Running very rich
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From: Milledgeville, GA
Running very rich Any advice on chasing down a rich condition?
I checked FP and it was 36 key on. Drops when you switch key off.
36 at idle & climbs to about 41 when rev'd to 2-3k rpm in neutral.
FPR is an adjustable aeromotive, but that seems fine.
I recently made some changes PCM wise.
Car is a 97 M6 and I swapped to a 95 M6 PCM (stock tune) and OBD1 knock module at same time. I also installed an EWP and new temp send unit at the same time. The coolant temp sensor was in the water pump housing when I bought it (used). I still have my old one and a new one I could install.
Before I swapped PCM's, I had a Bank 1 Sensor 1 oxygen sensor code, so I installed a new one right after swapping to OBD1.
Anyway, I have a SES light and the car runs very rich. I can't say what AFR, but I can smell the gas pretty strong.
The car has several bolt ons, but is internally stock including stock injectors.
I currently don't have anyway of reading the PCM and telling what codes are being thrown. I downloaded Freescan. If I buy the OBD1 cable with the OBD2 end (that was standard in 95) is that all I need to read codes and data log?
What all can cause a rich condition? I'm thinking FPR, o2's, Coolant Temp Sensor, MAF, MAP ??, anything else I'm missing or just wrong about??
As always....any and all help is appreciated.
I checked FP and it was 36 key on. Drops when you switch key off.
36 at idle & climbs to about 41 when rev'd to 2-3k rpm in neutral.
FPR is an adjustable aeromotive, but that seems fine.
I recently made some changes PCM wise.
Car is a 97 M6 and I swapped to a 95 M6 PCM (stock tune) and OBD1 knock module at same time. I also installed an EWP and new temp send unit at the same time. The coolant temp sensor was in the water pump housing when I bought it (used). I still have my old one and a new one I could install.
Before I swapped PCM's, I had a Bank 1 Sensor 1 oxygen sensor code, so I installed a new one right after swapping to OBD1.
Anyway, I have a SES light and the car runs very rich. I can't say what AFR, but I can smell the gas pretty strong.
The car has several bolt ons, but is internally stock including stock injectors.
I currently don't have anyway of reading the PCM and telling what codes are being thrown. I downloaded Freescan. If I buy the OBD1 cable with the OBD2 end (that was standard in 95) is that all I need to read codes and data log?
What all can cause a rich condition? I'm thinking FPR, o2's, Coolant Temp Sensor, MAF, MAP ??, anything else I'm missing or just wrong about??
As always....any and all help is appreciated.
Any advice on chasing down a rich condition?
I checked FP and it was 36 key on. Drops when you switch key off.
36 at idle & climbs to about 41 when rev'd to 2-3k rpm in neutral.
FPR is an adjustable aeromotive, but that seems fine.
I recently made some changes PCM wise.
Car is a 97 M6 and I swapped to a 95 M6 PCM (stock tune) and OBD1 knock module at same time. I also installed an EWP and new temp send unit at the same time. The coolant temp sensor was in the water pump housing when I bought it (used). I still have my old one and a new one I could install.
Before I swapped PCM's, I had a Bank 1 Sensor 1 oxygen sensor code, so I installed a new one right after swapping to OBD1.
Anyway, I have a SES light and the car runs very rich. I can't say what AFR, but I can smell the gas pretty strong.
The car has several bolt ons, but is internally stock including stock injectors.
I currently don't have anyway of reading the PCM and telling what codes are being thrown. I downloaded Freescan. If I buy the OBD1 cable with the OBD2 end (that was standard in 95) is that all I need to read codes and data log?
What all can cause a rich condition? I'm thinking FPR, o2's, Coolant Temp Sensor, MAF, MAP ??, anything else I'm missing or just wrong about??
As always....any and all help is appreciated.
I checked FP and it was 36 key on. Drops when you switch key off.
36 at idle & climbs to about 41 when rev'd to 2-3k rpm in neutral.
FPR is an adjustable aeromotive, but that seems fine.
I recently made some changes PCM wise.
Car is a 97 M6 and I swapped to a 95 M6 PCM (stock tune) and OBD1 knock module at same time. I also installed an EWP and new temp send unit at the same time. The coolant temp sensor was in the water pump housing when I bought it (used). I still have my old one and a new one I could install.
Before I swapped PCM's, I had a Bank 1 Sensor 1 oxygen sensor code, so I installed a new one right after swapping to OBD1.
Anyway, I have a SES light and the car runs very rich. I can't say what AFR, but I can smell the gas pretty strong.
The car has several bolt ons, but is internally stock including stock injectors.
I currently don't have anyway of reading the PCM and telling what codes are being thrown. I downloaded Freescan. If I buy the OBD1 cable with the OBD2 end (that was standard in 95) is that all I need to read codes and data log?
What all can cause a rich condition? I'm thinking FPR, o2's, Coolant Temp Sensor, MAF, MAP ??, anything else I'm missing or just wrong about??
As always....any and all help is appreciated.
Exhaust leaks before the o2 sensor can cause a rich condition.
Verify that the gas smell is infact fuel coming out of the exhaust and not a gunked up EVAP canister.
You need diagnostic software and and OBD cable.
You can get the cable from www.aldlcable.com
Then you can use freescan (free but sucks) Datamaster (cool but spendy) or tunerpro (free and kick ***!) to pull the codes and live monitor obd data to see whats going on with your car.
Your 95 has the 16 pin connector which is OBD II style, but it is still OBD I. What most people call OBD 1.5. Double check what connector you have under the dash, buy the cable, download the software www.tunerpro.net and you're ready to scan.
You can get the cable from www.aldlcable.com
Then you can use freescan (free but sucks) Datamaster (cool but spendy) or tunerpro (free and kick ***!) to pull the codes and live monitor obd data to see whats going on with your car.
Your 95 has the 16 pin connector which is OBD II style, but it is still OBD I. What most people call OBD 1.5. Double check what connector you have under the dash, buy the cable, download the software www.tunerpro.net and you're ready to scan.
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From: Milledgeville, GA
My car is actually a 97. It still has the stock harness, but now has a 95 PCM and knock module. The tune is completely stock. I forgot to mention that EGR and AIR are deleted along with the long tubes that are on it. Would those not being tuned for cause me to run excessively rich?
My car is actually a 97. It still has the stock harness, but now has a 95 PCM and knock module. The tune is completely stock. I forgot to mention that EGR and AIR are deleted along with the long tubes that are on it. Would those not being tuned for cause me to run excessively rich?
If it's a 97 car with an OBD 1 PCM, then it will have the 16 pin connector.
Everything I said above still applies.
You're really just shooting in the dark without some way to scan codes and watch obd 2 data.
Could be as simple as a bad 02 reading very lean and therefore the car is dumping fuel at it trying to compensate. Scanning software will tell you this right off the beat.
If one 02 reads 850 at idle, and the other reads 400, there you go..
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From: Milledgeville, GA
If I buy a cable......are the scan programs fairly self explanatory? As in....will I have a clue what I'm looking at or for? I understand what you are saying about 8xx value versus 4xx value for o2 readings, but I wouldn't know which number they are supposed to be at. Is there a tutorial or something with the software? Also....is there a way to save the information and email it to someone who does know what they are looking at?
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From: Milledgeville, GA
ok...I'm going to buy the cable I need, but in the meantime....I used a CP9185 Actron Scan tool. Only code thrown was a 13 which said LH o2 Error Code. It also had "datastream" availability, so I recorded a run just at idle in neutral (M6). There is a print function and a USB cable so I connected it to my laptop, but when you go through the print program the "print wizard" for the software says to select USB # port or COM# port, but the only thing to pick from in the window is COM ports. IDK what's up with that. My laptop doesn't have a COM port to connect to. I am going to try and just give as much info as I can in the next post.
Looks like the Bank 1 o2 sensor is giving a bad reading, but it is BRAND NEW....less than 5 miles on it. Plus it was already running like this as soon as I installed it Monday as well as before that.
Looks like the Bank 1 o2 sensor is giving a bad reading, but it is BRAND NEW....less than 5 miles on it. Plus it was already running like this as soon as I installed it Monday as well as before that.
ok...I'm going to buy the cable I need, but in the meantime....I used a CP9185 Actron Scan tool. Only code thrown was a 13 which said LH o2 Error Code. It also had "datastream" availability, so I recorded a run just at idle in neutral (M6). There is a print function and a USB cable so I connected it to my laptop, but when you go through the print program the "print wizard" for the software says to select USB # port or COM# port, but the only thing to pick from in the window is COM ports. IDK what's up with that. My laptop doesn't have a COM port to connect to. I am going to try and just give as much info as I can in the next post.
Looks like the Bank 1 o2 sensor is giving a bad reading, but it is BRAND NEW....less than 5 miles on it. Plus it was already running like this as soon as I installed it Monday as well as before that.
Looks like the Bank 1 o2 sensor is giving a bad reading, but it is BRAND NEW....less than 5 miles on it. Plus it was already running like this as soon as I installed it Monday as well as before that.
Could mean you have a wiring issue on the harness side. Check for cracks, burns, exposed wires, ect.
I would use a digital multimeter and test for continuity for all the wires to find where the fault is.
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From: Milledgeville, GA
Baro = 29.97" HG
Baro = 4.84 V
Battery V = 13.0 - 12.9
LT Fuel TR CL = 16
LT Fuel TRM L = 151
LT Fuel TRM R = 128
EVAP Duty = 0 %
Coolant Temp = 122 - 125 *F
EGR Duty = 0%
EGR VLV POS = 2
ENG RPM = 800 - 825
KS Counter = 15,284
FC1 Relay = ON
FC2 Relay = ON
IAC Position = 60 (59 only on start-up)
IDLE REQ RPM = 800
INJ L PW (mV) = 4
INJ R PW (mV) = 4
KNOCK RET = 0*
Loop Status = Open
MAF (gr/S) = 10-11
MAP = 10.47 - 10.79" HG
MAP (v) = 1.33 - 1.37
IAT = 96*F
O2S LEFT = 160 - 266 (mV)
O2S Right = 586 - 635 (mV)
Spark ADV = 19* - 22*
Throttle % = 0
TPS Sensor (V) = 0.61
VEHSPEED = 0 MPH
IAT = 96*F
I had also made an earlier recording and the O2S Left values were in the 150's, but the O2S Right Values were in the mid to upper 700's.
Won't have this tool past tonight as it's about $250, and borrowed.
Baro = 4.84 V
Battery V = 13.0 - 12.9
LT Fuel TR CL = 16
LT Fuel TRM L = 151
LT Fuel TRM R = 128
EVAP Duty = 0 %
Coolant Temp = 122 - 125 *F
EGR Duty = 0%
EGR VLV POS = 2
ENG RPM = 800 - 825
KS Counter = 15,284
FC1 Relay = ON
FC2 Relay = ON
IAC Position = 60 (59 only on start-up)
IDLE REQ RPM = 800
INJ L PW (mV) = 4
INJ R PW (mV) = 4
KNOCK RET = 0*
Loop Status = Open
MAF (gr/S) = 10-11
MAP = 10.47 - 10.79" HG
MAP (v) = 1.33 - 1.37
IAT = 96*F
O2S LEFT = 160 - 266 (mV)
O2S Right = 586 - 635 (mV)
Spark ADV = 19* - 22*
Throttle % = 0
TPS Sensor (V) = 0.61
VEHSPEED = 0 MPH
IAT = 96*F
I had also made an earlier recording and the O2S Left values were in the 150's, but the O2S Right Values were in the mid to upper 700's.
Won't have this tool past tonight as it's about $250, and borrowed.
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From: Milledgeville, GA
Also had a code #27...which was some kind of EGR Fault...which the car has no EGR or AIR now and has long tubes and ORYP...so that is to be expected since the PCM hasn't been programmed yet.
Starting to wonder if I have a bad o2 extension. Will have to get back underneath and inspect everything good.
Hopefully the data I posted will help alot for those of you who fully understand it all. I do...but not to the extent that I should.
Starting to wonder if I have a bad o2 extension. Will have to get back underneath and inspect everything good.
Hopefully the data I posted will help alot for those of you who fully understand it all. I do...but not to the extent that I should.
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From: Milledgeville, GA
Bank 1 (left) Heated Oxygen Sensor (HO2S) Circuit (open circuit)
Could mean you have a wiring issue on the harness side. Check for cracks, burns, exposed wires, ect.
I would use a digital multimeter and test for continuity for all the wires to find where the fault is.
Could mean you have a wiring issue on the harness side. Check for cracks, burns, exposed wires, ect.
I would use a digital multimeter and test for continuity for all the wires to find where the fault is.
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From: Milledgeville, GA
EDIT.....Sorry....was replying while this was being answered already. LOL
I really appreciate all the help.
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I bought a spare used extension from a member last week for $10 'cause I figured I could need it in the future. Starting to look like that was a good move. I'm going outside to install it right now and will post the results. I guess if I still get the same results I will swap the extensions from L to R and see if the condition swaps sides. That should isolate them I'd think.
I bought a spare used extension from a member last week for $10 'cause I figured I could need it in the future. Starting to look like that was a good move. I'm going outside to install it right now and will post the results. I guess if I still get the same results I will swap the extensions from L to R and see if the condition swaps sides. That should isolate them I'd think.