TFS 21 degree heads and cam help
09-17-2009, 05:46 PM
#1
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lino Lakes, MN
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
TFS 21 degree heads and cam help Hi
This is my first post. Bought a 96 SS Camaro M6 a couple of months back and would like to add a little more to it. I have been reading here and other forums and have an idea of what I might like to do. I am thinking of the TFS 21 degree heads and Kooks LT headers, but not sure on cam. I am looking at the CC503 224/230 .536/.544 112 LSA, AI 218/226 .540/.540 112 LSA, AI226/234 .569/.570 110 LSA with 1.6 RR's, and a local speed shop custom ground 224/230 .573/.533 112 LSA with 1.6/1.5 RR's. The car is driven as a non daily street car but would like to be able to drive 2 to 3 hour trips etc. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Brad
P.S.
I am thinking of the buying the new heads (running as sold now and porting later) V's porting stock heads for future 396 build for car.
This is my first post. Bought a 96 SS Camaro M6 a couple of months back and would like to add a little more to it. I have been reading here and other forums and have an idea of what I might like to do. I am thinking of the TFS 21 degree heads and Kooks LT headers, but not sure on cam. I am looking at the CC503 224/230 .536/.544 112 LSA, AI 218/226 .540/.540 112 LSA, AI226/234 .569/.570 110 LSA with 1.6 RR's, and a local speed shop custom ground 224/230 .573/.533 112 LSA with 1.6/1.5 RR's. The car is driven as a non daily street car but would like to be able to drive 2 to 3 hour trips etc. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Brad
P.S.
I am thinking of the buying the new heads (running as sold now and porting later) V's porting stock heads for future 396 build for car.
Last edited by brad3579; 09-18-2009 at 11:33 AM.
09-17-2009, 06:21 PM
#3
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lino Lakes, MN
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pretty new to the car engine stuff. How streetable would the bigger AI cam be as far as driving on the highway at 60-65 at low rpm's say 1700.
Thanks
Brad
Thanks
Brad
Last edited by brad3579; 09-17-2009 at 08:31 PM.
09-17-2009, 06:57 PM
#5
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lino Lakes, MN
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was thinking of getting the TFS 21's as I am planning on building a 396 down the road and thought I could have the TFS heads ported by AI at that time as they look like they flow as much now as the AI 190 GM heads and could get better later.
09-17-2009, 07:53 PM
#6
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: colorado springs Elevation: 6035 ft
Posts: 1,053
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
True that! They should flow some impressive #'s when ported. I want to get in on the AI GP But wont have the funds unfortunately So I might be getting a set of trick flows as well and seeing how they with the hotcam and some 1.7 rockers
09-17-2009, 08:27 PM
#7
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lino Lakes, MN
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am looking at the stroker maybe 2 or 3 years down the road as I would like to put a few miles on the stock bottom, as it only has 17,000 miles right now.
Just trying to use as many parts as possible that can be re-used on the 396.
Thanks
Brad
Just trying to use as many parts as possible that can be re-used on the 396.
Thanks
Brad
Last edited by brad3579; 09-18-2009 at 08:12 AM.
Trending Topics
09-18-2009, 10:29 AM
#8
On the same bench, fixturing, etc. our CNC'd 190cc GM head is well above the TFS part at the same port size. However, it is not fair to compare an as cast head to a higher end CNC'd head. The as cast head will have good ports and bad ports due to core shift, and the CNC'd head will typically always be consistent. Additionally, without qualifying the port style, size, etc. the flow numbers are useless and really shouldn't come into play when shopping for heads. If you will have them ported in the future, the 21deg head is pretty nice. If you will not be putting $ into porting the TFS casting in the future, then you'll likely make more power with something like our CNC'd GM castings. Good luck with your project!
Last edited by Advanced Induction; 09-18-2009 at 10:29 AM. Reason: typo
09-18-2009, 11:31 AM
#10
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lino Lakes, MN
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Do you know what the flow of the stock 21 degree is @ 185 is on your bench and what you can make it go to @ maybe 215.
I am going to end up with a 396, thinking about the new Dart block when it comes out.
Would the 21 degree as stock be an ok fit for the 350 CI (with the smaller runners than buying heads big enough for the 396 and running them on the 350) until then.
Just thinking about if I can get more flow from the 21 degree later it might be worth it.
I am going to end up with a 396, thinking about the new Dart block when it comes out.
Would the 21 degree as stock be an ok fit for the 350 CI (with the smaller runners than buying heads big enough for the 396 and running them on the 350) until then.
Just thinking about if I can get more flow from the 21 degree later it might be worth it.
09-18-2009, 01:09 PM
#14
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: colorado springs Elevation: 6035 ft
Posts: 1,053
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Here is the flow comparison From AI Before and after They CNC'd Them. Looks to me that there is not much gained from .500 and under but from .500 to .700 there are great gains. Most People will Be under .600 lift so The gains from .600 to .700 are irrelevant. https://ls1tech.com/forums/10707537-post34.html
09-18-2009, 01:35 PM
#15
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lino Lakes, MN
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Would be nice if AI had the numbers there with the graph, but it looks like the the TFS numbers are really close to what they have advertised.
Is that AI CNC'ing leaving it at 185cc?
Thanks
Brad
Is that AI CNC'ing leaving it at 185cc?
Thanks
Brad
09-18-2009, 06:09 PM
#17
The benefit of the 21* heads out of the box is that they give you better performance then most as cast heads without costing you compression. Out of the box they are outperformed by quality ported stockers - but if you then port them too, watch out!
09-19-2009, 12:24 PM
#20
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lino Lakes, MN
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry Pyro
I must have had a brain fart.
My main question on the heads is would it be better to run these heads as stock on the 350 and then port them for the 396 instead of using GM ported heads.
My thought being that these may work very well with the stock 350 having the smaller ports, more velocity and good flow and then should be able to be ported better than the GM heads for the 396.
If I was to go with larger 200 cc GM ported heads right away would I not give up something when using them on the smaller cammed 350 because of less port velocity.
Thanks
Brad
I must have had a brain fart.
My main question on the heads is would it be better to run these heads as stock on the 350 and then port them for the 396 instead of using GM ported heads.
My thought being that these may work very well with the stock 350 having the smaller ports, more velocity and good flow and then should be able to be ported better than the GM heads for the 396.
If I was to go with larger 200 cc GM ported heads right away would I not give up something when using them on the smaller cammed 350 because of less port velocity.
Thanks
Brad