your projects
The performance of our product has been well documented online and on our website. One could certainly say "if" "Z" racer had "X" part it would run commensurate times with "Y" racer. On the other hand, we could also assert that "if" "Z" racer had our complete top-end system it would alleviate their performance deficit. Fatboy is correct in that the track doesn't lie. Do your research. You need not purchase based on supposition. The data is readily available. Good luck with your projects
I have said it a million times, and will say it a million more times.
MPH is an indication of HORESPOWER, ET is an indication of USING that horsepower.
Hp pushing a given weight=MPH.
So with a little thought, not knowing the weight of both cars, IF you both ran in comparible DA's. Javier is making as much RWHP through a stalled auto and a 9 inch as you are making with a six speed and a stock rear. As trap speed indicates.