I've seen it.



See the bold text? LMAO......Even hear of a stock eliminator cam? They run stock lift and duration, but they open the valves at extremely high rates. They wipe out valve springs and are extremely hard on components. Don't believe me? Ever hear of the Jegs Engine Masters Challenge? Those guys are run from 2500rpm to 6500rpm nothing more. The top motors, after a tear down all show signs of camshaft wear. When they allowed roller cams years ago, they had a lot of roller lifter failures due to the aggresive nature with which they lift at.

I like Rick Abares car. When did I ever say I didn't like it? It runs incredible, period.

 

Given that you agree with that why is you car down 16mph over Rick's setup that is only 150lbs lighter?

After all "Hp pushing a given weight=MPH"

 

Peaking at 7000 has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with valvespring life. NOTHING! 8500 maybe.

The cams ramp speed and profile have EVERYTHING to do with killing valvesprings. You could build a cam to peak at 6500 that would destroy springs. A stock eliminator car is a good example here.

I dont hate Rick's car, I have said MANY times its impressive. But call it what it is, a racecar.

 

Lets have FASTFATBOY take his car to the track...oh...about 40-50 more times and have some chances to dial it in, tweak the tune, move some weight around, adjust the camber, oh wait, that's right......

IT'S A ******* STREET CAR

Let's see a racecar follow him through rush-hour traffic on the way to the track.

 

Actually he is 200lbs lighter. Or so its STATED he is 3400lbs.

As said in a previous post, my car is a STREETCAR, again you are comparing apples to oranges.

A better question would be is why am I heavier than you, make almost the same rwhp(unlocked is 441) but run 6 mph more? We are both streetcars right?

 

What exactly in your setup is handicapping you that much over his? You keep crying that his is a race car and yours is a street car, but you have never mentioned what differences cause such a huge variance in track times.

Out of all people I would expect you to know that a stalled auto will out MPH a 6-speed that makes the same #'s due to more average power with all other things being equal. If I was you I would be more concerned why you only have 6mph over my setup.

 

WHAT!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Since when do stalled auto's out-mph 6-speeds? You know that auto's are literally slipping the whole way down the track don't you?

 

Man I gotta tell yam you are on some GOOD STUFF!

A stalled auto will out MPH a stick car? I dont even lock my converter in the back 1/2 of the track!!

AGAIN, RWHP pushing a given weight=trap speed PERIOID, the only vaiable is density altitude. If you get even moderate traction the mph will be "true".

WHat makes my car NOT a racecar? Well lets see here....

1. 4L60E with a 43lb! lock up torque converter.
2. Moderate 4.11 gears with a 28 inch tall tire.
3. 3600 lbs
4. Stock electonics AND optispark
5. FULL exhaust system to the rear bumper
6. 9 inch rear with ALL steel internals and case WITH a Detroit locker
7. Full interior with heater, A/C box still in car
8. Big heavy *** radiator over the nose of the car.
9. Stock brakes.
10. Moderate camshaft.

How could I get in the 9's and pick up 8-10 mph?
1. Gut the car to 3300 raceweight
2. Install a turbo 400 with a brake
3. Aerospace brakes
4. Remove exhaust
5. Bigger camshaft
6. BS3 engine management
7. Aluminum center section, spool, lightened 4.56 or bigger gear.
8. Stock Radiator
9. Aluminum seat(s)
10. slicks


Break it down enough fer ya? WHo knows how fast I could go, we will never know. I want a streetcar.

 

I don't see Fatboy putting down AI anywhere. They make good stuff, everyone knows they make competitive stuff... but they aren't the only company out there making competition parts..... If Tony or I wanted to run straight up naturally aspirated I wouldn't have a cam with a 114.5 lobe sep..... Nor would I have 3.89 gears...... I'd have 4.56's and probably a 106 or 108 lobe sep NA cam.... I'd probably have a powerglide and save another 50lbs from my van-size TH400.... Setup possibilities are indefinite.... Going back and forth about what to run and what not to run will never end..... What it has and will always come down to is what is best for YOUR setup and what can YOU afford???? You want 215 AI heads and you can buy em... go ahead.... but know others have also run great times and power without those heads..... and some have run great times and power with em.... get what you feel comfortable with when it comes to cost and trusting the company to stand behind what they sell... AI has gotten on here to back their product which I think is great....

Hell the only way it's going to be settled is get a test mule LT1 motor, put LE and AI heads on it that are similarly prepped with a similar intake and run em back to back....

Sounds like someone should be calling GMHTP right now... Enquiring minds wanna know....

 

Lol at this whole thread.

Buy what makes you happy, there is always someone faster. The smart people just copy the fast ones.

 

I love these debates, too...Pick who you like and go with them...Each company has something to offer. If I were doing a 396 I'd look into Eric Bradby (E.B. Porting) He's yet another source for go fast stuff. I've seen great track results from Ai, too. I put zero faith in dyno numbers as they are so easily manipulated and stalled autos like mine always skew the results...I make 375 rwhp on a Mustang dyno and trap 121 and some change at over 3600 lbs with A/C, stock ported intake, stock interior (!backseat)...with a 383 and a weenie 226/234 cam...If you were to pop my hood all you'd see is a stock looking LT1 with headers...

Good luck with your build!

--Alan

 

Half those things are true for his car as well so you might want to do a little more research. Your car has more in common with Abare's than mine does with Javier's so I fail to see how you think you can compare my car to his, but not yours to Abare's.


And re-read what I posted. A stalled auto that makes the same dyno #'s will out trap a 6-speed with the same dyno #'s due to more average power and the auto is putting the power down all the time including the shifts. I didn't say anything about the same combo trapping the same with both transmissions due to too many variables.

 

Good stuff guys...lots of very interesting opinions/facts stated here.

 

You said 1/2, which half of the 10 things that make my car a REAL streetcar does Rick have on his car? Which 5?

RWHP IS RWHP, weight is weight. We should trap the same, why dont we?

And no an auto will not out trap stick shift with the same rwhp and weight. The same rwhp pushing the same weight in the same DA should MPH the same regardless of transmission, again why dont we MPH the same?

The auto should ET better because it hooks better, not MPH better. But we all know when you spin you MPH better, we all also know that if you hook harder it hurts MPH. I thought we all knew that?

ANd how in the hell does a stalled auto have more average power than a stick car? You dyno the car in whichever gear is 1to1, 4th for you, 3rd for me. You have less weight on the back of the crank and a 10 bolt rear, I got a 43lb converter(with no fluid) a 9 inch read with a damn Detroit locker and a steel driveshaft!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am turning a TON of rotational weight.


You have an extra gear to keep the car in the sweet spot of the curve, my 1-2 gear drop is HUGE.

 

My 3.73's keep me between 5000-5800 from the 1/8th - 1/4. I don't see how that is keeping me in my sweat spot.

Your converter should keep you in the power band the whole run. If it doesn't then it is the incorrect stall for your combo. Take a look at the dyno chart Phil posted, on that car he will be making 550rwhp the whole run, no climbing curves, lifting off the gas to shift, ect. I'm sure you also have 1/2 the rotating mass I do just from my wheel/tire combo along with my brakes.

Like I said in my last post that you haven't address your car has more in common with Rick's than mine does with Javier's, but according to you your setup can't be compared to Rick's but mine can be compared to Javier's. A bit hypocritical don't you think? There's plenty of stalled auto Ai cars out there that are actually setup for the drag strip that you can compare to other cars if you do the research. Here's an example of what a car with my setup does with the few extra power mods and a chassis setup for the drag strip runs. https://ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-m...na-9s-n2o.html

Anyway I'm done arguing on the subject. It's kind of hard to argue with someone who only states the facts in his favor and ignores the rest of the data.

 

Alright backing up fatboy on this trap speed vs weight vs transmission debate i'll use my old setup I used to have since I had BOTH a T56 and a TH400 with the same car/engine after I did a tranny swap and I have dyno results before and after and track results before and after....all of it was done with zero changes to the motor.. only changes to stuff behind the motor related to the tranny...

355, stock crank, 6" rods, SRP pistons, ported stock castings, ported intake, T56, stock torque arm, stock d-shaft, Ford 9" rear, 236/242 hydro roller cam, RR's, long tubes and 4" mufflex....

car dynoed 422 RWHP with the T56 and 394 RWTQ naturally aspirated....

car ran 11.8@119 mph roughly 3550 lb curbweight.....


swapped to TH400, 4000 stall, Denny's 3" steel nitrous shaft, Spohn torque arm with crossmember relocation....

Redynoed car and dynoed 375 RWHP and 387RWTQ....

Car ran 11.6@117 with 26" slick and 3.89 gears..... so lost 2 mph but picked up 2 tenths just from being able to finally launch like it should.....

So to anyone listening if you swap to an Th400 from a T56 you will lose roughly 50hp and probably 2 mph in the 1/4 roughly....

But your car will most likely be 2-3 tenths faster depending on setup, gearing, curbweight, driving style, etc..... I'm thinking 1 tenth is easily from launch, and 1 tenth is from not having to lift when you shift like in a T56..... If you lift shift when you drive your stick you will most likely pick up more than 2 tenths.... if you powershift then 2-3 tenths is normal....

So whoever says you won't lose MPH is wrong.... The stick will be the FASTER car trapspeed wise but the auto will finish the race 1st....

 

Meow meow.

 

i'm running stage 3 GTP LT1 heads

 

Do you have any idea if Craig is still around anywhere? I really wish he could get back into business the way he was back in the 90's.
He is a good dude.

 

Thats not as entirely correct as you like to make it seem. A properly set up transmission/converter combo will run the same if not better mph as a t-56. Going to a power zapping overkill th400 will kill power and possibly the mph, especially when running a shitbox converter. But when running a 4l60, that argument is severely lessened.