What heads to use on 396 stroker?
02-03-2009, 04:32 PM
#61
Village Troll 
iTrader: (2)
Greatness in this thread:
"we need to make sure youtube gets over here to film this" - michael scott
Anyway...
The heads I'm using are LPE LT4 ported along w/ a ported intake. To be honest they have absolutely no business being on my solid roller 396, but they have exceeded my expectations. The engine plateaus at 7200rpm. I do not have the nerve to take it any higher since being on the stock PCM. With the right gear/tire combination my best 120.8mph 1/4mi run (3750 race weight) could increase a few mph as well as drastically improving ET. At this point in time it's actually kind of nice because even though the engine is being choked I have outstanding torque from 1500rpm to my 7200rpm shift points which makes driving in stop/go traffic a breeze.
Point being is you can still make decent power w/ a 396 if you have stock castings that are ported by a reputable shop. Eventually I am going to go with an AI 220cc head, but I can't justify the cost at this point in time.
"we need to make sure youtube gets over here to film this" - michael scott
Anyway...
The heads I'm using are LPE LT4 ported along w/ a ported intake. To be honest they have absolutely no business being on my solid roller 396, but they have exceeded my expectations. The engine plateaus at 7200rpm. I do not have the nerve to take it any higher since being on the stock PCM. With the right gear/tire combination my best 120.8mph 1/4mi run (3750 race weight) could increase a few mph as well as drastically improving ET. At this point in time it's actually kind of nice because even though the engine is being choked I have outstanding torque from 1500rpm to my 7200rpm shift points which makes driving in stop/go traffic a breeze.
Point being is you can still make decent power w/ a 396 if you have stock castings that are ported by a reputable shop. Eventually I am going to go with an AI 220cc head, but I can't justify the cost at this point in time.
02-03-2009, 06:00 PM
#62
Rick came to us years back looking to have his TFS twisted wedge LT1 heads worked on. Instead, we recognized that with his work ethic and ability to collect independent data he would be an ideal means of real world data collection. We do not own the car, nor do we work on it. Actually, we have never had the time to drive from NC to upstate NY to meet up with Rick. All of our dyno graphs have our name on them because customers send us DynoJet runfiles from independent shops & we use DJ's WinPep runviewer to create our own graphs from their data.
David, I have never attempted to claim Rick's car was a daily driver. You are posting opinions, and I am posting facts. The fact is that Rick runs a full compliment of BMR stock replacement parts. Many on these forums run the exact same components. A street type car that is raced is a far cry from a real race car that is cruised occasionally. Anyone with a car as finely adjusted as Rick's isn't going to risk hurting the setup by constantly taking it apart. Moreover, most recognize that once you cage a car, it is not really safe to drive on the street without a helmet & harnesses.
The cam is a 254/258 SR with .66X" net lift on both sides. I believe that is similar in duration to what you said you have? The service interval is 15-20k miles, primarily because that is when the lifter manufacturer recommends rebuilds. You should know we shy away from overly aggressive grinds in most applications for a myriad of reasons.
Rick is running our Street/Strip engine. Putting a stock LT1 long-block in an old race chassis does not make the little LT1 a "race engine." The engine is designed for street/strip use and will sit and idle, cruise, or rip around until it runs out of fuel. We already know what the longevity is for the valve train and components utilized. We have run them for years & will not risk our investment for another few hp by putting our valve train on the edge of destruction. The reason Rick is running the engine is to 1. determine the performance potential and 2. allow further refinement through his data acquisition and consistency. Rick has driven into town to local cruise-ins in the past, but rarely since it is a foolish risk to himself & his investment. The engine doesn't seem to know whether it is idling in staging or at Sonic as far as we can ascertain.
If you do not like him, why not ignore him? The fact remains that more often than not Dwayne is spot on with his advice. Most people who have been there recognize that a 4100-4200lb stock short block caprice that sees 16k/yr as a daily driver and still outruns most F-bodies is quite an accomplishment. You do not have to like or agree with the man, but you should at least respect his experience and what he has achieved.
David, I believe we spoke on the phone at length in the past. If I recall I suggested you contact some locals for your build. I do not say this to pick at you or demean you. I know you are not a professional engine/racecar builder so I do not expect you to be dead on with your interpretation of what is going on here. I am certain that in real life you are a hell of a nice guy, and online you are one of my favorite e-personalities. However, you are wrong here. When you attempt to simpify something this complex to that extent you give up too much accuracy for that assumption to retain its usefulness.
A proper 4l60e with the right converter will run at least as much mph as the average guy driving a synchronized t56. The key is getting the converter right. Rick is not going to run 150mph with a T56. If you swap to an auto and lose mph then you need to look into the trans (did you go to something like a th400?), change the converter, or seek sponsorship cause you're a driver (like Greenbean!). The probability is that the car would slow down with anything but a purpose built manual.
1. Rick runs a 4l60e
2. Rick's gearing is very similar to yours
3. Ricks car was 34XX, now estimated at 3370-3400
4. Rick ran 137mph w/ stock PCM etc. on the limiter 200ft out
5. Rick would probably gain with a proper exhaust
6. Most guys don't street drive lockers either
7. Rick does not run heat/a/c anymore. Power windows, dash and all that intact.
8. Rick has enough rad to idle indefinitely. And 35lb of lead in the nose.
9. Rick runs an upgraded caliper/disc
It could be argued that your near 13:1 compression is less streetable than his 11.7:1. Same for him running a cylinder head & manifold that is significantly smaller than your setup.
It is improbable that would get you into the 9's at 136 mph. Rick went 9.97 with the 190cc head and 9.88 with the 200cc revision if memory serves. Back then the car made 50Xrw with the 190's and ~520rw with the 200's, SAE of course. That was with stock ported castings, and an unwelded near-stock LT1 intake manifold.
Here is the old dyno info: http://www.advancedinduction.com/dyn...906GMvsHFI.jpg
I would be willing to bet that if your altered your setup to alleviate the 115rwhp deficit between his setup and yours that you would run 9's at 136mph. I think you have done a good job with the chassis. Comparing the average guy (that would be you) with a hot street/strip setup to a guy like Rick is never going to be favorable. I assure you, the farther you dig into it, the less you are going to like it.
I think your car would compare more favorably to someone like Mike Harris' impala ss. Like you, he refuses to ruin a nice car. He runs the factory PCM, full stock leather interior, near 3900lb scaled raceweight, and approximately the same compression as you. Of course he only runs our 200cc CNC'd GM LT1's, a GM LT1 manifold, and a 245deg .635" lift cam vs. your much larger converted RHS heads, significantly larger cam, and converted super victor manifold. With the impala being more difficult to get down the track, and heavier, he has done very well. Here is his old dyno sheet:
http://www.advancedinduction.com/Dyno/MHImpyDyno.jpg
I believe his current best is also 10.5's @ 125-126mph. Of course it was likely run in average air up in Ohio where he runs. The biggest difference between the fast guys and the average guys, barring budget, is work. You will never compete with the guys who run their cars as often as you post.
This thread has been completely run off track. We have always been taken aback at the passionate responses Rick's car gets. If you guys would like to have a thread about Rick (or any of our other fast guys) then start one and we will answer questions as time allows. They're just cars guys.
Take Care,
-Phil
Phil can say what he wants, its a race car. Period, It might can be "driven" on the street. But its a racecar. Stock suspension, pumpgas means nothing. DRIVE it on the street. You can have an old Pro Mod car with a pumpgas 706 and a 4L80E, if you can DRIVE it, its a streetcar.
Originally Posted by FASTFATBOY
And Phil, how much cam is in that car.....will it live on the STREET for 10,000 miles? My cam setup already has 6500 miles on it with no problems(solid roller) Its doing fine. I got big heads and a moderate cam, bigger the heads the less cam you need.
Originally Posted by FASTFATBOY
A street/strip car is one you DRIVE on the street and race. Not sits on a trailer all week, gets drug to the track unloads, runs a good number on pumpgas, gets loaded back up, drug home and sits on a trailer all week. Or unloaded to get put in the shop to work on. Thats a RACE car.
Man I gotta tell yam you are on some GOOD STUFF!
A stalled auto will out MPH a stick car? I dont even lock my converter in the back 1/2 of the track!!
AGAIN, RWHP pushing a given weight=trap speed PERIOID, the only vaiable is density altitude. If you get even moderate traction the mph will be "true".
A stalled auto will out MPH a stick car? I dont even lock my converter in the back 1/2 of the track!!
AGAIN, RWHP pushing a given weight=trap speed PERIOID, the only vaiable is density altitude. If you get even moderate traction the mph will be "true".
A proper 4l60e with the right converter will run at least as much mph as the average guy driving a synchronized t56. The key is getting the converter right. Rick is not going to run 150mph with a T56. If you swap to an auto and lose mph then you need to look into the trans (did you go to something like a th400?), change the converter, or seek sponsorship cause you're a driver (like Greenbean!). The probability is that the car would slow down with anything but a purpose built manual.
Originally Posted by FASTFATBOY
WHat makes my car NOT a racecar? Well lets see here....
1. 4L60E with a 43lb! lock up torque converter.
2. Moderate 4.11 gears with a 28 inch tall tire.
3. 3600 lbs
4. Stock electonics AND optispark
5. FULL exhaust system to the rear bumper
6. 9 inch rear with ALL steel internals and case WITH a Detroit locker
7. Full interior with heater, A/C box still in car
8. Big heavy *** radiator over the nose of the car.
9. Stock brakes.
10. Moderate camshaft.
1. 4L60E with a 43lb! lock up torque converter.
2. Moderate 4.11 gears with a 28 inch tall tire.
3. 3600 lbs
4. Stock electonics AND optispark
5. FULL exhaust system to the rear bumper
6. 9 inch rear with ALL steel internals and case WITH a Detroit locker
7. Full interior with heater, A/C box still in car
8. Big heavy *** radiator over the nose of the car.
9. Stock brakes.
10. Moderate camshaft.
2. Rick's gearing is very similar to yours
3. Ricks car was 34XX, now estimated at 3370-3400
4. Rick ran 137mph w/ stock PCM etc. on the limiter 200ft out
5. Rick would probably gain with a proper exhaust
6. Most guys don't street drive lockers either
7. Rick does not run heat/a/c anymore. Power windows, dash and all that intact.
8. Rick has enough rad to idle indefinitely. And 35lb of lead in the nose.
9. Rick runs an upgraded caliper/disc
It could be argued that your near 13:1 compression is less streetable than his 11.7:1. Same for him running a cylinder head & manifold that is significantly smaller than your setup
.
Originally Posted by FASTFATBOY
How could I get in the 9's and pick up 8-10 mph?
1. Gut the car to 3300 raceweight
2. Install a turbo 400 with a brake
3. Aerospace brakes
4. Remove exhaust
5. Bigger camshaft
6. BS3 engine management
7. Aluminum center section, spool, lightened 4.56 or bigger gear.
8. Stock Radiator
9. Aluminum seat(s)
10. slicks
1. Gut the car to 3300 raceweight
2. Install a turbo 400 with a brake
3. Aerospace brakes
4. Remove exhaust
5. Bigger camshaft
6. BS3 engine management
7. Aluminum center section, spool, lightened 4.56 or bigger gear.
8. Stock Radiator
9. Aluminum seat(s)
10. slicks
Here is the old dyno info: http://www.advancedinduction.com/dyn...906GMvsHFI.jpg
I would be willing to bet that if your altered your setup to alleviate the 115rwhp deficit between his setup and yours that you would run 9's at 136mph. I think you have done a good job with the chassis. Comparing the average guy (that would be you) with a hot street/strip setup to a guy like Rick is never going to be favorable. I assure you, the farther you dig into it, the less you are going to like it.
I think your car would compare more favorably to someone like Mike Harris' impala ss. Like you, he refuses to ruin a nice car. He runs the factory PCM, full stock leather interior, near 3900lb scaled raceweight, and approximately the same compression as you. Of course he only runs our 200cc CNC'd GM LT1's, a GM LT1 manifold, and a 245deg .635" lift cam vs. your much larger converted RHS heads, significantly larger cam, and converted super victor manifold. With the impala being more difficult to get down the track, and heavier, he has done very well. Here is his old dyno sheet:
http://www.advancedinduction.com/Dyno/MHImpyDyno.jpg
I believe his current best is also 10.5's @ 125-126mph. Of course it was likely run in average air up in Ohio where he runs. The biggest difference between the fast guys and the average guys, barring budget, is work. You will never compete with the guys who run their cars as often as you post.
This thread has been completely run off track. We have always been taken aback at the passionate responses Rick's car gets. If you guys would like to have a thread about Rick (or any of our other fast guys) then start one and we will answer questions as time allows. They're just cars guys.
Take Care,
-Phil
02-03-2009, 06:24 PM
#63
My 3.73's keep me between 5000-5800 from the 1/8th - 1/4. I don't see how that is keeping me in my sweat spot.
Your converter should keep you in the power band the whole run. If it doesn't then it is the incorrect stall for your combo. Take a look at the dyno chart Phil posted, on that car he will be making 550rwhp the whole run, no climbing curves, lifting off the gas to shift, ect. I'm sure you also have 1/2 the rotating mass I do just from my wheel/tire combo along with my brakes.
Like I said in my last post that you haven't address your car has more in common with Rick's than mine does with Javier's, but according to you your setup can't be compared to Rick's but mine can be compared to Javier's. A bit hypocritical don't you think? There's plenty of stalled auto Ai cars out there that are actually setup for the drag strip that you can compare to other cars if you do the research. Here's an example of what a car with my setup does with the few extra power mods and a chassis setup for the drag strip runs. https://ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-m...na-9s-n2o.html
Anyway I'm done arguing on the subject. It's kind of hard to argue with someone who only states the facts in his favor and ignores the rest of the data.
Your converter should keep you in the power band the whole run. If it doesn't then it is the incorrect stall for your combo. Take a look at the dyno chart Phil posted, on that car he will be making 550rwhp the whole run, no climbing curves, lifting off the gas to shift, ect. I'm sure you also have 1/2 the rotating mass I do just from my wheel/tire combo along with my brakes.
Like I said in my last post that you haven't address your car has more in common with Rick's than mine does with Javier's, but according to you your setup can't be compared to Rick's but mine can be compared to Javier's. A bit hypocritical don't you think? There's plenty of stalled auto Ai cars out there that are actually setup for the drag strip that you can compare to other cars if you do the research. Here's an example of what a car with my setup does with the few extra power mods and a chassis setup for the drag strip runs. https://ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-m...na-9s-n2o.html
Anyway I'm done arguing on the subject. It's kind of hard to argue with someone who only states the facts in his favor and ignores the rest of the data.
The car your comparing yours to in the link weighs 3100 lbs, ITS GUTTED!
02-03-2009, 07:14 PM
#64
Rick came to us years back looking to have his TFS twisted wedge LT1 heads worked on. Instead, we recognized that with his work ethic and ability to collect independent data he would be an ideal means of real world data collection. We do not own the car, nor do we work on it. Actually, we have never had the time to drive from NC to upstate NY to meet up with Rick. All of our dyno graphs have our name on them because customers send us DynoJet runfiles from independent shops & we use DJ's WinPep runviewer to create our own graphs from their data.
================================================== ========BUT YOU MADE IT CLEAR ITS AN R AND D VEHICLE
David, I have never attempted to claim Rick's car was a daily driver. You are posting opinions, and I am posting facts. The fact is that Rick runs a full compliment of BMR stock replacement parts. Many on these forums run the exact same components. A street type car that is raced is a far cry from a real race car that is cruised occasionally. Anyone with a car as finely adjusted as Rick's isn't going to risk hurting the setup by constantly taking it apart. Moreover, most recognize that once you cage a car, it is not really safe to drive on the street without a helmet & harnesses.
================================================== ======
YOU MAY NOT HAVE CLAIMED ITS A STREETCAR BUT MANY ON BOARDS BELIVE IT IS, FULL INTERIOR, FULL EXHAUST CRUISER, ITS NOT.
The cam is a 254/258 SR with .66X" net lift on both sides. I believe that is similar in duration to what you said you have? The service interval is 15-20k miles, primarily because that is when the lifter manufacturer recommends rebuilds. You should know we shy away from overly aggressive grinds in most applications for a myriad of reasons.
================================================== =======
JUST BECAUSE THE NUMBERS ARE SIMILAR MEANS NOTHING, PROFILES ARE DIFFERENT I AM SURE.
Rick is running our Street/Strip engine. Putting a stock LT1 long-block in an old race chassis does not make the little LT1 a "race engine." The engine is designed for street/strip use and will sit and idle, cruise, or rip around until it runs out of fuel. We already know what the longevity is for the valve train and components utilized. We have run them for years & will not risk our investment for another few hp by putting our valve train on the edge of destruction. The reason Rick is running the engine is to 1. determine the performance potential and 2. allow further refinement through his data acquisition and consistency. Rick has driven into town to local cruise-ins in the past, but rarely since it is a foolish risk to himself & his investment. The engine doesn't seem to know whether it is idling in staging or at Sonic as far as we can ascertain.
================================================== =======
SO WHY DOESNT HE?????
If you do not like him, why not ignore him? The fact remains that more often than not Dwayne is spot on with his advice. Most people who have been there recognize that a 4100-4200lb stock short block caprice that sees 16k/yr as a daily driver and still outruns most F-bodies is quite an accomplishment. You do not have to like or agree with the man, but you should at least respect his experience and what he has achieved.
================================================== ========
DWAYNE DOESNT HAVE TO COME OFF LIKE AN *** TO THESE KIDS WHO ARE TRYING TO DO NOTHING MORE THAN LEARN AND MAKE THEIR CAR FASTER.
David, I believe we spoke on the phone at length in the past. If I recall I suggested you contact some locals for your build. I do not say this to pick at you or demean you. I know you are not a professional engine/racecar builder so I do not expect you to be dead on with your interpretation of what is going on here. I am certain that in real life you are a hell of a nice guy, and online you are one of my favorite e-personalities. However, you are wrong here. When you attempt to simpify something this complex to that extent you give up too much accuracy for that assumption to retain its usefulness.
A proper 4l60e with the right converter will run at least as much mph as the average guy driving a synchronized t56. The key is getting the converter right. Rick is not going to run 150mph with a T56. If you swap to an auto and lose mph then you need to look into the trans (did you go to something like a th400?), change the converter, or seek sponsorship cause you're a driver (like Greenbean!). The probability is that the car would slow down with anything but a purpose built manual.
================================================== ======
I DISAGREE
1. Rick runs a 4l60e
2. Rick's gearing is very similar to yours
3. Ricks car was 34XX, now estimated at 3370-3400
4. Rick ran 137mph w/ stock PCM etc. on the limiter 200ft out
5. Rick would probably gain with a proper exhaust
6. Most guys don't street drive lockers either
7. Rick does not run heat/a/c anymore. Power windows, dash and all that intact.
8. Rick has enough rad to idle indefinitely. And 35lb of lead in the nose.
9. Rick runs an upgraded caliper/disc
It could be argued that your near 13:1 compression is less streetable than his 11.7:1. Same for him running a cylinder head & manifold that is significantly smaller than your setup.
=-================================================== =====
I HAVE 12.5 TO 1, LOCKERS ARE FINE ON THE STREET, YOU CANT BREAK THEM.
It is improbable that would get you into the 9's at 136 mph. Rick went 9.97 with the 190cc head and 9.88 with the 200cc revision if memory serves. Back then the car made 50Xrw with the 190's and ~520rw with the 200's, SAE of course. That was with stock ported castings, and an unwelded near-stock LT1 intake manifold.
Here is the old dyno info: http://www.advancedinduction.com/dyn...906GMvsHFI.jpg
I would be willing to bet that if your altered your setup to alleviate the 115rwhp deficit between his setup and yours that you would run 9's at 136mph. I think you have done a good job with the chassis. Comparing the average guy (that would be you) with a hot street/strip setup to a guy like Rick is never going to be favorable. I assure you, the farther you dig into it, the less you are going to like it.
================================================== ======
MY TUNE NEEDS TO BE TWEAKED, WITH THE CORRECT FULL BLOWN CONVERTER, DRAG REAR SWAYBAR, 300LBS OF WEIGHT REDUCTION I WOULD BE KNOCKING ON THE DOOR OF THE 9'S WITH A TURBO 350 AND A BRAKE I FEEL I COULD GET THERE.
I think your car would compare more favorably to someone like Mike Harris' impala ss. Like you, he refuses to ruin a nice car. He runs the factory PCM, full stock leather interior, near 3900lb scaled raceweight, and approximately the same compression as you. Of course he only runs our 200cc CNC'd GM LT1's, a GM LT1 manifold, and a 245deg .635" lift cam vs. your much larger converted RHS heads, significantly larger cam, and converted super victor manifold. With the impala being more difficult to get down the track, and heavier, he has done very well. Here is his old dyno sheet:
http://www.advancedinduction.com/Dyno/MHImpyDyno.jpg
I believe his current best is also 10.5's @ 125-126mph. Of course it was likely run in average air up in Ohio where he runs. The biggest difference between the fast guys and the average guys, barring budget, is work. You will never compete with the guys who run their cars as often as you post.
================================================== ========
SO IS THIS CAR A REAL STREETCAR OR ONE THATS LIKE ABARES?
This thread has been completely run off track. We have always been taken aback at the passionate responses Rick's car gets. If you guys would like to have a thread about Rick (or any of our other fast guys) then start one and we will answer questions as time allows. They're just cars guys.
Take Care,
-Phil
I HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH YOU, Ai OR ABARES CAR. JUST CALL IT WHAT IT REALLY IS. A RACECAR.
================================================== ========BUT YOU MADE IT CLEAR ITS AN R AND D VEHICLE
David, I have never attempted to claim Rick's car was a daily driver. You are posting opinions, and I am posting facts. The fact is that Rick runs a full compliment of BMR stock replacement parts. Many on these forums run the exact same components. A street type car that is raced is a far cry from a real race car that is cruised occasionally. Anyone with a car as finely adjusted as Rick's isn't going to risk hurting the setup by constantly taking it apart. Moreover, most recognize that once you cage a car, it is not really safe to drive on the street without a helmet & harnesses.
================================================== ======
YOU MAY NOT HAVE CLAIMED ITS A STREETCAR BUT MANY ON BOARDS BELIVE IT IS, FULL INTERIOR, FULL EXHAUST CRUISER, ITS NOT.
The cam is a 254/258 SR with .66X" net lift on both sides. I believe that is similar in duration to what you said you have? The service interval is 15-20k miles, primarily because that is when the lifter manufacturer recommends rebuilds. You should know we shy away from overly aggressive grinds in most applications for a myriad of reasons.
================================================== =======
JUST BECAUSE THE NUMBERS ARE SIMILAR MEANS NOTHING, PROFILES ARE DIFFERENT I AM SURE.
Rick is running our Street/Strip engine. Putting a stock LT1 long-block in an old race chassis does not make the little LT1 a "race engine." The engine is designed for street/strip use and will sit and idle, cruise, or rip around until it runs out of fuel. We already know what the longevity is for the valve train and components utilized. We have run them for years & will not risk our investment for another few hp by putting our valve train on the edge of destruction. The reason Rick is running the engine is to 1. determine the performance potential and 2. allow further refinement through his data acquisition and consistency. Rick has driven into town to local cruise-ins in the past, but rarely since it is a foolish risk to himself & his investment. The engine doesn't seem to know whether it is idling in staging or at Sonic as far as we can ascertain.
================================================== =======
SO WHY DOESNT HE?????
If you do not like him, why not ignore him? The fact remains that more often than not Dwayne is spot on with his advice. Most people who have been there recognize that a 4100-4200lb stock short block caprice that sees 16k/yr as a daily driver and still outruns most F-bodies is quite an accomplishment. You do not have to like or agree with the man, but you should at least respect his experience and what he has achieved.
================================================== ========
DWAYNE DOESNT HAVE TO COME OFF LIKE AN *** TO THESE KIDS WHO ARE TRYING TO DO NOTHING MORE THAN LEARN AND MAKE THEIR CAR FASTER.
David, I believe we spoke on the phone at length in the past. If I recall I suggested you contact some locals for your build. I do not say this to pick at you or demean you. I know you are not a professional engine/racecar builder so I do not expect you to be dead on with your interpretation of what is going on here. I am certain that in real life you are a hell of a nice guy, and online you are one of my favorite e-personalities. However, you are wrong here. When you attempt to simpify something this complex to that extent you give up too much accuracy for that assumption to retain its usefulness.
A proper 4l60e with the right converter will run at least as much mph as the average guy driving a synchronized t56. The key is getting the converter right. Rick is not going to run 150mph with a T56. If you swap to an auto and lose mph then you need to look into the trans (did you go to something like a th400?), change the converter, or seek sponsorship cause you're a driver (like Greenbean!). The probability is that the car would slow down with anything but a purpose built manual.
================================================== ======
I DISAGREE
1. Rick runs a 4l60e
2. Rick's gearing is very similar to yours
3. Ricks car was 34XX, now estimated at 3370-3400
4. Rick ran 137mph w/ stock PCM etc. on the limiter 200ft out
5. Rick would probably gain with a proper exhaust
6. Most guys don't street drive lockers either
7. Rick does not run heat/a/c anymore. Power windows, dash and all that intact.
8. Rick has enough rad to idle indefinitely. And 35lb of lead in the nose.
9. Rick runs an upgraded caliper/disc
It could be argued that your near 13:1 compression is less streetable than his 11.7:1. Same for him running a cylinder head & manifold that is significantly smaller than your setup
.=-================================================== =====
I HAVE 12.5 TO 1, LOCKERS ARE FINE ON THE STREET, YOU CANT BREAK THEM.
It is improbable that would get you into the 9's at 136 mph. Rick went 9.97 with the 190cc head and 9.88 with the 200cc revision if memory serves. Back then the car made 50Xrw with the 190's and ~520rw with the 200's, SAE of course. That was with stock ported castings, and an unwelded near-stock LT1 intake manifold.
Here is the old dyno info: http://www.advancedinduction.com/dyn...906GMvsHFI.jpg
I would be willing to bet that if your altered your setup to alleviate the 115rwhp deficit between his setup and yours that you would run 9's at 136mph. I think you have done a good job with the chassis. Comparing the average guy (that would be you) with a hot street/strip setup to a guy like Rick is never going to be favorable. I assure you, the farther you dig into it, the less you are going to like it.
================================================== ======
MY TUNE NEEDS TO BE TWEAKED, WITH THE CORRECT FULL BLOWN CONVERTER, DRAG REAR SWAYBAR, 300LBS OF WEIGHT REDUCTION I WOULD BE KNOCKING ON THE DOOR OF THE 9'S WITH A TURBO 350 AND A BRAKE I FEEL I COULD GET THERE.
I think your car would compare more favorably to someone like Mike Harris' impala ss. Like you, he refuses to ruin a nice car. He runs the factory PCM, full stock leather interior, near 3900lb scaled raceweight, and approximately the same compression as you. Of course he only runs our 200cc CNC'd GM LT1's, a GM LT1 manifold, and a 245deg .635" lift cam vs. your much larger converted RHS heads, significantly larger cam, and converted super victor manifold. With the impala being more difficult to get down the track, and heavier, he has done very well. Here is his old dyno sheet:
http://www.advancedinduction.com/Dyno/MHImpyDyno.jpg
I believe his current best is also 10.5's @ 125-126mph. Of course it was likely run in average air up in Ohio where he runs. The biggest difference between the fast guys and the average guys, barring budget, is work. You will never compete with the guys who run their cars as often as you post.
================================================== ========
SO IS THIS CAR A REAL STREETCAR OR ONE THATS LIKE ABARES?
This thread has been completely run off track. We have always been taken aback at the passionate responses Rick's car gets. If you guys would like to have a thread about Rick (or any of our other fast guys) then start one and we will answer questions as time allows. They're just cars guys.
Take Care,
-Phil
I HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH YOU, Ai OR ABARES CAR. JUST CALL IT WHAT IT REALLY IS. A RACECAR.
02-03-2009, 07:18 PM
#65
Village Troll
iTrader: (2)
As already stated if you are going to compare Javier's mph to speed's it is not a true comparison since again, speed hasn't spent a whole lot of time dialing the car in to run the 1/4mi. Both susp. gearing/tire combo are not even close to being optimal as well as no ported intake or e-w/p therefore your comparison is null and void.
02-03-2009, 07:29 PM
#66
As already stated if you are going to compare Javier's mph to speed's it is not a true comparison since again, speed hasn't spent a whole lot of time dialing the car in to run the 1/4mi. Both susp. gearing/tire combo are not even close to being optimal as well as no ported intake or e-w/p therefore your comparison is null and void.
His "setup"? I am lost obviously. Setup aint gonna make more mph, only quicker elapsed time. "Dialing" in the car to run 1/4 mile will help his ET, not his MPH.
mph=power
setup= elapsed time.
02-03-2009, 07:35 PM
#67
02-03-2009, 08:48 PM
#69
Wow since we have gotten way off topic and off track I'll just throw in that the definition of what a street car is greatly varies by what the owner will tolerate on the street as well as any mannerisms inherent to the set up...At 39 years old I love my weenie cammed HR 383 which still runs the AIR pump, EWP, A/C, heat, p/w, p/l, full stock interior minus the back seat, even though I run it through a Vig 4000 stalled 4L60E, 4.10s, spool, and a host of rod ended suspension parts, QA1s, etc...I drive the thing everywhere and I think its a street car plain and simple...My 71 year old dad, who is also a diehard car guy, screams racecar everytime he gets within 10 feet of the damn thing...
--Alan
...I remember a time when anything with a SR was a racecar...A streetcar is in the eyes of the beholder...
--Alan
...I remember a time when anything with a SR was a racecar...A streetcar is in the eyes of the beholder...
02-03-2009, 10:16 PM
#71
I went from 93mph to 96-98mph by tweaking and dialing in my setup. With better air and more track time I'm sure I could have gone quicker/faster.
You can believe what you want though.
02-04-2009, 03:06 AM
#72
Village Troll
iTrader: (2)
I too have gained both ET and MPH just by a simple gear ratio change from 4.11's to 3.73's. It all has to do with utilizing the power curve. As I already mentioned I am running a 3.73 gear with a 26" ET Street. With the tire growth experienced even though I ran almost 121mph my speedo read 112mph when crossing the traps along with rpm being in the 5500 range. That is hardly a true indicator of the engine's power level when it should be around 1500rpm higher while crossing the traps.
My plan is a 28" tire on a 15X10 wheel and 4.88 gears. That "setup" should put down far better results.
My plan is a 28" tire on a 15X10 wheel and 4.88 gears. That "setup" should put down far better results.
02-04-2009, 09:03 AM
#73
I too have gained both ET and MPH just by a simple gear ratio change from 4.11's to 3.73's. It all has to do with utilizing the power curve. As I already mentioned I am running a 3.73 gear with a 26" ET Street. With the tire growth experienced even though I ran almost 121mph my speedo read 112mph when crossing the traps along with rpm being in the 5500 range. That is hardly a true indicator of the engine's power level when it should be around 1500rpm higher while crossing the traps.
My plan is a 28" tire on a 15X10 wheel and 4.88 gears. That "setup" should put down far better results.
My plan is a 28" tire on a 15X10 wheel and 4.88 gears. That "setup" should put down far better results.
...just park that terd and get an import.
02-04-2009, 09:06 AM
#74
David, I believe we spoke on the phone at length in the past. If I recall I suggested you contact some locals for your build. I do not say this to pick at you or demean you. I know you are not a professional engine/racecar builder so I do not expect you to be dead on with your interpretation of what is going on here. I am certain that in real life you are a hell of a nice guy, and online you are one of my favorite e-personalities. However, you are wrong here. When you attempt to simpify something this complex to that extent you give up too much accuracy for that assumption to retain its usefulness.
A proper 4l60e with the right converter will run at least as much mph as the average guy driving a synchronized t56. The key is getting the converter right. Rick is not going to run 150mph with a T56. If you swap to an auto and lose mph then you need to look into the trans (did you go to something like a th400?), change the converter, or seek sponsorship cause you're a driver (like Greenbean!). The probability is that the car would slow down with anything but a purpose built manual.
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I DISAGREE
A proper 4l60e with the right converter will run at least as much mph as the average guy driving a synchronized t56. The key is getting the converter right. Rick is not going to run 150mph with a T56. If you swap to an auto and lose mph then you need to look into the trans (did you go to something like a th400?), change the converter, or seek sponsorship cause you're a driver (like Greenbean!). The probability is that the car would slow down with anything but a purpose built manual.
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I DISAGREE
