What heads to use on 396 stroker?
02-03-2009, 10:40 AM
#41
I like Rick Abares car. When did I ever say I didn't like it? It runs incredible, period.
02-03-2009, 10:41 AM
#42
I have said it a million times, and will say it a million more times.
MPH is an indication of HORESPOWER, ET is an indication of USING that horsepower.
Hp pushing a given weight=MPH.
So with a little thought, not knowing the weight of both cars, IF you both ran in comparible DA's. Javier is making as much RWHP through a stalled auto and a 9 inch as you are making with a six speed and a stock rear. As trap speed indicates.
MPH is an indication of HORESPOWER, ET is an indication of USING that horsepower.
Hp pushing a given weight=MPH.
So with a little thought, not knowing the weight of both cars, IF you both ran in comparible DA's. Javier is making as much RWHP through a stalled auto and a 9 inch as you are making with a six speed and a stock rear. As trap speed indicates.
After all "Hp pushing a given weight=MPH"
02-03-2009, 10:44 AM
#43
You need to look into things before you make posts like that. You clearly don't even know about the motor he is running. Here is a quote directly from the AI web site
Nothing that peaks at 7,000 rpm is going to eat valve springs. What suggests that it would overheat? It is a street/strip motor. Not a race motor. Why all the hate? I believe some of you just don't like them because they are fast??
Nothing that peaks at 7,000 rpm is going to eat valve springs. What suggests that it would overheat? It is a street/strip motor. Not a race motor. Why all the hate? I believe some of you just don't like them because they are fast??
Peaking at 7000 has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with valvespring life. NOTHING! 8500 maybe.
The cams ramp speed and profile have EVERYTHING to do with killing valvesprings. You could build a cam to peak at 6500 that would destroy springs. A stock eliminator car is a good example here.
I dont hate Rick's car, I have said MANY times its impressive. But call it what it is, a racecar.
02-03-2009, 10:53 AM
#44
IT'S A ******* STREET CAR
Let's see a racecar follow him through rush-hour traffic on the way to the track.
02-03-2009, 10:54 AM
#45
Actually he is 200lbs lighter. Or so its STATED he is 3400lbs.
As said in a previous post, my car is a STREETCAR, again you are comparing apples to oranges.
A better question would be is why am I heavier than you, make almost the same rwhp(unlocked is 441) but run 6 mph more? We are both streetcars right?
Last edited by FASTFATBOY; 02-03-2009 at 11:49 AM.
02-03-2009, 11:00 AM
#46
Actually he is 200lbs lighter. Or so its STATED he is 3400lbs.
As said in a previous post, my car is a STREECAR, again you are comparing apples to oranges.
A better question would be is why am I heavier than you, make almost the same rwhp(unlocked is 441) but run 6 mph more? We are both streetcars right?
As said in a previous post, my car is a STREECAR, again you are comparing apples to oranges.
A better question would be is why am I heavier than you, make almost the same rwhp(unlocked is 441) but run 6 mph more? We are both streetcars right?
Out of all people I would expect you to know that a stalled auto will out MPH a 6-speed that makes the same #'s due to more average power with all other things being equal. If I was you I would be more concerned why you only have 6mph over my setup.
02-03-2009, 11:06 AM
#47
Since when do stalled auto's out-mph 6-speeds? You know that auto's are literally slipping the whole way down the track don't you?
02-03-2009, 11:15 AM
#48
What exactly in your setup is handicapping you that much over his? You keep crying that his is a race car and yours is a street car, but you have never mentioned what differences cause such a huge variance in track times.
Out of all people I would expect you to know that a stalled auto will out MPH a 6-speed that makes the same #'s due to more average power with all other things being equal. If I was you I would be more concerned why you only have 6mph over my setup.
Out of all people I would expect you to know that a stalled auto will out MPH a 6-speed that makes the same #'s due to more average power with all other things being equal. If I was you I would be more concerned why you only have 6mph over my setup.
Man I gotta tell yam you are on some GOOD STUFF!
A stalled auto will out MPH a stick car? I dont even lock my converter in the back 1/2 of the track!!
AGAIN, RWHP pushing a given weight=trap speed PERIOID, the only vaiable is density altitude. If you get even moderate traction the mph will be "true".
WHat makes my car NOT a racecar? Well lets see here....
1. 4L60E with a 43lb! lock up torque converter.
2. Moderate 4.11 gears with a 28 inch tall tire.
3. 3600 lbs
4. Stock electonics AND optispark
5. FULL exhaust system to the rear bumper
6. 9 inch rear with ALL steel internals and case WITH a Detroit locker
7. Full interior with heater, A/C box still in car
8. Big heavy *** radiator over the nose of the car.
9. Stock brakes.
10. Moderate camshaft.
How could I get in the 9's and pick up 8-10 mph?
1. Gut the car to 3300 raceweight
2. Install a turbo 400 with a brake
3. Aerospace brakes
4. Remove exhaust
5. Bigger camshaft
6. BS3 engine management
7. Aluminum center section, spool, lightened 4.56 or bigger gear.
8. Stock Radiator
9. Aluminum seat(s)
10. slicks
Break it down enough fer ya? WHo knows how fast I could go, we will never know. I want a streetcar.
02-03-2009, 11:30 AM
#49
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People dont realize that the Abare car has had its hairs split to infinity. Which is what EVERY combo should have done to it.The car is DAMN impressive, but call it what it is. A trailered, stickered up, uncapped race car.
Does anyone think that OutlawZ or Tony Shepherd make any less power?
Does anyone NOT think either of those 2 guys couldnt get DEEP into the nines with weight reduction and there combos set up to run normally aspirated? And run in the same DA Abare runs in? 1000 feet or less most of the time, neg da alot more than most of us, or so I have heard.
I do Agree Ai makes NICE stuff, they really do, As do many other companies on here and all over including Lloyd Elliot. The key is OPTIMIZING that combo of parts. Few have that knowledge and its DAMN expensive to get that knowledege.
Does anyone think that OutlawZ or Tony Shepherd make any less power?
Does anyone NOT think either of those 2 guys couldnt get DEEP into the nines with weight reduction and there combos set up to run normally aspirated? And run in the same DA Abare runs in? 1000 feet or less most of the time, neg da alot more than most of us, or so I have heard.
I do Agree Ai makes NICE stuff, they really do, As do many other companies on here and all over including Lloyd Elliot. The key is OPTIMIZING that combo of parts. Few have that knowledge and its DAMN expensive to get that knowledege.
Hell the only way it's going to be settled is get a test mule LT1 motor, put LE and AI heads on it that are similarly prepped with a similar intake and run em back to back....
Sounds like someone should be calling GMHTP right now... Enquiring minds wanna know....
02-03-2009, 12:05 PM
#51
I love these debates, too...Pick who you like and go with them...Each company has something to offer. If I were doing a 396 I'd look into Eric Bradby (E.B. Porting) He's yet another source for go fast stuff. I've seen great track results from Ai, too. I put zero faith in dyno numbers as they are so easily manipulated and stalled autos like mine always skew the results...I make 375 rwhp on a Mustang dyno and trap 121 and some change at over 3600 lbs with A/C, stock ported intake, stock interior (!backseat)...with a 383 and a weenie 226/234 cam...If you were to pop my hood all you'd see is a stock looking LT1 with headers...
Good luck with your build!
--Alan
Good luck with your build!
--Alan
02-03-2009, 12:09 PM
#52
Man I gotta tell yam you are on some GOOD STUFF!
A stalled auto will out MPH a stick car? I dont even lock my converter in the back 1/2 of the track!!
AGAIN, RWHP pushing a given weight=trap speed PERIOID, the only vaiable is density altitude. If you get even moderate traction the mph will be "true".
WHat makes my car NOT a racecar? Well lets see here....
1. 4L60E with a 43lb! lock up torque converter.
2. Moderate 4.11 gears with a 28 inch tall tire.
3. 3600 lbs
4. Stock electonics AND optispark
5. FULL exhaust system to the rear bumper
6. 9 inch rear with ALL steel internals and case WITH a Detroit locker
7. Full interior with heater, A/C box still in car
8. Big heavy *** radiator over the nose of the car.
9. Stock brakes.
10. Moderate camshaft.
How could I get in the 9's and pick up 8-10 mph?
1. Gut the car to 3300 raceweight
2. Install a turbo 400 with a brake
3. Aerospace brakes
4. Remove exhaust
5. Bigger camshaft
6. BS3 engine management
7. Aluminum center section, spool, lightened 4.56 or bigger gear.
8. Stock Radiator
9. Aluminum seat(s)
10. slicks
Break it down enough fer ya? WHo knows how fast I could go, we will never know. I want a streetcar.
A stalled auto will out MPH a stick car? I dont even lock my converter in the back 1/2 of the track!!
AGAIN, RWHP pushing a given weight=trap speed PERIOID, the only vaiable is density altitude. If you get even moderate traction the mph will be "true".
WHat makes my car NOT a racecar? Well lets see here....
1. 4L60E with a 43lb! lock up torque converter.
2. Moderate 4.11 gears with a 28 inch tall tire.
3. 3600 lbs
4. Stock electonics AND optispark
5. FULL exhaust system to the rear bumper
6. 9 inch rear with ALL steel internals and case WITH a Detroit locker
7. Full interior with heater, A/C box still in car
8. Big heavy *** radiator over the nose of the car.
9. Stock brakes.
10. Moderate camshaft.
How could I get in the 9's and pick up 8-10 mph?
1. Gut the car to 3300 raceweight
2. Install a turbo 400 with a brake
3. Aerospace brakes
4. Remove exhaust
5. Bigger camshaft
6. BS3 engine management
7. Aluminum center section, spool, lightened 4.56 or bigger gear.
8. Stock Radiator
9. Aluminum seat(s)
10. slicks
Break it down enough fer ya? WHo knows how fast I could go, we will never know. I want a streetcar.
And re-read what I posted. A stalled auto that makes the same dyno #'s will out trap a 6-speed with the same dyno #'s due to more average power and the auto is putting the power down all the time including the shifts. I didn't say anything about the same combo trapping the same with both transmissions due to too many variables.
02-03-2009, 01:29 PM
#54
Half those things are true for his car as well so you might want to do a little more research. Your car has more in common with Abare's than mine does with Javier's so I fail to see how you think you can compare my car to his, but not yours to Abare's.
And re-read what I posted. A stalled auto that makes the same dyno #'s will out trap a 6-speed with the same dyno #'s due to more average power and the auto is putting the power down all the time including the shifts. I didn't say anything about the same combo trapping the same with both transmissions due to too many variables.
And re-read what I posted. A stalled auto that makes the same dyno #'s will out trap a 6-speed with the same dyno #'s due to more average power and the auto is putting the power down all the time including the shifts. I didn't say anything about the same combo trapping the same with both transmissions due to too many variables.
RWHP IS RWHP, weight is weight. We should trap the same, why dont we?
And no an auto will not out trap stick shift with the same rwhp and weight. The same rwhp pushing the same weight in the same DA should MPH the same regardless of transmission, again why dont we MPH the same?
The auto should ET better because it hooks better, not MPH better. But we all know when you spin you MPH better, we all also know that if you hook harder it hurts MPH. I thought we all knew that?
ANd how in the hell does a stalled auto have more average power than a stick car? You dyno the car in whichever gear is 1to1, 4th for you, 3rd for me. You have less weight on the back of the crank and a 10 bolt rear, I got a 43lb converter(with no fluid) a 9 inch read with a damn Detroit locker and a steel driveshaft!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am turning a TON of rotational weight.
You have an extra gear to keep the car in the sweet spot of the curve, my 1-2 gear drop is HUGE.
Last edited by FASTFATBOY; 02-03-2009 at 01:34 PM.
02-03-2009, 03:28 PM
#55
You said 1/2, which half of the 10 things that make my car a REAL streetcar does Rick have on his car? Which 5?
RWHP IS RWHP, weight is weight. We should trap the same, why dont we?
And no an auto will not out trap stick shift with the same rwhp and weight. The same rwhp pushing the same weight in the same DA should MPH the same regardless of transmission, again why dont we MPH the same?
The auto should ET better because it hooks better, not MPH better. But we all know when you spin you MPH better, we all also know that if you hook harder it hurts MPH. I thought we all knew that?
ANd how in the hell does a stalled auto have more average power than a stick car? You dyno the car in whichever gear is 1to1, 4th for you, 3rd for me. You have less weight on the back of the crank and a 10 bolt rear, I got a 43lb converter(with no fluid) a 9 inch read with a damn Detroit locker and a steel driveshaft!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am turning a TON of rotational weight.
You have an extra gear to keep the car in the sweet spot of the curve, my 1-2 gear drop is HUGE.
RWHP IS RWHP, weight is weight. We should trap the same, why dont we?
And no an auto will not out trap stick shift with the same rwhp and weight. The same rwhp pushing the same weight in the same DA should MPH the same regardless of transmission, again why dont we MPH the same?
The auto should ET better because it hooks better, not MPH better. But we all know when you spin you MPH better, we all also know that if you hook harder it hurts MPH. I thought we all knew that?
ANd how in the hell does a stalled auto have more average power than a stick car? You dyno the car in whichever gear is 1to1, 4th for you, 3rd for me. You have less weight on the back of the crank and a 10 bolt rear, I got a 43lb converter(with no fluid) a 9 inch read with a damn Detroit locker and a steel driveshaft!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am turning a TON of rotational weight.
You have an extra gear to keep the car in the sweet spot of the curve, my 1-2 gear drop is HUGE.
Your converter should keep you in the power band the whole run. If it doesn't then it is the incorrect stall for your combo. Take a look at the dyno chart Phil posted, on that car he will be making 550rwhp the whole run, no climbing curves, lifting off the gas to shift, ect. I'm sure you also have 1/2 the rotating mass I do just from my wheel/tire combo along with my brakes.
Like I said in my last post that you haven't address your car has more in common with Rick's than mine does with Javier's, but according to you your setup can't be compared to Rick's but mine can be compared to Javier's. A bit hypocritical don't you think? There's plenty of stalled auto Ai cars out there that are actually setup for the drag strip that you can compare to other cars if you do the research. Here's an example of what a car with my setup does with the few extra power mods and a chassis setup for the drag strip runs. https://ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-m...na-9s-n2o.html
Anyway I'm done arguing on the subject. It's kind of hard to argue with someone who only states the facts in his favor and ignores the rest of the data.
02-03-2009, 03:35 PM
#56
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And no an auto will not out trap stick shift with the same rwhp and weight. The same rwhp pushing the same weight in the same DA should MPH the same regardless of transmission, again why dont we MPH the same?
The auto should ET better because it hooks better, not MPH better. But we all know when you spin you MPH better, we all also know that if you hook harder it hurts MPH. I thought we all knew that?
ANd how in the hell does a stalled auto have more average power than a stick car? You dyno the car in whichever gear is 1to1, 4th for you, 3rd for me. You have less weight on the back of the crank and a 10 bolt rear, I got a 43lb converter(with no fluid) a 9 inch read with a damn Detroit locker and a steel driveshaft!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am turning a TON of rotational weight.
The auto should ET better because it hooks better, not MPH better. But we all know when you spin you MPH better, we all also know that if you hook harder it hurts MPH. I thought we all knew that?
ANd how in the hell does a stalled auto have more average power than a stick car? You dyno the car in whichever gear is 1to1, 4th for you, 3rd for me. You have less weight on the back of the crank and a 10 bolt rear, I got a 43lb converter(with no fluid) a 9 inch read with a damn Detroit locker and a steel driveshaft!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am turning a TON of rotational weight.
355, stock crank, 6" rods, SRP pistons, ported stock castings, ported intake, T56, stock torque arm, stock d-shaft, Ford 9" rear, 236/242 hydro roller cam, RR's, long tubes and 4" mufflex....
car dynoed 422 RWHP with the T56 and 394 RWTQ naturally aspirated....
car ran 11.8@119 mph roughly 3550 lb curbweight.....
swapped to TH400, 4000 stall, Denny's 3" steel nitrous shaft, Spohn torque arm with crossmember relocation....
Redynoed car and dynoed 375 RWHP and 387RWTQ....
Car ran 11.6@117 with 26" slick and 3.89 gears..... so lost 2 mph but picked up 2 tenths just from being able to finally launch like it should.....
So to anyone listening if you swap to an Th400 from a T56 you will lose roughly 50hp and probably 2 mph in the 1/4 roughly....
But your car will most likely be 2-3 tenths faster depending on setup, gearing, curbweight, driving style, etc..... I'm thinking 1 tenth is easily from launch, and 1 tenth is from not having to lift when you shift like in a T56..... If you lift shift when you drive your stick you will most likely pick up more than 2 tenths.... if you powershift then 2-3 tenths is normal....
So whoever says you won't lose MPH is wrong.... The stick will be the FASTER car trapspeed wise but the auto will finish the race 1st....
02-03-2009, 04:30 PM
#60
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Thats not as entirely correct as you like to make it seem. A properly set up transmission/converter combo will run the same if not better mph as a t-56. Going to a power zapping overkill th400 will kill power and possibly the mph, especially when running a shitbox converter. But when running a 4l60, that argument is severely lessened.