Swapping my Vortech for N2O...
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Swapping my Vortech for N2O... What's up everybody.
I've been running a supercharger setup on my LT1 for a while now, Vortech S-Trim 9PSI, with fully forged internals- 8.8:1 pistons, crank, c-rods, clevite bearings, etc... fuel pump and injectors are upgraded. i'm running a 214/222 .488/.509 112LSA crane cam, HI-6S ignition, full exhaust, etc
I was wondering, if I were to take the blower off and sell that and the tubing, buy a CAI (and change belts, etc), what else would I need to change to run N2O? How high of a shot would my blower-built internals be able to handle? I don't know much about nitrous, but I'm pretty sure that a higher compression ratio would be better... correct?
If I can get enough money out of that, I'd like to swap my edelbroch midlengths for some hooker LTs, a higher stall TC, heads, and an N2O system.
Help me out a lil, add some thoughts on what else I'd wanna change. Thanks for the feedback.
I've been running a supercharger setup on my LT1 for a while now, Vortech S-Trim 9PSI, with fully forged internals- 8.8:1 pistons, crank, c-rods, clevite bearings, etc... fuel pump and injectors are upgraded. i'm running a 214/222 .488/.509 112LSA crane cam, HI-6S ignition, full exhaust, etc
I was wondering, if I were to take the blower off and sell that and the tubing, buy a CAI (and change belts, etc), what else would I need to change to run N2O? How high of a shot would my blower-built internals be able to handle? I don't know much about nitrous, but I'm pretty sure that a higher compression ratio would be better... correct?
If I can get enough money out of that, I'd like to swap my edelbroch midlengths for some hooker LTs, a higher stall TC, heads, and an N2O system.
Help me out a lil, add some thoughts on what else I'd wanna change. Thanks for the feedback.
Last edited by enisguy; Mar 30, 2004 at 12:45 PM.
On The Tree
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From: DE
you'll be fine with that compression,plus it helps to keep cylinder pressure down and less chance of pushing out a head gasket. remember you are only 1 point off from stock,so i dont see a drastic difference.
i replied on camaroz28,and just too lazy to retype it
any questions feel free to ask.
i replied on camaroz28,and just too lazy to retype it
any questions feel free to ask.
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From: NYC metro area
Originally Posted by aram
Since your all setup for the vortech, why not stick with it? With a little time on the dyno that thing should fly at 9 psi! Ditch those shorties though.
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Originally Posted by RacinLT1
you'll be fine with that compression,plus it helps to keep cylinder pressure down and less chance of pushing out a head gasket. remember you are only 1 point off from stock,so i dont see a drastic difference.
i replied on camaroz28,and just too lazy to retype it
any questions feel free to ask.
i replied on camaroz28,and just too lazy to retype it
any questions feel free to ask.
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SM- Don't trade your blower for nitrous. That's going in the wrong direction. Nitrous is great at the track, but that's it. You want power that's there all the time. There are a million nitrous LT1's out there. Not too many are blown with forged internals. You can make that thing a beast the way it sits. Maybe spray a 50shot of top of the blower. Just take it and have it tuned. I honestly believe you'd be doing yourself a dis-service by getting rid of the Vortech.
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Cause I really need a car that's more of a daily driver, and I want 10s. Right now I'm probably in 12s, and there's no way to swap pullies safely without intercooling first, and I don't have the money for a good intercooler. Plus, I don't think I have the technical knowledge necesary to tune F/I. I'll probably stay N/A for a little bit first before I go n2o.
Honestly if you can't afford the intercooler then I wouldn't try and stretch every last penny out to get your car into the 10's. That's when things start happening, and next thing you know you have no car!
Keep the s-trim and save up for an intercooler - you can pick up an ATI 3-core for <500 bucks if you look around - just do a frount mount with that and you are good to go.
Chris
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Probably the main reason I'd swap out the Vortech for N/A for the time being would be because of my lack of ability to tune a forced induction setup... I jumped from a V6 to an FI LT1, it was a huge jump and I honestly don't think that I'm ready for it. When I'm talking about a big shot of n2o, I mean a while from now. I'd probably run a baseline NX kit with 150 jets for a while, building up components like bottle, warmer, remote opener, purge valves, etc etc etc..
Basically what I'm saying is, the number one reason for this is because of my lack of ability. Number 2 would be money.
I know, and that's what upsets me the most about the decision 
Yes, that's why I'd go N/A for a while before n2o. I've never even installed a set of headers in my life, and I'm attempting to tune an F/I system... I skipped a lot of steps that should be mandatory for anybody with an F/I car, and I wanna go back and replace some parts on my car that the guy before me skimped on, and do a better job than he did. Maybe there is some more F/I in the future of the LT1, but in the form of a TT 
At least, those are my long term plans.
Thanks for all the comments, guys
Basically what I'm saying is, the number one reason for this is because of my lack of ability. Number 2 would be money.
Originally Posted by unit213
There are a million nitrous LT1's out there. Not too many are blown with forged internals.
Originally Posted by ChrisB
Honestly if you can't afford the intercooler then I wouldn't try and stretch every last penny out to get your car into the 10's. That's when things start happening, and next thing you know you have no car!
At least, those are my long term plans.Thanks for all the comments, guys
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I'm with unit and ChrisB on this one. I'd keep your current set up and add the aftercooler. I'm running the aftercooled kit at 9 PSI on my '01 with zero problems. The car could be a daily driver.
The cost of adding the intercooler will be far less than a good and complete N2O set up.
The cost of adding the intercooler will be far less than a good and complete N2O set up.
if you don't know what you are doing, just pull the vortech out for now and run it NA for a while.. running nitrous would be a bad idea if you can't even install a set of headers imho.
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From: Raleigh, NC
Keep the Vortech, get a set of good heads with big chambers in order to get the compression ration down a bit more (assuming you are still running stock heads). Get a smaller blower pulley to make in the range of 12psi, (you'll prolly need at least 50# injectors) and take it to the dyno and have it tuned. I would wager that there are plenty of good dyno tuners within a days' round trip of you. Having a good tuner that knows how to wite good programs (not mail-order stuff) makes all the difference in the world with any combo, not just FI. Second Street Speed in Pennsylvania comes to mind.
A well tuned 355 with good heads and a decent cam running 12# of boost (even without an aftercooler) will easily make ~550rwhp through an automatic like yours. Thats plenty to acheive your goal of 10's.
IMO, you might wanna swap that peanut cam out of there for something with a little more lift. Something along the lines of an XE224/236 on a 114 LSA would work very well.
Sounds expensive doesnt it? Well, to get similar power numbers out of an N20 setup on your motor would probably cost about the same, if it were acheivable, cosidering you already have the Vortech. Nitrous works best with lots of compression and a cam with lots of exhaust duration and some negative overlap. Also, nitrous loves lots of compression. The motor you have in that car is much better suited to boost than spray IMO.
FWIW, if you cant afford heads just yet, 10's are probably still acheivable. Buddy of mine here in NC has a 9.0:1 355 with STOCK heads, a 224/236 cam and an ATI P1SC running 8# that makes around 470 rwhp and runs 11.3's at 121 all day long.
A well tuned 355 with good heads and a decent cam running 12# of boost (even without an aftercooler) will easily make ~550rwhp through an automatic like yours. Thats plenty to acheive your goal of 10's.
IMO, you might wanna swap that peanut cam out of there for something with a little more lift. Something along the lines of an XE224/236 on a 114 LSA would work very well.
Sounds expensive doesnt it? Well, to get similar power numbers out of an N20 setup on your motor would probably cost about the same, if it were acheivable, cosidering you already have the Vortech. Nitrous works best with lots of compression and a cam with lots of exhaust duration and some negative overlap. Also, nitrous loves lots of compression. The motor you have in that car is much better suited to boost than spray IMO.
FWIW, if you cant afford heads just yet, 10's are probably still acheivable. Buddy of mine here in NC has a 9.0:1 355 with STOCK heads, a 224/236 cam and an ATI P1SC running 8# that makes around 470 rwhp and runs 11.3's at 121 all day long.
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Originally Posted by aram
if you don't know what you are doing, just pull the vortech out for now and run it NA for a while.. running nitrous would be a bad idea if you can't even install a set of headers imho.
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Originally Posted by HellTeeOne
Keep the Vortech, get a set of good heads with big chambers in order to get the compression ration down a bit more (assuming you are still running stock heads). Get a smaller blower pulley to make in the range of 12psi, (you'll prolly need at least 50# injectors) and take it to the dyno and have it tuned. I would wager that there are plenty of good dyno tuners within a days' round trip of you. Having a good tuner that knows how to wite good programs (not mail-order stuff) makes all the difference in the world with any combo, not just FI. Second Street Speed in Pennsylvania comes to mind.
A well tuned 355 with good heads and a decent cam running 12# of boost (even without an aftercooler) will easily make ~550rwhp through an automatic like yours. Thats plenty to acheive your goal of 10's.
IMO, you might wanna swap that peanut cam out of there for something with a little more lift. Something along the lines of an XE224/236 on a 114 LSA would work very well.
Sounds expensive doesnt it? Well, to get similar power numbers out of an N20 setup on your motor would probably cost about the same, if it were acheivable, cosidering you already have the Vortech. Nitrous works best with lots of compression and a cam with lots of exhaust duration and some negative overlap. Also, nitrous loves lots of compression. The motor you have in that car is much better suited to boost than spray IMO.
FWIW, if you cant afford heads just yet, 10's are probably still acheivable. Buddy of mine here in NC has a 9.0:1 355 with STOCK heads, a 224/236 cam and an ATI P1SC running 8# that makes around 470 rwhp and runs 11.3's at 121 all day long.
A well tuned 355 with good heads and a decent cam running 12# of boost (even without an aftercooler) will easily make ~550rwhp through an automatic like yours. Thats plenty to acheive your goal of 10's.
IMO, you might wanna swap that peanut cam out of there for something with a little more lift. Something along the lines of an XE224/236 on a 114 LSA would work very well.
Sounds expensive doesnt it? Well, to get similar power numbers out of an N20 setup on your motor would probably cost about the same, if it were acheivable, cosidering you already have the Vortech. Nitrous works best with lots of compression and a cam with lots of exhaust duration and some negative overlap. Also, nitrous loves lots of compression. The motor you have in that car is much better suited to boost than spray IMO.
FWIW, if you cant afford heads just yet, 10's are probably still acheivable. Buddy of mine here in NC has a 9.0:1 355 with STOCK heads, a 224/236 cam and an ATI P1SC running 8# that makes around 470 rwhp and runs 11.3's at 121 all day long.
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Keep the cam - I am running a 214/224 116lsa comp blower cam - for an s-trim this is a killer combination.
Richard Krause made over 600rwhp with a 214/224 114 cam with 7"/2.85" blower combo, INTMD8 on this board made 634rwhp with a 214/224 (I believe, could have been slightly smaller on the exhaust) and I think a 7"/2.75" blower setup.
S-trimmed maxxed out should bigve you around 14lbs of boost on your motor and over 600rwhp with proper tuning - if the heads are unported you may have them worked on at some point - otherwise, just get an intercooler and pulley up. If you just don't want to do an intercooler you can always do water/alky injection.
Really not a good idea to go to much bigger with your blower - you will just start blowing intake out the exhaust and not make much more if any power. LJ ran 9's @ 139mph with his s-trim - through a TH400!
Richard Krause made over 600rwhp with a 214/224 114 cam with 7"/2.85" blower combo, INTMD8 on this board made 634rwhp with a 214/224 (I believe, could have been slightly smaller on the exhaust) and I think a 7"/2.75" blower setup.
S-trimmed maxxed out should bigve you around 14lbs of boost on your motor and over 600rwhp with proper tuning - if the heads are unported you may have them worked on at some point - otherwise, just get an intercooler and pulley up. If you just don't want to do an intercooler you can always do water/alky injection.
Really not a good idea to go to much bigger with your blower - you will just start blowing intake out the exhaust and not make much more if any power. LJ ran 9's @ 139mph with his s-trim - through a TH400!
Originally Posted by Super Mario
didn't say i can't, just said i never have. dont mistake for a car moron...
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Originally Posted by ChrisB
Keep the cam - I am running a 214/224 116lsa comp blower cam - for an s-trim this is a killer combination.
Richard Krause made over 600rwhp with a 214/224 114 cam with 7"/2.85" blower combo, INTMD8 on this board made 634rwhp with a 214/224 (I believe, could have been slightly smaller on the exhaust) and I think a 7"/2.75" blower setup.
S-trimmed maxxed out should bigve you around 14lbs of boost on your motor and over 600rwhp with proper tuning - if the heads are unported you may have them worked on at some point - otherwise, just get an intercooler and pulley up. If you just don't want to do an intercooler you can always do water/alky injection.
Really not a good idea to go to much bigger with your blower - you will just start blowing intake out the exhaust and not make much more if any power. LJ ran 9's @ 139mph with his s-trim - through a TH400!
Richard Krause made over 600rwhp with a 214/224 114 cam with 7"/2.85" blower combo, INTMD8 on this board made 634rwhp with a 214/224 (I believe, could have been slightly smaller on the exhaust) and I think a 7"/2.75" blower setup.
S-trimmed maxxed out should bigve you around 14lbs of boost on your motor and over 600rwhp with proper tuning - if the heads are unported you may have them worked on at some point - otherwise, just get an intercooler and pulley up. If you just don't want to do an intercooler you can always do water/alky injection.
Really not a good idea to go to much bigger with your blower - you will just start blowing intake out the exhaust and not make much more if any power. LJ ran 9's @ 139mph with his s-trim - through a TH400!
I've always thought the lsa on my cam was a little low... it's 112*, what is your redline set at right now?
Last edited by Super Mario; Jan 12, 2004 at 03:43 PM.
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Originally Posted by aram
Well, if you're not a car moron then why don't you just get your setup working correctly.. everything has been done for you it seems like. Put a decent exhaust setup (full length headers at least) and drop if off to have it dyno tuned at a decent shop and you are done. You could run it without any kind of intercooler and as long as you run good gas and have a good tune it should be fine.
I posted in here to get advice on the best route to 10s, more or less. I wanted to know if it was worth selling the blower and going down the N/A road with nitrous instead of staying F/I. People like Chris, Hellteeone, and Unit have given me lots of helpful advice on the matter, and I've decided to stay F/I for now. You, on the other hand, came in and took a shot at me while providing no helpful advice whatsoever.
Let's take a look at the advice you've given me:
1) Dyno tune her
2) Do a full length header swap
My answer for that is NO ****.
Thanks for your help
Last edited by Super Mario; Jan 12, 2004 at 03:44 PM.
Originally Posted by Super Mario
Listen buddy, money is a little short around here. Maybe your parents are rich or something, but I've gotta pay gas, insurance, and payments by myself from my Shop-Rite salary ($8.95 an hour). I don't have a ******' G to drop on an intercooler or heads. I've got a whopping 380 dollars in my checkin account right now. If I had the money, don't you think I'd be little bit quicker than I am right now?
I posted in here to get advice on the best route to 10s, more or less. I wanted to know if it was worth selling the blower and going down the N/A road with nitrous instead of staying F/I. People like Chris, Hellteeone, and Unit have given me lots of helpful advice on the matter, and I've decided to stay F/I for now. You, on the other hand, came in and took a shot at me while providing no helpful advice whatsoever.
Let's take a look at the advice you've given me:
1) Dyno tune her
2) Do a full length header swap
My answer for that is NO ****.
Thanks for your help
I posted in here to get advice on the best route to 10s, more or less. I wanted to know if it was worth selling the blower and going down the N/A road with nitrous instead of staying F/I. People like Chris, Hellteeone, and Unit have given me lots of helpful advice on the matter, and I've decided to stay F/I for now. You, on the other hand, came in and took a shot at me while providing no helpful advice whatsoever.
Let's take a look at the advice you've given me:
1) Dyno tune her
2) Do a full length header swap
My answer for that is NO ****.
Thanks for your help
I guess it is possible but you would have to know a lot more about what you are doing then you do. Let me know when you get there.
You really want to run 10's on the cheap? 1. Sell Blower
2. Buy Beater
3. Buy a cheap n2o setup
4. Buy wheels/tires/headers/converter/whatever
5. gut the car or just swap everything into a gutted thirdgen
6. go racing and hope they don't notice that you don't have most of the safety equipment needed
7. pray nothing breaks
My advice for now.. sell the blower on ebay, keep the 2K and be able to afford gas/insurance and optisparks and worry about "running 10's" later.
And what was wrong with my original advice.. ? I didn't see any part about how you needed advice on how to run 10's with what you have now and $300. Maybe I missed it in the original post.
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Originally Posted by ChrisB
Keep the cam - I am running a 214/224 116lsa comp blower cam - for an s-trim this is a killer combination
I beleive that Richard Krause is running some high lift variation of the 224/236 cam on his new F1 setup. Not sure about that though.
The water/alky injection works best on a blower setup where the blower is pretty much maxed out to start with IMO. At 9# he is not spinning the blower really hard and creating a lot of heat, therefore he may not see a whole lotta gains. A few months back we tried a meth/water setup onmy buddy's Mustang. He was running a Vortech t trim on a stock shortblock heads/cam/intake 5.0, making 10# (around 500rwhp). Since a T-trim is working pretty efficient at 10# to start with, he did not see much of a gain at all with the alky. Actually, on a few pulls, it lost power. Hmmm, maybe FMU's and alky dont work well together, since the FMU makes it rich up top to begin with.....
It's really easy to run too much water/meth and lose power also. That could have been where my buddy and I made a mistake with it. Oh well, live and learn as always, he swapped a lil bitty Powerdyne on that car now (T-trim went on his other car)...maybe we'll try shooting just water into it now with an FMU and see what it does...either that or spin that Powerdyne really hard to make close to 10#, **** can the FMU, and use water and alky...
Last edited by HellTeeOne; Jan 12, 2004 at 04:31 PM.
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trade ya I was looking into buying charger, but if you need a Nitrous kit, I have one. I also have a set of Hooker LT. I dont need them I already have another set. I also have other things.