stock stall w/cam
10-30-2009, 10:08 PM
#1
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stock stall w/cam 383 with 236/244 comp cam. have stock 4l60e trans and converter w/ low miles. would like to get your opinion/experience with running a factory stall converter with a larger cam. i would like to run a nice converter obviously. but after my recent purchases i am already streching my budget. other than a neutrally balanced flexplate would i be able to run a factory stall with a cam of this size for a while? or would i have big issues with bogging from a stop with a low stall speed?
this trans isnt not trash (yet), so i would like to get some use out of it as it sits. as apposed to spending alot on a nice converter and wrecking it and the trans 6 months from now.
thanks for your input
this trans isnt not trash (yet), so i would like to get some use out of it as it sits. as apposed to spending alot on a nice converter and wrecking it and the trans 6 months from now.
thanks for your input
10-30-2009, 10:39 PM
#3
94ltz ran a cc306 w stock stall for a while. Car still ran good but came out of the hole really soft.
Dont know if he had any cam surge or other issues of that sort, maybe he'll chime in.
Short answer: yes you can do it. Just be prepared for it to be a little doggy and surge in parking lots a little, etc.
The tq of the 383 should help w the low end some though.
What LSA is that cam?
Dont know if he had any cam surge or other issues of that sort, maybe he'll chime in.
Short answer: yes you can do it. Just be prepared for it to be a little doggy and surge in parking lots a little, etc.
The tq of the 383 should help w the low end some though.
What LSA is that cam?
10-30-2009, 11:32 PM
#4
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112 lsa, so what is the converter solution? i just cant stomach throwing a vig or a yank into a trans that isnt worth half of the converter. there are cheeap no lock up alternatives. but i was told that overdrive trans with a non lock up converter at highway speed/rpm can burn up a trans due to lack of fluid movement. any suggestions?
thanks guys for earlier responses.
thanks guys for earlier responses.
10-31-2009, 12:29 AM
#5
112 isnt terribly tight, so might not be too bad.
Another friend of mine has ran TCI stalls and has never had a problem with them, and this is on 12.0 amd faster cars.
I know people on here dont like them, and I'm sure vig, yank, circle D, etc is better, but a tci would be better than nothing IMO.
Maybe try to find one of those cheap for now and do a better converter when you go all out on a trans build?
Another friend of mine has ran TCI stalls and has never had a problem with them, and this is on 12.0 amd faster cars.
I know people on here dont like them, and I'm sure vig, yank, circle D, etc is better, but a tci would be better than nothing IMO.
Maybe try to find one of those cheap for now and do a better converter when you go all out on a trans build?
10-31-2009, 05:28 AM
#6
Those folk you know happily using TCI, is it in front of a 4L60E? If not that input is meaningless.
I like Edge, since they don't have a billet cover they are a couple hundred dollars cheaper than Vig or Yank both of which are good converters, just the billet cover makes them expensive.
Far as drivability with the stock stall, if the compression and cam specs are right for power and making good cylinder pressure down low I would expect to have low rpm knock retard issues. Might be able to tune it with conservative advance and bandaid it. If the cam is basic off the shelf stuff it might not be a concern. You can try it just monitor it.
I like Edge, since they don't have a billet cover they are a couple hundred dollars cheaper than Vig or Yank both of which are good converters, just the billet cover makes them expensive.
Far as drivability with the stock stall, if the compression and cam specs are right for power and making good cylinder pressure down low I would expect to have low rpm knock retard issues. Might be able to tune it with conservative advance and bandaid it. If the cam is basic off the shelf stuff it might not be a concern. You can try it just monitor it.
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10-31-2009, 12:39 PM
#8
I once did things ***-backwards and did a cam swap before a stall and that was a bit of a mistake. Cam wasn't even anything crazy just a 224/230 on a 112lsa. The car was my DD so I had to drive it like that for awhile which was pretty unpleasant. Serious loss of brake vacuum, pulling on the brakes at lights (needed to put the car in neutral at lights), some surging here and there. It can definetly be done but once you get a stall you will be much happier!
10-31-2009, 12:49 PM
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The thing I dont understand is that my 69 Chevelle with a 355, 2,000 stall has a much bigger cam than my hotcammed LT1 and it drives and idles perfect but the LT1 surges when slowing down and at stoplights for a second. And when first taking off.
10-31-2009, 01:09 PM
#12
Like gregrob said i ran a CC306 with a stock stall, there was some surge down low till you hit around 2,800 and also like gregrob said the car launched soft which was nice to the ten bolt but after switching to a fuddle 3400 it's night and day.. Honestly i wouldn't be running a cheap tci on a 4L60E due to having sloppy clearances which will cause your tranny to over heat and bye bye tranny. Look around here in the for sale section and try to pick up around a 3,200-3,600 stall from a good company like Circle d, vig, fuddle, etc like i did for half the price of a new one with low miles.
10-31-2009, 01:50 PM
#13
I once did things ***-backwards and did a cam swap before a stall and that was a bit of a mistake. Cam wasn't even anything crazy just a 224/230 on a 112lsa. The car was my DD so I had to drive it like that for awhile which was pretty unpleasant. Serious loss of brake vacuum, pulling on the brakes at lights (needed to put the car in neutral at lights), some surging here and there. It can definetly be done but once you get a stall you will be much happier!
10-31-2009, 07:33 PM
#15
moderate z28
Running rich can stop some surge, easy to make a carb rich at low speeds, harder to do so with the fuel injection and the O2s trying to compensate. Can be tuned open loop BUT you really should have a stall which will mask it as well.
Plus with a carb you are setting the timing with a light and tinkering if it isn't just right. A LT1 tuner takes a stab at timing assuming there is no tolerance stacking skewing things a little and then you are leaving it, not popping the hood and tweaking.
I did a zz4 cam 208/221 112 .474/.510 before I did a stall, gears or headers, gained almost noting, BUT then as I gave it the stall gear and headers each made a HUGE difference. At that time it was 2800/3.42 I put in and still that made a big differnce.
Running rich can stop some surge, easy to make a carb rich at low speeds, harder to do so with the fuel injection and the O2s trying to compensate. Can be tuned open loop BUT you really should have a stall which will mask it as well.
Plus with a carb you are setting the timing with a light and tinkering if it isn't just right. A LT1 tuner takes a stab at timing assuming there is no tolerance stacking skewing things a little and then you are leaving it, not popping the hood and tweaking.
I did a zz4 cam 208/221 112 .474/.510 before I did a stall, gears or headers, gained almost noting, BUT then as I gave it the stall gear and headers each made a HUGE difference. At that time it was 2800/3.42 I put in and still that made a big differnce.
11-01-2009, 12:15 AM
#16
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thanks for all the quick responses. i love this forum.
tryin to get this thing together for the winter. just dont want to put much money into this trans. i know this converter is kind of the opposite of what some people have said to do, but take a look and give your opinion:http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/4L60E...Q5fAccessories
tryin to get this thing together for the winter. just dont want to put much money into this trans. i know this converter is kind of the opposite of what some people have said to do, but take a look and give your opinion:http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/4L60E...Q5fAccessories
11-01-2009, 11:07 AM
#17
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my vig 3400 and the 3.42's were the best mods i've ever done! and the cam of course. but def throw a good converter on that thing and tune it and you'll idle perfect with no driveability issues. my car idles perfect in gear and a/c on with my comp xe 224/226 .575 112 lsa cam and the MadZ28 tune
