Gauging Interest in "BIG" CID LT1 Block
04-05-2009, 08:13 AM
#41
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def. interested in this. Why all you guys downin the idea so quickly? Through some ls heads and efi victor intake on it and have fun with your built lt1 bottom end. That is what the LS DART block is for, guys with bullet proof gen 1 bottom ends that one some better heads without going to complete ls set ups. I say go for it
04-05-2009, 09:07 AM
#42
The one Jeff kept for himself has done mid 9s at 146mph in a 4400lbs car on pump gas. 15psi+ a little nitrous to cool it. Says he found 8 second power in it but has repeatedly broken other parts.
Car still has a stock pcm, stock opti, 4L60E, 8.5" 10bolt, modded LT1 intake and a whole bunck of other stuff every kid who wants a 12 second car thinks wont work.
Far as the Dart block, I don't think it would be that big a deal to make a LTx block seeing as it is HUGELY similar to the gen 1 stuff they already make. Problem is you have a community that makes decisions based on a $50 savings on a $2000 purchase
you really think enough of them are going to buy something like this???This is besides the fact hardly anyone is pushing the LT1 block to any limits, hell when someone goes mid 9s NA you guys want to believe it is cheating somehow. You think you need to throw away the entire top half and go to gen 1 stuff to get NA 10s
even when a few guys show you how to do it with LT1 stuff you still jump on the gen 1 bandwagon. 
04-05-2009, 10:50 AM
#44
"Why all you guys downin the idea so quickly?"
I don’t think anybody is "downing the idea". We’d all love to see it done. It’s just that the idea has been tossed around a few times over the years by the various aftermarket block makers and it’s just not a wise business choice for them. As time goes by, the buyer base and market for LT1 engine parts and development gets less and less. If a few years ago it was decided that investing in the LT1 market was a bad business choice, what would entice them to sink money into it today?
The LS series engines have taken over for good reasons. At a certain point, it just makes sense to go to the LS. Intake and exhaust runner designs outperform anything that can be done with a gen 1 engine, even with the SB2.2 heads & intake. This is one of the reasons that World has the gen 1/LS block. It’s not the block or it’s size, it’s the heads.
There’s been a small handful of guys here who’ve converted a gen 1 to run on the optispark either converting the timing cover or a rear mounted distributor. Go do this with the World gen 1/LS block and you’ll be producing power that rivals a big block. Again, of course, you’ll spend more money that it would’ve took to swap outright to a LS engine.
Like 96caprice said, most of you guys are looking at the block and cubic inches when there’s much more to be had elsewhere in these engines.
I don’t think anybody is "downing the idea". We’d all love to see it done. It’s just that the idea has been tossed around a few times over the years by the various aftermarket block makers and it’s just not a wise business choice for them. As time goes by, the buyer base and market for LT1 engine parts and development gets less and less. If a few years ago it was decided that investing in the LT1 market was a bad business choice, what would entice them to sink money into it today?
The LS series engines have taken over for good reasons. At a certain point, it just makes sense to go to the LS. Intake and exhaust runner designs outperform anything that can be done with a gen 1 engine, even with the SB2.2 heads & intake. This is one of the reasons that World has the gen 1/LS block. It’s not the block or it’s size, it’s the heads.
There’s been a small handful of guys here who’ve converted a gen 1 to run on the optispark either converting the timing cover or a rear mounted distributor. Go do this with the World gen 1/LS block and you’ll be producing power that rivals a big block. Again, of course, you’ll spend more money that it would’ve took to swap outright to a LS engine.
Like 96caprice said, most of you guys are looking at the block and cubic inches when there’s much more to be had elsewhere in these engines.
04-05-2009, 01:55 PM
#47
I've always been interested in doing a big disp. LT1, but something tells me if this were to happen the price would be sky high and there would be little demand, especially since it may be less expensive to build a big cube LS1 and get virtually the same or much better results for the money spent.
if TFS would come up with 12*, 13* or 15* LT1 heads i'm sure the LT1 will make similar power to LS1 engine.
04-05-2009, 02:04 PM
#48
i like the LT1 engine sound much more than LS1 engine. i owned a 94 LT1 camaro and 2000 LS1 camaro, the LT1 has bikey sound (with mods ofcourse, hooker long tube headers, borla exhaust system and other mods) that i like much more than LS1.
if TFS would come up with 12*, 13* or 15* LT1 heads i'm sure the LT1 will make similar power to LS1 engine.
if TFS would come up with 12*, 13* or 15* LT1 heads i'm sure the LT1 will make similar power to LS1 engine.
04-05-2009, 02:07 PM
#49
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That's the problem... "If companies came out with this or that..." for the LT1 "then results would be....."
If some companys were to come out w/ a different angle heads that somehow were able to accommodate as much power as what we are currently seeing in popular LSx head choices then you would have to also possibly factor in the cost for new headers and maybe even a y-pipe. Even if power were to match that of a big cube LS1 would the cost justify the means?
If some companys were to come out w/ a different angle heads that somehow were able to accommodate as much power as what we are currently seeing in popular LSx head choices then you would have to also possibly factor in the cost for new headers and maybe even a y-pipe. Even if power were to match that of a big cube LS1 would the cost justify the means?
04-05-2009, 02:47 PM
#50
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The pic they have on the site isn't very good, but the block is changed quite a bit to get the heads to fit. The factory LS intake also fits as well as the exhaust manifolds/headers. They had an article in Hot Rod magazine and this set up made more power than an LS with same cam..etc.
I'd take a Dart LT block that could fit LS heads/LS Victor JR intake!
I'd take a Dart LT block that could fit LS heads/LS Victor JR intake!
I realize they can use the LS items, but I would think that there isn't a huge aftermarket for headers for this swap. Then again, maybe there is with all the GEN III/IV engines so easily available. What I'm getting at, is GEN I/II exhaust won't work due to the change in the ports from O-OO-O to O-O-O-O.
04-05-2009, 06:45 PM
#52
That's the problem... "If companies came out with this or that..." for the LT1 "then results would be....."
If some companys were to come out w/ a different angle heads that somehow were able to accommodate as much power as what we are currently seeing in popular LSx head choices then you would have to also possibly factor in the cost for new headers and maybe even a y-pipe. Even if power were to match that of a big cube LS1 would the cost justify the means?
If some companys were to come out w/ a different angle heads that somehow were able to accommodate as much power as what we are currently seeing in popular LSx head choices then you would have to also possibly factor in the cost for new headers and maybe even a y-pipe. Even if power were to match that of a big cube LS1 would the cost justify the means?
I'd rather get some killer heads and then need a new set of headers as a result then swap my rotating assy to an LSX-LTX hybrid or do a full engine swap - then need new headers anyway
.
04-05-2009, 08:09 PM
#53
"what about adapting the block to LS heads like the world Motown LS block"
I actually like the idea^^^. Easy way to make much bigger power without totally adapting to LS platform. And how much could they charge for a block?? You can get an LSX for under 2 and not worry about hurting it. I just don't think the demand is there for it.
I actually like the idea^^^. Easy way to make much bigger power without totally adapting to LS platform. And how much could they charge for a block?? You can get an LSX for under 2 and not worry about hurting it. I just don't think the demand is there for it.
04-05-2009, 08:14 PM
#54
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Comparatively speaking it may not be so trivial. Especially if the headers need to be custom fabricated. Forgot to add a different intake in there as well with the use of a different angle head. After all components are factored in it just may be more expensive than a big cube LS1 including all necessary parts to do the swap. The way I look at it is I want to get the most for my money and am not too concerned over nostalgia. I'll definitely pay attention to this if it does happen and will seriously weight the cost benefits of both if that time ever comes.
04-05-2009, 11:00 PM
#57
I'm not talking about daily drivers here, I mean in the text of those who are even willing to consider big cube/aftermarket builds - the ones in search of the serious power that current LTx heads have a very hard time delivering. The only reason the LT1 crowd does not see as many of the nasty 600+ hp NA street cars as gen1 and LSx guys is solely because of the heads - not the other so-called handicaps we already deal with like opti, cubic inch limits, intakes, etc. If you just want a 400hp daily driver that is a blast to drive to work every day and low maintenance, then ported stockers with a matched cam and a 355 refresh of the block is more then enough already.
If a persons goals and build is fine with factory casting heads, then it is not radical enough to consider a big cube block anyway.
It all depends on what the person wants out of their car, some are more competative then others and some are casual hobbyists happy to settle for less.
04-06-2009, 08:18 AM
#58
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The biggest problem with the whole idea is $$$$. Look at it from a business stand point. It takes alot of R&D into casting a new block of that size designed around the LTX platform. If you weigh the cost to profit margin, Dart would loose money. The only way they wouldnt loose money is for every die hard LTX fan to buy one. Given the fact that only maybe 15% of those people will buy one, a hefty price tag will be there. It would be really nice but probaly not going to happen.
Like state before.............what if you could have a 400+ ci LT1 motor what heads are you gonna buy to supply the air needed to feed the motor. It would be cheaper to build a completely forged 383 and use a set of SB2.2 heads. Then it would be to buy a new block from Dart ($$$$$) then try to make a set of heads work. The only way I can see this to work is if Dart sold the block in the $2000 price range. Then a set of SB2.2 heads. But then your up in serious money. Most people aren't going to spend that much money on an LTX set up when you could have a larger LSX set up for less money.
AND FEW PEOPLE ARE PUSHING LT1'S TO THE LIMIT. If built right 355 ci LT1 can run 9's with juice. No one want to do it. People like just adding H/C's and saying thats all they can get out of it. Just because and LS1 can throw down well over 400 rwhp with H/C's with little to no effort. Take the time and do the math and research. If people are getting 9's with a NA 383 LT1.........and LSX people are doing the same with 408+ ci....... that says alot.
Like state before.............what if you could have a 400+ ci LT1 motor what heads are you gonna buy to supply the air needed to feed the motor. It would be cheaper to build a completely forged 383 and use a set of SB2.2 heads. Then it would be to buy a new block from Dart ($$$$$) then try to make a set of heads work. The only way I can see this to work is if Dart sold the block in the $2000 price range. Then a set of SB2.2 heads. But then your up in serious money. Most people aren't going to spend that much money on an LTX set up when you could have a larger LSX set up for less money.
AND FEW PEOPLE ARE PUSHING LT1'S TO THE LIMIT. If built right 355 ci LT1 can run 9's with juice. No one want to do it. People like just adding H/C's and saying thats all they can get out of it. Just because and LS1 can throw down well over 400 rwhp with H/C's with little to no effort. Take the time and do the math and research. If people are getting 9's with a NA 383 LT1.........and LSX people are doing the same with 408+ ci....... that says alot.
Last edited by Armyman2445; 04-06-2009 at 08:25 AM.
04-06-2009, 10:08 AM
#59
The biggest problem with the whole idea is $$$$. Look at it from a business stand point. It takes alot of R&D into casting a new block of that size designed around the LTX platform. If you weigh the cost to profit margin, Dart would loose money. The only way they wouldnt loose money is for every die hard LTX fan to buy one. Given the fact that only maybe 15% of those people will buy one, a hefty price tag will be there. It would be really nice but probaly not going to happen.
Like state before.............what if you could have a 400+ ci LT1 motor what heads are you gonna buy to supply the air needed to feed the motor. It would be cheaper to build a completely forged 383 and use a set of SB2.2 heads. Then it would be to buy a new block from Dart ($$$$$) then try to make a set of heads work. The only way I can see this to work is if Dart sold the block in the $2000 price range. Then a set of SB2.2 heads. But then your up in serious money. Most people aren't going to spend that much money on an LTX set up when you could have a larger LSX set up for less money.
AND FEW PEOPLE ARE PUSHING LT1'S TO THE LIMIT. If built right 355 ci LT1 can run 9's with juice. No one want to do it. People like just adding H/C's and saying thats all they can get out of it. Just because and LS1 can throw down well over 400 rwhp with H/C's with little to no effort. Take the time and do the math and research. If people are getting 9's with a NA 383 LT1.........and LSX people are doing the same with 408+ ci....... that says alot.
Like state before.............what if you could have a 400+ ci LT1 motor what heads are you gonna buy to supply the air needed to feed the motor. It would be cheaper to build a completely forged 383 and use a set of SB2.2 heads. Then it would be to buy a new block from Dart ($$$$$) then try to make a set of heads work. The only way I can see this to work is if Dart sold the block in the $2000 price range. Then a set of SB2.2 heads. But then your up in serious money. Most people aren't going to spend that much money on an LTX set up when you could have a larger LSX set up for less money.
AND FEW PEOPLE ARE PUSHING LT1'S TO THE LIMIT. If built right 355 ci LT1 can run 9's with juice. No one want to do it. People like just adding H/C's and saying thats all they can get out of it. Just because and LS1 can throw down well over 400 rwhp with H/C's with little to no effort. Take the time and do the math and research. If people are getting 9's with a NA 383 LT1.........and LSX people are doing the same with 408+ ci....... that says alot.
