Clutch problems!
12-17-2009, 05:19 PM
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Clutch problems! Looking for any advice!
Car: 1995 Z28 M6 w/spec stage 2, B&M short throw
What happened:
- Revved up, slipped the clutch, and launched
- Lost traction, finally caught at the top of 1st and took off. Nothing new or weird
- Pushed in the clutch to shift to second. Good pressure, but it doesn't allow me to go into 2nd.
- No pops, squeals, squeaks, loss of pressure, etc.
Pedal feels normal and tranny shifts great if I gear match. If it's in neutral and the car is on, I can put pressure on the shifter towards the first position and it'll creep forward, if I let up, it stops moving. It won't go into gear unless the car is off, even with the clutch pedal pressed in.
Car: 1995 Z28 M6 w/spec stage 2, B&M short throw
What happened:
- Revved up, slipped the clutch, and launched
- Lost traction, finally caught at the top of 1st and took off. Nothing new or weird
- Pushed in the clutch to shift to second. Good pressure, but it doesn't allow me to go into 2nd.
- No pops, squeals, squeaks, loss of pressure, etc.
Pedal feels normal and tranny shifts great if I gear match. If it's in neutral and the car is on, I can put pressure on the shifter towards the first position and it'll creep forward, if I let up, it stops moving. It won't go into gear unless the car is off, even with the clutch pedal pressed in.
12-18-2009, 01:44 PM
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What do you mean moving both ways? It should move around a little bit as it is cliped into the throwout bearing but should be parallel with the bell housing if you try to push it in twards the front of the car.
12-19-2009, 04:24 PM
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Hydraulics are in great shape. No problems there, still have the problem. This happened on my 1-2 shift, I was able to get it out of gear (not sure if it worked taking it out of first, or if I yanked it out... but by the time I was in neutral and going to 2nd, it wouldn't)
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12-19-2009, 04:55 PM
#10
If the car is running wil it go into any gear at all? Mine did this awhile back and the disc split and spread out against the pressure plate. Basicly the pedal worked but it was stuck in gear because the destroyed disc was spread out rubbing on the pressure plate and keping the tranny spinning. The reason you car will move a little when you try to push it into gear is because the syncros are trying the syncronise the speed of the tranny and engine, so it can get into gear, so dont do that at all, its hard on them. Just take it apart, i bet your disc is split too from the sound of it.
12-19-2009, 04:58 PM
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If the car is running wil it go into any gear at all? Mine did this awhile back and the disc split and spread out against the pressure plate. Basicly the pedal worked but it was stuck in gear because the destroyed disc was spread out rubbing on the pressure plate and keping the tranny spinning. The reason you car will move a little when you try to push it into gear is because the syncros are trying the syncronise the speed of the tranny and engine, so it can get into gear, so dont do that at all, its hard on them. Just take it apart, i bet your disc is split too from the sound of it.
If the car is running it will NOT go into gear. If the car is off, it WILL go into gear. If I gear match while the car is running, it WILL go into gear.
12-19-2009, 04:58 PM
#12
I wouldent think so? I seriously takes like 45 mins to pull the tranny, just do it. Just remember to pull the tranny, then the bellhousing lol. You probly know this already.
12-19-2009, 05:03 PM
#13
Yes exactly what i thought, your disc is split and stuck against the pressure plate. So the clutch will feel fine because its still moving the pressure plate as it should, but the disc is always in contact with the pressure plate because it has split and grown in diameter, so the disc is contacting the pressure plate around the outer diameter instead of the face of the disc. Basically the clutch cant stop the tranny from spinning because its permanantly engaged and unable to disengage, youll understand when you get it out.
12-19-2009, 05:06 PM
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Yes exactly what i thought, your disc is split and stuck against the pressure plate. So the clutch will feel fine because its still moving the pressure plate as it should, but the disc is always in contact with the pressure plate because it has split and grown in diameter, so the disc is contacting the pressure plate around the outer diameter instead of the face of the disc. Basically the clutch cant stop the tranny from spinning because its permanantly engaged and unable to disengage, youll understand when you get it out.
12-19-2009, 05:28 PM
#15
I really doubt its a spec stage 2, with your mods i dont know how it could break.
12-19-2009, 10:58 PM
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cgEvan, if the engine is idling while the trans is in neutral and you push in the clutch, begin to push the shifter into first gear, and the car starts creeping forward this means that your clutch is not fully disengaging. First I'd try to figure out why before I go calling Spec.
93TAJ.C. said that the friction disk may have split (if it was defective I'm assuming), and that is a very possible cause. But if I were you I'd check and make sure your hydraulics are working properly first, like what nik1703 said. Just because there's no fluid leaking from the master or slave doesn't mean there's no internal leak in one of the two. I can say from experience that I've had this problem-- even though my pedal felt normal I ended up having a faulty master cylinder.
The slaves cheap and easy to replace, so maybe try that first. If thats not it move on to the master, which is a bit more expensive and tricky to replace. Also make sure you bleed the system whenever you crack it open.
As for the clutchfork, even when its fully engaged its gonna have some play in it. You can move the arm up and down a tiny bit and the other ends of it will just tap the surface of the throwout bearing. There will be some forwards to backwards play too-- you'll be able to pull it backwards a tiny bit, but when you push it forwards itll go freely until the fork tips press against the collar of the throwout bearing. Then at that point you can't push it any furthur simply because your fingers aren't nearly powerful as the hyraulics are.
I doubt the clutchfork is actually loose. By the way our clutches are setup, if the bolt that holds the clutchfork to its pivotpoint on the transmission were loose the hydraulics would push the clutchfork so far that it would scrape against the spinning pressure plate. This would give you disengagement problems like youre having, but it would also make a ridiculously loud screeching noise while the engines running.
Hope that helped and good luck.
93TAJ.C. said that the friction disk may have split (if it was defective I'm assuming), and that is a very possible cause. But if I were you I'd check and make sure your hydraulics are working properly first, like what nik1703 said. Just because there's no fluid leaking from the master or slave doesn't mean there's no internal leak in one of the two. I can say from experience that I've had this problem-- even though my pedal felt normal I ended up having a faulty master cylinder.
The slaves cheap and easy to replace, so maybe try that first. If thats not it move on to the master, which is a bit more expensive and tricky to replace. Also make sure you bleed the system whenever you crack it open.
As for the clutchfork, even when its fully engaged its gonna have some play in it. You can move the arm up and down a tiny bit and the other ends of it will just tap the surface of the throwout bearing. There will be some forwards to backwards play too-- you'll be able to pull it backwards a tiny bit, but when you push it forwards itll go freely until the fork tips press against the collar of the throwout bearing. Then at that point you can't push it any furthur simply because your fingers aren't nearly powerful as the hyraulics are.
I doubt the clutchfork is actually loose. By the way our clutches are setup, if the bolt that holds the clutchfork to its pivotpoint on the transmission were loose the hydraulics would push the clutchfork so far that it would scrape against the spinning pressure plate. This would give you disengagement problems like youre having, but it would also make a ridiculously loud screeching noise while the engines running.
Hope that helped and good luck.
12-20-2009, 02:27 AM
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cgEvan, if the engine is idling while the trans is in neutral and you push in the clutch, begin to push the shifter into first gear, and the car starts creeping forward this means that your clutch is not fully disengaging. First I'd try to figure out why before I go calling Spec.
93TAJ.C. said that the friction disk may have split (if it was defective I'm assuming), and that is a very possible cause. But if I were you I'd check and make sure your hydraulics are working properly first, like what nik1703 said. Just because there's no fluid leaking from the master or slave doesn't mean there's no internal leak in one of the two. I can say from experience that I've had this problem-- even though my pedal felt normal I ended up having a faulty master cylinder.
93TAJ.C. said that the friction disk may have split (if it was defective I'm assuming), and that is a very possible cause. But if I were you I'd check and make sure your hydraulics are working properly first, like what nik1703 said. Just because there's no fluid leaking from the master or slave doesn't mean there's no internal leak in one of the two. I can say from experience that I've had this problem-- even though my pedal felt normal I ended up having a faulty master cylinder.
As for the clutchfork, even when its fully engaged its gonna have some play in it. You can move the arm up and down a tiny bit and the other ends of it will just tap the surface of the throwout bearing. There will be some forwards to backwards play too-- you'll be able to pull it backwards a tiny bit, but when you push it forwards itll go freely until the fork tips press against the collar of the throwout bearing. Then at that point you can't push it any furthur simply because your fingers aren't nearly powerful as the hyraulics are.
I doubt the clutchfork is actually loose. By the way our clutches are setup, if the bolt that holds the clutchfork to its pivotpoint on the transmission were loose the hydraulics would push the clutchfork so far that it would scrape against the spinning pressure plate. This would give you disengagement problems like youre having, but it would also make a ridiculously loud screeching noise while the engines running.
Hope that helped and good luck.
Hope that helped and good luck.
Is there a way to check this without pulling the tranny? Like I said, it's extremely freely moving, so I kinda think this might have something to do with it. It's to the point where I have to hold everything in place while I put it together. There aren't any noises. There weren't any noises before, after, or during the time it broke. And it went from everything perfect, to just absolutely nothing.
Sorry if I'm going in circle, just a little frustrated with the car. Thanks for all your help!