Valvespring ? with Pics
10-11-2010, 09:50 AM
#44
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I avoided the beehive springs because of this problem. I talked to an engineer to get a better idea of why a beehive valve would break and he told me the smaller area of any beehive spring is most likely to break because that's where point of least resistance is. The result is one part of the spring taking most of the wear and prematurely breaking, which is perfectly illustrated in the OP's pics. Speed_demon's pic in this thread is puzzling since it happened halfway down the spring.
Regardless, I avoided the beehives and got the good old Crane style double spring. I would check the valvetrain geometry when reinstalling the springs to see if the pushrods are too long causing the rockers to run off the ends of the valve at higher rpm.
BTW, how many people here have broken double springs on an LT1? Just wondering.
Regardless, I avoided the beehives and got the good old Crane style double spring. I would check the valvetrain geometry when reinstalling the springs to see if the pushrods are too long causing the rockers to run off the ends of the valve at higher rpm.
BTW, how many people here have broken double springs on an LT1? Just wondering.
10-11-2010, 12:06 PM
#45
I still think its funny that a lot of the people on the kill comp bandwagon are running springs made by the same company that makes comp's springs.
10-11-2010, 02:02 PM
#48
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I cannot believe people are still running the Comp 918's after all the **** thats happened !!! I was one of the lucky unlucky people . I got a batch of the **** Mexican wire Comp 918's and had one break on me but didnt totally collapse . Thank god I didnt lose my motor due to the sheer ******* stupidity of Comp Cams . Go with PAC 1218's or 1518's . The chance of you having trouble with a PAC spring is almost non existent . Its not the cam or anything else than inferior quality of the spring causing them to break . FYI Comp Cams used to go through PAC to make their Beehives but Comp wanted a higher profit for lesser quality . So they outsourced their spring manufacturing to a company in mexico and kept their Valve Spring prices the same . The unsuspecting customer would then buy the junk now considered 1218 Beehives and BOOM they just lost their motor due to ******* GREED from Comp Cams !!! By PAC or Patriot and never look back again . Dont give Comp Cams a third chance by buying their inferior quality springs . Yes I said THIRD . This valve spring **** has happened two different times already from them trying to screw the customer with crap . /rant
Comp wrote a lot on the procedures as to how they repeatedly check the wire alloy to be sure it meets their metallurgists' and engineers' chemical composition specifications.
Also, their spring materials are produced at the best steel mills in the world. Their spring material is the best application specific material possible and surpasses the manufacturing requirements set by SAE.
Testing includes:
Repeated tests from the time the alloy is liquid through the time it's offered for sale and beyond and;
Continuing consultation among the best metallurgists and engineerings,
Quality control (both destructive and non-destructive - some @ 10 million cycles at stresses much greater than they'll ever see in an engine)
Testing of every batch,
Scan with an Electron Microscope,
X-Ray Diffraction,
Spintron,
Subjected to Energy Dispersive Spectroscopy,
Processed on the latest CNC equipment,
Stress relieved,
Ground,
Deburred,
Shot-peened, and
Heat set, etc., etc. to insure the quality of their valve springs.
Comp also makes mention of the investment of "enormous resources to bring you the very best valve spring possible."
I figure it's their way of responding to the bad press and failures of their Beehives.
Just the other side of the coin.
Jake
10-11-2010, 02:57 PM
#49
Years ago when the 918's were the rage, even recommended by the Caprice owner, I put them in replaceing the 987's I had. at the time I 'felt" valve float...which later turned out to be a bad (new) opti. I have left the 918's in but maybe with 5 yrs and 15k miles...??
So today the rave is about PAC springs....maybe 5 years from now "they suck"...
10-11-2010, 03:07 PM
#50
The Patriots Golds are extremely popular now and I am not aware of a single failure.
Worst I have heard is they tend to provide the wrong size seals with the kits. With my old cam, my 1218's were floating badly but to be fair they had maybe 10K miles on them when I finally figured it out therefore I have no clue how they did when they were new.
Ever since I went Patriot springs, no breakage or float issues. I am just a believer that beehives work best on lighter and thinner LS1 valves.
Worst I have heard is they tend to provide the wrong size seals with the kits. With my old cam, my 1218's were floating badly but to be fair they had maybe 10K miles on them when I finally figured it out therefore I have no clue how they did when they were new.
Ever since I went Patriot springs, no breakage or float issues. I am just a believer that beehives work best on lighter and thinner LS1 valves.
10-11-2010, 03:15 PM
#51
The Patriots Golds are extremely popular now and I am not aware of a single failure.
Worst I have heard is they tend to provide the wrong size seals with the kits. With my old cam, my 1218's were floating badly but to be fair they had maybe 10K miles on them when I finally figured it out therefore I have no clue how they did when they were new.
Ever since I went Patriot springs, no breakage or float issues. I am just a believer that beehives work best on lighter and thinner LS1 valves.
Worst I have heard is they tend to provide the wrong size seals with the kits. With my old cam, my 1218's were floating badly but to be fair they had maybe 10K miles on them when I finally figured it out therefore I have no clue how they did when they were new.
Ever since I went Patriot springs, no breakage or float issues. I am just a believer that beehives work best on lighter and thinner LS1 valves.
10-11-2010, 03:33 PM
#52
Negative ghost rider.
I did a search with keyword "Patriot" & "spring" and sorted relevant threads based on the highest post count. If there was a single dedicated topic on Patriot spring failures, it would have stood out and been very obvious. These threads generate tons of responses so finding them ain't that hard.
Closest thread called "Patriot gold springs failing" only referenced possible float but not breakage. Sorry but I dont have the time to go through tens of thousands of replies so I rely on thread titles to back up my claim.
BTW I did the same thing for Keyword "918" only and the results for threads pertaining to busted Comp springs lit up like a Christmas tree.
Better luck next time.
I did a search with keyword "Patriot" & "spring" and sorted relevant threads based on the highest post count. If there was a single dedicated topic on Patriot spring failures, it would have stood out and been very obvious. These threads generate tons of responses so finding them ain't that hard.
Closest thread called "Patriot gold springs failing" only referenced possible float but not breakage. Sorry but I dont have the time to go through tens of thousands of replies so I rely on thread titles to back up my claim.
BTW I did the same thing for Keyword "918" only and the results for threads pertaining to busted Comp springs lit up like a Christmas tree.
Better luck next time.
10-11-2010, 03:51 PM
#53
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Bullshit. First problems 918s had was AFTER PAC stopped making them for Comp.
I would consider any spring a high potential for failure when people don't measure coil bind, installed height, or anything else pertaining to valvetrain longevity. There is a bad habit around here of just dropping in the spring and running it. Any spring can fail under a careless installer.
Last edited by 01ssreda4; 10-11-2010 at 03:56 PM.
10-11-2010, 04:10 PM
#54
You and speed are taking me out of context. I said I am not aware of a single failure. That is different than saying there has never been a single failure.
It is fair to say that every spring under the sun has exhibited a failure to some degree. However if there are dedicated threads to Patriot spring failures even if only a few, please post them casue I want to see them.
10-11-2010, 04:15 PM
#55
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I recently purchased a set of dual springs, and in my searchings found several individuals that chimed in saying they personally had Patriot failures. No dedicated Patriot spring failure threads per se. I heard it more then a couple of times. However, I feel that Patriot is the budget friendly spring, and as such I predict at least slightly higher failure rate. One main reason is what I stated in my previous post. The drop in and go syndrome. I personally choose Lunati's offering. It is THE cheapest LS1 dual valve spring, likely made identical to higher priced springs and uses a tool steel retainer instead of titanium (weight is supposed to be similar). Plus there is hardly anyone posting up that they are running them, so I am gonna play guinea pig. I have a Cam Motion cam that has some pretty ignorant lobes on it. So if they can handle that then I will give them a good review 
10-11-2010, 04:36 PM
#56
I would consider any spring a high potential for failure when people don't measure coil bind, installed height, or anything else pertaining to valvetrain longevity. There is a bad habit around here of just dropping in the spring and running it. Any spring can fail under a careless installer.
many droped 918's and other springs in 'stock" heads or even ported heads that did not have the spring pockets machined down to allow a 1.8" installed height. With a high lift cam and low installed height...bang. Some also did not put in a spring locators just shims and the springs would walk
IIRC the "bad batch" thing on the Comp springs was 1 specific batch. each box of Comp springs has a 'batch #". Back when i compared my batch # to the alleged bad one, it was different. i don't have the supposed batch # now that was supposed to be the bad one. Then i read the "blue" stripe ones were OK...by looking at the OP's pic that would rule that out..his has the "blue" paint stripe.
My XFI grind cam .575/.570 lift cam card says 915 aka bee hive springs.
Maybe i will put my old 987's w/10 degree locks back on.....dual spring w/damper
10-11-2010, 04:44 PM
#57
Pac isn't made in America anymore last I heard. PSI is the only one left. And most people, me included, are just running a cheap spring which is bound to get a few bad ones put out every now and then.
I still think its funny that a lot of the people on the kill comp bandwagon are running springs made by the same company that makes comp's springs.
I still think its funny that a lot of the people on the kill comp bandwagon are running springs made by the same company that makes comp's springs.
10-11-2010, 04:51 PM
#58
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Patriots are a good spring. I have heard of some breakage. but mostly due to lack of letting them warm up. They are titanium IIRC, which needs a lot of time to warm up.
I only run a PSI spring now
I only run a PSI spring now
