Gauging Interest in "BIG" CID LT1 Block
04-07-2009, 10:54 PM
#81
im still sold. keep us updated. im about to pull my engine. and right now would be a perfect time to throw out the 178xxx mle block and move on to something bigger ad better. i like thne idea of keeping with the LT1. everyone is building lsx blocks and im the only one still doing the ltx block. And that is why i still have it to prove that the lt1 still can run like theirs can
04-08-2009, 12:13 AM
#82
Finally! Many here may not realize what a gift horse this is they're looking in the mouth.
Do you guys realize, there are Gen I SHP blocks available from vendors that are "all machined, Line honed, decked, bored and plate honed, pipe threads taped deeper is 1795.00 and shipped free in the U.S.?"
Do you guys realize what a deal that is? After you buy a block from the junkyard, even if it turns out OK, you pay for a bunch of machining to make it usable, you pay to have it converted to 4-bolt splayed, you pay for new main caps, etc, etc, etc....
By that time you're within a few hundred of this block and it's much weaker, has a poorer oiling system, is limited to 4.030 bore (for the most part), etc. This is a case where a little more money buys A LOT.
The availability of a Dart SHP LT1 block I think will have the opposite effect many here are predicting--it will make using a GM block make very little sense for any LT1 build beyond the most very basic, low budget build.
If you want to polish up the stock crank, throw in some new bearings and pistons and have a cheap 355, sure the GM block works fine. If you are converting to 4-bolt buying new caps, using a high dollar stroker crank and rotating assembly, etc, in the end a couple hundred $ more for all those cubic inches, strength and durability make this offering a NO BRAINER.
IMHO, of course.
DART SHP BROCHURE
Dart, please make it. I will buy one.
Wholesale selling price similar to SHP around $15-1750, maybe less (or more)
Do you guys realize what a deal that is? After you buy a block from the junkyard, even if it turns out OK, you pay for a bunch of machining to make it usable, you pay to have it converted to 4-bolt splayed, you pay for new main caps, etc, etc, etc....
By that time you're within a few hundred of this block and it's much weaker, has a poorer oiling system, is limited to 4.030 bore (for the most part), etc. This is a case where a little more money buys A LOT.
The availability of a Dart SHP LT1 block I think will have the opposite effect many here are predicting--it will make using a GM block make very little sense for any LT1 build beyond the most very basic, low budget build.
If you want to polish up the stock crank, throw in some new bearings and pistons and have a cheap 355, sure the GM block works fine. If you are converting to 4-bolt buying new caps, using a high dollar stroker crank and rotating assembly, etc, in the end a couple hundred $ more for all those cubic inches, strength and durability make this offering a NO BRAINER.
IMHO, of course.
DART SHP BROCHURE
Dart, please make it. I will buy one.
04-08-2009, 07:11 AM
#84
Village Troll 
iTrader: (2)
The next item to consider are drivetrain issues for M6 cars. I don't see a T-56 lasting all that long attached to a cubic monster like this if it's taken to the track and ran w/ good traction on a regular basis. Of course a steel drive shaft, SFI bellhouseing and a loop would be a must have.
04-08-2009, 11:08 AM
#86
Finally! Many here may not realize what a gift horse this is they're looking in the mouth.
Do you guys realize, there are Gen I SHP blocks available from vendors that are "all machined, Line honed, decked, bored and plate honed, pipe threads taped deeper is 1795.00 and shipped free in the U.S.?"
Do you guys realize what a deal that is? After you buy a block from the junkyard, even if it turns out OK, you pay for a bunch of machining to make it usable, you pay to have it converted to 4-bolt splayed, you pay for new main caps, etc, etc, etc....
Do you guys realize, there are Gen I SHP blocks available from vendors that are "all machined, Line honed, decked, bored and plate honed, pipe threads taped deeper is 1795.00 and shipped free in the U.S.?"
Do you guys realize what a deal that is? After you buy a block from the junkyard, even if it turns out OK, you pay for a bunch of machining to make it usable, you pay to have it converted to 4-bolt splayed, you pay for new main caps, etc, etc, etc....
04-08-2009, 07:28 PM
#91
Does it require a redesigned cam as well, or are the pushrods worked something like hemi with the staggered/offset rockers?
I realize they can use the LS items, but I would think that there isn't a huge aftermarket for headers for this swap. Then again, maybe there is with all the GEN III/IV engines so easily available. What I'm getting at, is GEN I/II exhaust won't work due to the change in the ports from O-OO-O to O-O-O-O.
I realize they can use the LS items, but I would think that there isn't a huge aftermarket for headers for this swap. Then again, maybe there is with all the GEN III/IV engines so easily available. What I'm getting at, is GEN I/II exhaust won't work due to the change in the ports from O-OO-O to O-O-O-O.
Yes, they have a new (one off) cam for the conversion they did. And I'm just thinking here...not sure...but if they are using the LS heads and intake...the LS headers may fit. Not sure if the 3 gen engine would place them in the bay any differently than the 4 gen engines.
__________________
95 Pontiac Formula- Stock engine with ATI Procharger, Moser 12 bolt w/4:30 gears, Rossler trans, Neil Chance 4000 stall, M/T ET streets, 10.914@ 121.90mph, 1.452 60ft. GMHTP November 2010 Feature Car. Check it out at:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/...ebird-formula/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abZ1z...ature=youtu.be
95 Pontiac Formula- Stock engine with ATI Procharger, Moser 12 bolt w/4:30 gears, Rossler trans, Neil Chance 4000 stall, M/T ET streets, 10.914@ 121.90mph, 1.452 60ft. GMHTP November 2010 Feature Car. Check it out at:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/...ebird-formula/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abZ1z...ature=youtu.be
04-08-2009, 10:19 PM
#92
TECH Apprentice
When I mentioned 4.125 bore as standard, his response was, "Oh, a 4.125" bore would be tiny compared to what Dart's considering".
I dont really see how they are planning to get it much bigger than that with the original bore spacing. IMO anything over a 4.185 is starting to ask for trouble. Its getting pretty thin between the cylinders at that point. I can see a 4.200 happening, but the 4.25 bore that it would take to make it 454 ci that was mentioned earlier isnt gonna happen. Not with stock bore spacing.
I dont really see how they are planning to get it much bigger than that with the original bore spacing. IMO anything over a 4.185 is starting to ask for trouble. Its getting pretty thin between the cylinders at that point. I can see a 4.200 happening, but the 4.25 bore that it would take to make it 454 ci that was mentioned earlier isnt gonna happen. Not with stock bore spacing.
04-09-2009, 09:27 AM
#95
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I'm sleeving a LT1 block right now, if this block is available it would be well worth the < $2000 price tag so you don't have to deal wth half filling and fitting a 4" crank. Hopefully it comes out and you can get a 220-235 cc head to feed it.
04-09-2009, 11:47 AM
#96
My extra block got dropped off last night with the front cover as well. It will be heading to dart for measurements.
To clear a few things up..... Those that posted about a 454, get that thought out of your heads
Think 427 or max 434.
Heads, you are all thinking you need these massive flowing heads. While a good set of heads will be needed, you are forgetting that with the increased bore you will unshroud the valves and increase flow. So now you have increased the flow of your heads and didn't even touch them
To clear a few things up..... Those that posted about a 454, get that thought out of your heads
Think 427 or max 434.
Heads, you are all thinking you need these massive flowing heads. While a good set of heads will be needed, you are forgetting that with the increased bore you will unshroud the valves and increase flow. So now you have increased the flow of your heads and didn't even touch them
04-09-2009, 12:37 PM
#98
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sweet! I thought this was going to be another pipe dream that never materialized but it sounds like dart is going to follow through with this. Im no where near getting into the bottom end yet but someday I will be and when that day comes I'll def buy 1!
04-09-2009, 12:58 PM
#99
My extra block got dropped off last night with the front cover as well. It will be heading to dart for measurements.
To clear a few things up..... Those that posted about a 454, get that thought out of your heads
Think 427 or max 434.
Heads, you are all thinking you need these massive flowing heads. While a good set of heads will be needed, you are forgetting that with the increased bore you will unshroud the valves and increase flow. So now you have increased the flow of your heads and didn't even touch them
To clear a few things up..... Those that posted about a 454, get that thought out of your heads
Think 427 or max 434.
Heads, you are all thinking you need these massive flowing heads. While a good set of heads will be needed, you are forgetting that with the increased bore you will unshroud the valves and increase flow. So now you have increased the flow of your heads and didn't even touch them
0.1 67.9 58.3
0.2 146.2 124
0.3 235 199
0.4 293 244
0.5 329 265
0.55 341 272
0.6 344 276
Flow numbers achieved on 4.125" bore
Tested @28" H20, @70*
Exhaust flowed with a 1 7/8" pipe
Intake
0.1 67
0.2 147
0.3 234
0.4 289
0.5 324
0.55 335
0.6 343
Intake flow on 4.030" bore.
The LT1 head market has needed to step up for a long time and some small steps are being taken, but they aren't any where near what they need to be. TFS has taken a couple good steps recently and I hope to see them continue to progress. I also like the fact that AFR uses 8mm valves in their heads and have one of the best heads out there right now for the LT1.
04-09-2009, 02:11 PM
#100
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Did anyone else notice in the SHP Brochure is says...
"...Designed for high-performance
and heavy-duty applications requiring up to 600 horsepower."
To me that sounds like the strength of a stock GM block. I know this is the SBC Brochure, but I wouldn't imagine many changes from it's bottom end to the LT1's.
I thought this would be rated to 1000-1500 HP?
"...Designed for high-performance
and heavy-duty applications requiring up to 600 horsepower."
To me that sounds like the strength of a stock GM block. I know this is the SBC Brochure, but I wouldn't imagine many changes from it's bottom end to the LT1's.
I thought this would be rated to 1000-1500 HP?