What is the best alternative intake manifold for LTx?
09-07-2010, 09:19 AM
#41
The elbow that was costing so much power in the comparison was a horrible Edlebrock low profile piece that had a much sharper, much thiner turn into the intake...it actually is under the flange and the air has to go UP then down into the intake.
09-07-2010, 04:44 PM
#43
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tpis intakes are priced at like $875 on their website, i would understand people not running them.. thats a stupid price for any kind of cast aluminum intake..
you can get a professional products efi high rise single plane for $200, and fuel rails for $100.. i would try it for the money..
you can get a professional products efi high rise single plane for $200, and fuel rails for $100.. i would try it for the money..
09-07-2010, 05:40 PM
#44
tpis intakes are priced at like $875 on their website, i would understand people not running them.. thats a stupid price for any kind of cast aluminum intake..
you can get a professional products efi high rise single plane for $200, and fuel rails for $100.. i would try it for the money..
you can get a professional products efi high rise single plane for $200, and fuel rails for $100.. i would try it for the money..
I geuss it depends if that several hundred dollars you come out "ahead" is worth notching apart your car/engine bay, buying/painting a new hood, amongst the other possible costs required to make a single plane work.
09-08-2010, 01:11 PM
#45
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
Yea, but many single planes require the use of an aftermarket hood, notching/fabbing/cutting of an existing hood, radiator support, cowl/removal of windshield wipers not to mention the fabrication on the intake itself to make most single planes work on an LT1...
I geuss it depends if that several hundred dollars you come out "ahead" is worth notching apart your car/engine bay, buying/painting a new hood, amongst the other possible costs required to make a single plane work.
I geuss it depends if that several hundred dollars you come out "ahead" is worth notching apart your car/engine bay, buying/painting a new hood, amongst the other possible costs required to make a single plane work.
A buddy of mine ran a HSR on his 383 with no fitment problems in his Caprice and ran mid 11's all day long at our club's annual drag meet at E-Town. It looked great under the hood. In fact it kind of looked stock.
Last edited by B'klyn9C1; 09-08-2010 at 02:28 PM. Reason: grammar
was off of my friends SuperStock LT1 race car.
09-08-2010, 02:05 PM
#47
That's assuming all of us here are running 4th Gen F-Bodies. Granted most of here on this forum are probably are but other GM fuel injected vehicle don't have this problem namely B-Bodies, 3rd Gen F-Bodies even 4th Gen Vettes to a certain extent.
A buddy of mine ran a HSR on his 383 with no fitment problems in his Caprice. It looked great under the hood.
A buddy of mine ran a HSR on his 383 with no fitment problems in his Caprice. It looked great under the hood.
LT1 owners who seriously mod their cars are rare enough, let alone ones who will go to the extent of needing a single plane intake, let alone the ones who run a motor like that in a caprice, impala, or roadmaster.
09-08-2010, 02:59 PM
#48
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
I didn't assume that everyone is running a 4th gen fbody, I just know that about 98% of people in this section run a 93-97 camaro/firebird. My statement is true for a mass majority of people who will read this.
LT1 owners who seriously mod their cars are rare enough, let alone ones who will go to the extent of needing a single plane intake, let alone the ones who run a motor like that in a caprice, impala, or roadmaster.
LT1 owners who seriously mod their cars are rare enough, let alone ones who will go to the extent of needing a single plane intake, let alone the ones who run a motor like that in a caprice, impala, or roadmaster.
It has been said more than once that the reason GM made the stock LT1 intake so low profile with short runners was more for the then still in development 4th Gen F-Body than for the 4th Gen Vette.
Most LT1 guys think that the LTx intake is the greatess thing since slice bread but isn't it's a engineering compromise and most engine builders will tell you as such. The plenum is way too small and the runners are to short. But since as you say 98% of the modded LT1's are in F-Bodies I think that the tight hood space influences the prevailing preferences.
09-08-2010, 05:43 PM
#49
Yeah you're right I know I'm part of that two percent. I'm just saying if you got the room under the hood and you are doing a serious build even from level of a 383 stroker or higher. Maybe you should think about using an alternative intake that gives you significantly bigger plenum and longer runners.
It has been said more than once that the reason GM made the stock LT1 intake so low profile with short runners was more for the then still in development 4th Gen F-Body than for the 4th Gen Vette.
Most LT1 guys think that the LTx intake is the greatess thing since slice bread but isn't it's a engineering compromise and most engine builders will tell you as such. The plenum is way too small and the runners are to short. But since as you say 98% of the modded LT1's are in F-Bodies I think that the tight hood space influences the prevailing preferences.
It has been said more than once that the reason GM made the stock LT1 intake so low profile with short runners was more for the then still in development 4th Gen F-Body than for the 4th Gen Vette.
Most LT1 guys think that the LTx intake is the greatess thing since slice bread but isn't it's a engineering compromise and most engine builders will tell you as such. The plenum is way too small and the runners are to short. But since as you say 98% of the modded LT1's are in F-Bodies I think that the tight hood space influences the prevailing preferences.
"Yea, but many single planes require the use of an aftermarket hood , notching/fabbing/cutting of an existing hood, radiator support, cowl/removal of windshield wipers not to mention the fabrication on the intake itself to make most single planes work on an LT1...unless you're running a B-Body or corvette-then the TPIS intake isn't worth the money...
For those folks running an f-body...
I geuss it depends if that several hundred dollars you come out "ahead" is worth notching apart your car/engine bay, buying/painting a new hood, amongst the other possible costs required to make a single plane work."
is that better?
09-09-2010, 01:49 AM
#51
OP not trying to steal this thread, but for the people running the 4150 throttle body and manifold, are you running a factory computer, is it possible? I'm asking this from a 93 speed density f-body point of view.
09-09-2010, 11:41 AM
#53
Probably. I would not consider that one. Wilson makes a nice cast elbow. Most NHRA Super Stock guys use his. Look at the floor, hope there is some kind of ramp inside.
As for the 4bl TB versus the elbow, last two cars I tuned both ways that converted both lost 15/20 rwhp. Evidently loss of plenum volume. Some cowel cutting & 2" spacer would help? I'm thinking so.
And, TA Kid, why would anybody use a Victor Jr over a Victor EFI? Or Super Vic if you know somebody that could actually aim the injector boses correctly? More to that right there than some guys seem to think.
I'm very skeptical of the power gains quoted on message boards of power gains. Makes me very skeptical especially of any company testing their own manifolds/elbows.
The LT1 Super Stock racers have seen near zero difference from their fabricated sheet metal intakes versus the single planes. The fabricated manifolds look trick, but I'll bet that Dave Layer LT1 intake shown here is less than a tenth of a second slower than my $3200.00 sheet metal Hogan intake, if any at all.
I'm having two Victor EFI manifolds drilled for LT1 heads this week (one is for a friend in Texas), then going to a cylinder head shop in Arizona next week for $1200.00 worth of welding & port work). I'm not convinced there is anything there, but have to know for sure. I'll let you guys know how it turns out. I have to use a stock TB in the stock location, Wilson elbow and adaptor. Just clears the cowell, I am not allowed to touch that either. Rules, rules!
Wanted to test them back-to-back on an engine dyno (it's never been on one), but recovery from surgery yesterday may put a kink in that. Wanted to go to the Winter Nationals in Pomona, CA 1st week in Feb but may not get the testing done by then. Shoulder was much worse than they thought when they got ib there. Getting old just sucks. Don't do it. I'm semi-retiring this week.
As for the 4bl TB versus the elbow, last two cars I tuned both ways that converted both lost 15/20 rwhp. Evidently loss of plenum volume. Some cowel cutting & 2" spacer would help? I'm thinking so.
And, TA Kid, why would anybody use a Victor Jr over a Victor EFI? Or Super Vic if you know somebody that could actually aim the injector boses correctly? More to that right there than some guys seem to think.
I'm very skeptical of the power gains quoted on message boards of power gains. Makes me very skeptical especially of any company testing their own manifolds/elbows.
The LT1 Super Stock racers have seen near zero difference from their fabricated sheet metal intakes versus the single planes. The fabricated manifolds look trick, but I'll bet that Dave Layer LT1 intake shown here is less than a tenth of a second slower than my $3200.00 sheet metal Hogan intake, if any at all.
I'm having two Victor EFI manifolds drilled for LT1 heads this week (one is for a friend in Texas), then going to a cylinder head shop in Arizona next week for $1200.00 worth of welding & port work). I'm not convinced there is anything there, but have to know for sure. I'll let you guys know how it turns out. I have to use a stock TB in the stock location, Wilson elbow and adaptor. Just clears the cowell, I am not allowed to touch that either. Rules, rules!
Wanted to test them back-to-back on an engine dyno (it's never been on one), but recovery from surgery yesterday may put a kink in that. Wanted to go to the Winter Nationals in Pomona, CA 1st week in Feb but may not get the testing done by then. Shoulder was much worse than they thought when they got ib there. Getting old just sucks. Don't do it. I'm semi-retiring this week.
09-09-2010, 12:22 PM
#55
[QUOTE=Ed Wright;13842886]
The LT1 Super Stock racers have seen near zero difference from their fabricated sheet metal intakes versus the single planes. The fabricated manifolds look trick, but I'll bet that Dave Layer LT1 intake shown here is less than a tenth of a second slower than my $3200.00 sheet metal Hogan intake, if any at all.
QUOTE]
I never knew Dave Layer did this intake, and yes my friend switched out to a Hogan sheet metal and did not pick up anything but more heatsoak. He is still dialing in this combo with the Hogan so I would not rule out any gains he has not picked up. Also Heads Up (Dave Layer) did his heads for him and they are unreal the amount of work into them. I would not be suprised that the hogan is not perfect match to the heads since Dave worked the Stock 93 intake and heads as a pair.
The LT1 Super Stock racers have seen near zero difference from their fabricated sheet metal intakes versus the single planes. The fabricated manifolds look trick, but I'll bet that Dave Layer LT1 intake shown here is less than a tenth of a second slower than my $3200.00 sheet metal Hogan intake, if any at all.
QUOTE]
I never knew Dave Layer did this intake, and yes my friend switched out to a Hogan sheet metal and did not pick up anything but more heatsoak. He is still dialing in this combo with the Hogan so I would not rule out any gains he has not picked up. Also Heads Up (Dave Layer) did his heads for him and they are unreal the amount of work into them. I would not be suprised that the hogan is not perfect match to the heads since Dave worked the Stock 93 intake and heads as a pair.
09-09-2010, 03:33 PM
#56
Actually that is a Victor EFI... not a Jr. That picture is of MY intake, not sure where you got the photo.
As for the elbow being "garbage" it made well over 1000hp, so while there may be better ones out there, it aint bad.
There is, it is actually rounded & is over 1/2 higher than the mounting flange, it is not a flat plate on the bottom. You can't see it because of the bolt stuck in there that was not tightened.
Last edited by Lonnies Performance; 09-09-2010 at 03:43 PM.
09-09-2010, 05:01 PM
#57
As for the 4bl TB versus the elbow, last two cars I tuned both ways that converted both lost 15/20 rwhp. Evidently loss of plenum volume. Some cowel cutting & 2" spacer would help? I'm thinking so.
And, TA Kid, why would anybody use a Victor Jr over a Victor EFI? Or Super Vic if you know somebody that could actually aim the injector boses correctly? More to that right there than some guys seem to think.
And, TA Kid, why would anybody use a Victor Jr over a Victor EFI? Or Super Vic if you know somebody that could actually aim the injector boses correctly? More to that right there than some guys seem to think.
If you don't mind Ed, can you PM me the shop you're using for the EFI conversions?
09-09-2010, 08:50 PM
#58
Ed, I am actually using a Super Vic on my setup right now. I decided to go with it over my LT4 intake because of the longer runners and more airflow (boosted) Heres some pretty good info from Larry M over on speedtalk http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=895 about the brightest head/intake guy I know.
I pulled the plenum walls back on my intake and opened the runner to my head CSA (didn't have to do much though). I have a pretty large aluminum elbow on it which is also modded to the opening of the plenum.
As far as the Victor Jr and Victor E theres no reason to go with the Jr, the E is a better manifold for most applications and is already setup for EFI.
Heres an interesting read on a manifold swap on a boosted motor.
http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/showthread.php?t=721895
Anyone remember Steven quinns modded LTX intake?
I pulled the plenum walls back on my intake and opened the runner to my head CSA (didn't have to do much though). I have a pretty large aluminum elbow on it which is also modded to the opening of the plenum.
As far as the Victor Jr and Victor E theres no reason to go with the Jr, the E is a better manifold for most applications and is already setup for EFI.
Heres an interesting read on a manifold swap on a boosted motor.
http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/showthread.php?t=721895
Anyone remember Steven quinns modded LTX intake?
09-09-2010, 11:47 PM
#59
Okay, is there a distributor option to ditch the opti in favor of an SBC one? like plug and play and reasonably priced? or would the optical sensor not play a part anymore? Also, do the 4bl TBs use the same style TPS?
09-10-2010, 07:02 PM
#60
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What ever became of the modded Holley Stealth Rams that GGPC was going to sell? Did this die? I wasn't in the lt1 world when this was being talked about, but saw an old thread on it. The thread just fizzled out with no new info.