Is it just me...
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (14)
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 512
Likes: 1
From: Harrison Township, Michigan
By the way, the LT1 record is 8.08 at 172.
Last edited by ZGOBYBY; Dec 7, 2010 at 02:15 PM.
I know all about hearing a V8 camming on Woodward at dusk... summer needs to come back! Very good discussion here, there was a local guy in this area that had a '97 Camaro coupe that he painted Sunset Orange and he turboed it. He said if he had it all to do over again, he would have just bought an LT1 car. He said he eventually ran 14.2 on motor, and 12.6s on turbo.
Bye the way, the LT1 record is 8.08 at 172.
Bye the way, the LT1 record is 8.08 at 172.
Anywho, just something that I've noticed after reading ALL of this discussion. There's actually two different things going on here. First we start with saying that it's cheaper to produce more horsepower out of a boosted V6 and set the $ limit at 3-4K. Then, we somehow jump to record holding cars, and no one mentions $$$ on those. I could be completely wrong, but I'd be willing to bet the LT1 record holder was cheaper to build than the record holding boosted GP.
And just to throw this out there, my A4 LT1 is stock besides a K&N, and I'm getting 25 MPG. I bet with a T56, a full CAI, and a tune it could be at 30MPG. But that's beside my point: who buys a V8 car for fuel mileage??? Just saying...
Two things I do know:
8 second Lt1s have been said by owners that they've put about $75k into it. (I believe Z8s said this)
And the 8.6 GP will be beaten soon, and it's record was held by a stock from the factory shortblock, so at least that part of the car is cheaper... not that in the end the shortblock is that big of a part.
Pretty much I bet 8 second cars are all going to be very close in final cost.
Which is why I believe I said current fastest.
Lmao, what cam costs $1,000? I assume your including install price on that, in which case I like how you include an install shop price for the LT1, but apparently everyone who buys a $3k turbo kit for their 3800 either does it themselves or has somebody at a local shop that owes them a lot of favors.for the price of parts alone (like your doing with the 3800) you can get an LE2 setup, Headers, CAI, and a tune for less than 3 grand...thatd be over 400whp...
No need to get pissy, I was just throwing the idea out there. Newsflash have any LS1's or LT1's get 30mpg+..? I think not, yeah they're great on gas just not as good as a 3800. I think it'd be more of a unique idea. I've seen a ton of turbo'd v6's not any supercharged ones.
On The Tree
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
From: Sioux Falls, SD
gets close with a 3.1 v6 :p
lol
love this sound
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqsgF...eature=related
There's no way for us to ever know this.
Two things I do know:
8 second Lt1s have been said by owners that they've put about $75k into it. (I believe Z8s said this)
And the 8.6 GP will be beaten soon, and it's record was held by a stock from the factory shortblock, so at least that part of the car is cheaper... not that in the end the shortblock is that big of a part.
Pretty much I bet 8 second cars are all going to be very close in final cost.
Which is why I believe I said current fastest.
Two things I do know:
8 second Lt1s have been said by owners that they've put about $75k into it. (I believe Z8s said this)
And the 8.6 GP will be beaten soon, and it's record was held by a stock from the factory shortblock, so at least that part of the car is cheaper... not that in the end the shortblock is that big of a part.
Pretty much I bet 8 second cars are all going to be very close in final cost.
Which is why I believe I said current fastest.
. I'm sure Tony and Taner do as well, but I can't say for sure.You are denser then I thought if you truly believe a GTP not only goes faster dollar per dollar then an LT1, but it also has more potential them them and will ultimately be quicker then one. Not to mention the GTP has a notoriously POS transmission.
Like I said earlier, show me a GTP with $XXXXX into it and I can build an LT1 that is quicker for less cash. Hell, you can smoke 99% of GTPs with just a simple H/C/nitrous setup on an LT1.
PS: I got better gas mileage with an 11 second H/C build(30# injectors, dyno tune, 227/233 cam, ported heads, 3200 stall, etc) then you did with a mild bolt-on car??? Your numbers are considerably skewed. GTPs are rated at 16 city 25 highway...that's LESS then an M6 LT1s that makes a hell of a lot more power
. Last edited by Puck; Dec 7, 2010 at 02:19 PM.
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (14)
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 512
Likes: 1
From: Harrison Township, Michigan
Yeah, I forgot about their notoriously shitty trans. A buddy of mine had a GTP, and its trans went out a couple of times. As we say in my area, GTP TO THE KNEE!!! Then you punch your buddy in the knee, because everyone has them around here. Oh, and GTP owners only talk to other GTP owners, that's the rule.
Sikora didnt build an 8.6 car. He built a 7.x car that has not been dialed in yet. I know for a fact that other 8 second LT1s like Jake have a LOT less then 75K into their cars . I'm sure Tony and Taner do as well, but I can't say for sure.
You are denser then I thought if you truly believe a GTP not only goes faster dollar per dollar then an LT1, but it also has more potential them them and will ultimately be quicker then one. Not to mention the GTP has a notoriously POS transmission.
Like I said earlier, show me a GTP with $XXXXX into it and I can build an LT1 that is quicker for less cash. Hell, you can smoke 99% of GTPs with just a simple H/C/nitrous setup on an LT1.
PS: I got better gas mileage with an 11 second H/C build(30# injectors, dyno tune, 227/233 cam, ported heads, 3200 stall, etc) then you did with a mild bolt-on car??? Your numbers are considerably skewed. GTPs are rated at 16 city 25 highway...that's LESS then an M6 LT1s that makes a hell of a lot more power.
. I'm sure Tony and Taner do as well, but I can't say for sure.You are denser then I thought if you truly believe a GTP not only goes faster dollar per dollar then an LT1, but it also has more potential them them and will ultimately be quicker then one. Not to mention the GTP has a notoriously POS transmission.
Like I said earlier, show me a GTP with $XXXXX into it and I can build an LT1 that is quicker for less cash. Hell, you can smoke 99% of GTPs with just a simple H/C/nitrous setup on an LT1.
PS: I got better gas mileage with an 11 second H/C build(30# injectors, dyno tune, 227/233 cam, ported heads, 3200 stall, etc) then you did with a mild bolt-on car??? Your numbers are considerably skewed. GTPs are rated at 16 city 25 highway...that's LESS then an M6 LT1s that makes a hell of a lot more power
.lol at "simple" heads/cam nitrous setup. what a joke that comment is. Show me a "simple" heads/cam/no2 lt1 dynoing 700whp... sounds like that "simple" car isn't so simple to me. If it was hell, we'd all have 700whp lt1s.
making that kind of power is NEVER easy or simple. But I can tell you a GTP can and will make equal power $ per $. Just read what's been posted already.
Look at the mod list of the fastest GPs on that site. They aren't involved and they aren't huge $. I'm not talking about Scott Cook's or Matt's. I'm talking about the 10 second guys and the 11 second guys. There mod lists are SMALL. And I guarantee there's no hidden costs other than basic installation requirements like gaskets and such. These kits they are sold for GTPs are ALL INCLUSIVE. they are almost literally top to bottom kits.
Last edited by LSWHO; Dec 7, 2010 at 04:13 PM.
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Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 208
Likes: 1
Guys calm yourselves lol, I was talking about an M90 supercharged CAMARO not GTP's. I do think GTP's are fun, but typically you would just get an LT1 to go fast and a bolt-on GTP for the DD. Plus, 3-4k budget? Who has ever actually spent less than they're budget? Most people blow past their budget because they wanna go faster or forgot some stuff. I was just tossing the idea of GM making the 3800 supercharged in the Camaro's for fun. But, I do realize GM would've gained nothing from it, I just thought it was kinda cool.
If you think a 700whp GTP only has a 3K turbo kit on it then you obviously have never built anything quicker then your self proclaimed 285rwhp 14mpg monster of an LT1.
SSRRR was smart to stay out of this thread. Guess he knew it would be like talking cars with a 16yo who just saw Fast and Furious for the first time.
Dueces, maybe one day you'll pick up another GTP of your own and come show us all what's up.
SSRRR was smart to stay out of this thread. Guess he knew it would be like talking cars with a 16yo who just saw Fast and Furious for the first time.
Dueces, maybe one day you'll pick up another GTP of your own and come show us all what's up.
My Lt1 makes more than 285rwhp, but cute jab anyway. You'd know this if you could actually read. But, hell I guess that's what this thread is all about, ignorant illiterates. I have repeated myself so many times and you idiots keep coming out of the woodwork repeating things already addressed and ignoring FACTS.
Please let this thread die now.
V6's are great. I'd rather have a car with a V6 than a slant/straight 6.
On the other hand, if I can cram in a V8 I'm going to do it.
My stance on this thread: i would toss the V6 in the trash if I got a 4th gen for free with a V6. However, if someone gave me a 2002 Malibu and said make this fast, then I would go nuts with the V6
also
Please let this thread die now.
On the other hand, if I can cram in a V8 I'm going to do it.
My stance on this thread: i would toss the V6 in the trash if I got a 4th gen for free with a V6. However, if someone gave me a 2002 Malibu and said make this fast, then I would go nuts with the V6
also
Please let this thread die now.
That's how my car sounds, except even more lopey. I've got 3" true duals, spintech bullet mufflers, dumped. No connecting pipe. She CHOPS.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyI414NxpYo
gets close with a 3.1 v6 :p
lol
love this sound
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqsgF...eature=related
gets close with a 3.1 v6 :p
lol
love this sound
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqsgF...eature=related
Staging Lane
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
From: Fayetteville, AR
This is probably the wrong section but oh well. Is it just me or does anyone else think GM should've put the M90 on the RS V6 Camaro's? They already had the supercharger on Grand Prix GTP's since 1997. I think 240 hp would make a really fun car, plus good MPG? I always thought about this.. Only for the RS models though not just a straight up v6. With maybe a T-56 and a lsd not an open diff.
First, regarding the OP's M90 on RS V6s. The typical "RS" that you usually see with the badges on the sides is just a base model with the stock ground effects and spoiler, ac, aluminum 16x8 wheels, and 235 tires. Just another trim package. Nothing particularly sporty about it.
They did come out with a "sport" package for the V6, which I believe was mentioned earlier in the thread (Y87 package), along with a handful of specialty production cars.
Second, there was at one point a concept RWD M90 4th gen that GM/SLP experimented with very briefly. Unfortunately, they decided it wasn't worth the time and money to further research and destroyed it. Since then, there have been a handful of custom, private M90 adaptations to RWD 4th gen F-bodies. Here are a few different examples:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIEAs..._order&list=UL
http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewga...d=34037&page=1
And one more in a '96 Camaro that was recently parted out. Got to see that one right before it was sold over a year ago.
Unfortunately, as mentioned earlier, 4th gens were constructed as a last ditch effort to up f-body sales and were constructed of parts bin leftovers. A RWD FI V6 would not have been feasible in a failing market.
http://forum.camarov6.com/timeslips.php?
If that's not enough proof, then how about Tim King's former Twin Turbo V6 Firebird?
https://ls1tech.com/forums/vehicles-...-firebird.html
Assuming the other claims are true (also interested in some sort of example) and beyond the $4k upgrade to the motor you still have a junk 2 piece driveshaft, rear drum brakes, a 110mph speedo, a 5 speed manual or a craptacular automatic, as well as a handful of suspension components that won't stand up to any kind of real power.
Personally, I wouldn't mind a turbo 3.8 build somewhere down the road. They've certainly proven they can handle plenty of power, and not to mention abuse. And of course, if you blow one up, there are plenty in the junkyards to be had for cheap. But at this point, I'll stick with building a V8.
this thread is lawl
I have owned a 98 ls1 a4, a 99 H/C/I LS1 M6.
Currently I have a 96 LT1 trans am, and a 97 GTP
My buddy i sold the H/C/I M6 to had a turbo 99 3.8 M5 Camaro.
My GTP is cool, its got a CAI and ported blower, fun and has a little kick too it, and his old turbo 3.8 was badass, Stock motor with a turbo and a posi with some different gears i forget witch, It felt good pulled hard.
But guess witch one pulled harder out of the 5 of these lol. Idk about you but you can pick up a LS1 for about 4k pretty easy now, and a heads and cam package for under 3 grand? sure.
I snagged my GTP for 2.4k, but they hold value really well and most go for 3-4k even with 130k miles, Heads, cam, intercooler, ported blowe, pully and other supporting mods for a GTP isnt cheap.. And even after all that money into the GTP, the LS1 would ******* beat the **** out of the GTP any day.
And I fully expect my LT1 to do the same.
Can you buy a cheap 3800 and throw some cash at it and have fun? yes..
But its no LT1.
I have owned a 98 ls1 a4, a 99 H/C/I LS1 M6.
Currently I have a 96 LT1 trans am, and a 97 GTP
My buddy i sold the H/C/I M6 to had a turbo 99 3.8 M5 Camaro.
My GTP is cool, its got a CAI and ported blower, fun and has a little kick too it, and his old turbo 3.8 was badass, Stock motor with a turbo and a posi with some different gears i forget witch, It felt good pulled hard.
But guess witch one pulled harder out of the 5 of these lol. Idk about you but you can pick up a LS1 for about 4k pretty easy now, and a heads and cam package for under 3 grand? sure.
I snagged my GTP for 2.4k, but they hold value really well and most go for 3-4k even with 130k miles, Heads, cam, intercooler, ported blowe, pully and other supporting mods for a GTP isnt cheap.. And even after all that money into the GTP, the LS1 would ******* beat the **** out of the GTP any day.
And I fully expect my LT1 to do the same.
Can you buy a cheap 3800 and throw some cash at it and have fun? yes..
But its no LT1.
this thread is lawl
I have owned a 98 ls1 a4, a 99 H/C/I LS1 M6.
Currently I have a 96 LT1 trans am, and a 97 GTP
My buddy i sold the H/C/I M6 to had a turbo 99 3.8 M5 Camaro.
My GTP is cool, its got a CAI and ported blower, fun and has a little kick too it, and his old turbo 3.8 was badass, Stock motor with a turbo and a posi with some different gears i forget witch, It felt good pulled hard.
But guess witch one pulled harder out of the 5 of these lol. Idk about you but you can pick up a LS1 for about 4k pretty easy now, and a heads and cam package for under 3 grand? sure.
I snagged my GTP for 2.4k, but they hold value really well and most go for 3-4k even with 130k miles, Heads, cam, intercooler, ported blowe, pully and other supporting mods for a GTP isnt cheap.. And even after all that money into the GTP, the LS1 would ******* beat the **** out of the GTP any day.
And I fully expect my LT1 to do the same.
Can you buy a cheap 3800 and throw some cash at it and have fun? yes..
But its no LT1.
I have owned a 98 ls1 a4, a 99 H/C/I LS1 M6.
Currently I have a 96 LT1 trans am, and a 97 GTP
My buddy i sold the H/C/I M6 to had a turbo 99 3.8 M5 Camaro.
My GTP is cool, its got a CAI and ported blower, fun and has a little kick too it, and his old turbo 3.8 was badass, Stock motor with a turbo and a posi with some different gears i forget witch, It felt good pulled hard.
But guess witch one pulled harder out of the 5 of these lol. Idk about you but you can pick up a LS1 for about 4k pretty easy now, and a heads and cam package for under 3 grand? sure.
I snagged my GTP for 2.4k, but they hold value really well and most go for 3-4k even with 130k miles, Heads, cam, intercooler, ported blowe, pully and other supporting mods for a GTP isnt cheap.. And even after all that money into the GTP, the LS1 would ******* beat the **** out of the GTP any day.
And I fully expect my LT1 to do the same.
Can you buy a cheap 3800 and throw some cash at it and have fun? yes..
But its no LT1.
And a f-body with the L67 swap and turbo is a completely different animal.
Here's one of the older timeslip databases I could find. Can't find the newer one on FullThrottleV6.
http://forum.camarov6.com/timeslips.php?
http://forum.camarov6.com/timeslips.php?
If that's not enough proof, then how about Tim King's former Twin Turbo V6 Firebird?
Last edited by SS RRR; Dec 8, 2010 at 02:38 AM.
lol yes, my GTP only has a M90, hang on let me go drop almost 4 grand on a whipple, then get the supporting mods one witch includes having to rebuild the shitty transmission and that aint cheap either.
I would rather supercharge a stock lt1 for that price.
I would rather supercharge a stock lt1 for that price.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 208
Likes: 1
Interesting thread indeed... especially with the two separate concepts that are being discussed (argued) within.
First, regarding the OP's M90 on RS V6s. The typical "RS" that you usually see with the badges on the sides is just a base model with the stock ground effects and spoiler, ac, aluminum 16x8 wheels, and 235 tires. Just another trim package. Nothing particularly sporty about it.
They did come out with a "sport" package for the V6, which I believe was mentioned earlier in the thread (Y87 package), along with a handful of specialty production cars.
Second, there was at one point a concept RWD M90 4th gen that GM/SLP experimented with very briefly. Unfortunately, they decided it wasn't worth the time and money to further research and destroyed it. Since then, there have been a handful of custom, private M90 adaptations to RWD 4th gen F-bodies. Here are a few different examples:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIEAs..._order&list=UL
http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewga...d=34037&page=1
And one more in a '96 Camaro that was recently parted out. Got to see that one right before it was sold over a year ago.
Unfortunately, as mentioned earlier, 4th gens were constructed as a last ditch effort to up f-body sales and were constructed of parts bin leftovers. A RWD FI V6 would not have been feasible in a failing market.
Here's one of the older timeslip databases I could find. Can't find the newer one on FullThrottleV6.
http://forum.camarov6.com/timeslips.php?
If that's not enough proof, then how about Tim King's former Twin Turbo V6 Firebird?
https://ls1tech.com/forums/vehicles-...-firebird.html
All these parts are going to be year and individually dependent. But as far as I know, most of these "inferior" parts are able to be replaced or upgraded at a reasonable price... if they're not the same as the V8 parts, respectfully. Junky two piece driveshaft can easily be swapped to a one piece steel or aluminum, if the car doesn't come with it stock (like the steel one piece my V6 and your LT1 came with). Rear drum brakes or even that useless open differential can be swapped to disc and an oem limited slip package... once again assuming the V6 didn't come with that from the factory. 100mph speedo? 97+ came with the newer dash style and 125 speedos. Not like that affects anything anyway, it's purely aesthetic. An m90 car is not going to see anything past 125mph on the strip without dropping some coin. 5 speed can be built or swapped to the stronger 4L60E and aftermarket torque converter, which can also be built. As for those suspension components that won't be able to handle any kind of real power... they're the same components that came in the V8 equivalent (minus the difference in spring rates and sway bar sizes).
Personally, I wouldn't mind a turbo 3.8 build somewhere down the road. They've certainly proven they can handle plenty of power, and not to mention abuse. And of course, if you blow one up, there are plenty in the junkyards to be had for cheap. But at this point, I'll stick with building a V8.
First, regarding the OP's M90 on RS V6s. The typical "RS" that you usually see with the badges on the sides is just a base model with the stock ground effects and spoiler, ac, aluminum 16x8 wheels, and 235 tires. Just another trim package. Nothing particularly sporty about it.
They did come out with a "sport" package for the V6, which I believe was mentioned earlier in the thread (Y87 package), along with a handful of specialty production cars.
Second, there was at one point a concept RWD M90 4th gen that GM/SLP experimented with very briefly. Unfortunately, they decided it wasn't worth the time and money to further research and destroyed it. Since then, there have been a handful of custom, private M90 adaptations to RWD 4th gen F-bodies. Here are a few different examples:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIEAs..._order&list=UL
http://www.fquick.com/garages/viewga...d=34037&page=1
And one more in a '96 Camaro that was recently parted out. Got to see that one right before it was sold over a year ago.
Unfortunately, as mentioned earlier, 4th gens were constructed as a last ditch effort to up f-body sales and were constructed of parts bin leftovers. A RWD FI V6 would not have been feasible in a failing market.
Here's one of the older timeslip databases I could find. Can't find the newer one on FullThrottleV6.
http://forum.camarov6.com/timeslips.php?
If that's not enough proof, then how about Tim King's former Twin Turbo V6 Firebird?
https://ls1tech.com/forums/vehicles-...-firebird.html
All these parts are going to be year and individually dependent. But as far as I know, most of these "inferior" parts are able to be replaced or upgraded at a reasonable price... if they're not the same as the V8 parts, respectfully. Junky two piece driveshaft can easily be swapped to a one piece steel or aluminum, if the car doesn't come with it stock (like the steel one piece my V6 and your LT1 came with). Rear drum brakes or even that useless open differential can be swapped to disc and an oem limited slip package... once again assuming the V6 didn't come with that from the factory. 100mph speedo? 97+ came with the newer dash style and 125 speedos. Not like that affects anything anyway, it's purely aesthetic. An m90 car is not going to see anything past 125mph on the strip without dropping some coin. 5 speed can be built or swapped to the stronger 4L60E and aftermarket torque converter, which can also be built. As for those suspension components that won't be able to handle any kind of real power... they're the same components that came in the V8 equivalent (minus the difference in spring rates and sway bar sizes).
Personally, I wouldn't mind a turbo 3.8 build somewhere down the road. They've certainly proven they can handle plenty of power, and not to mention abuse. And of course, if you blow one up, there are plenty in the junkyards to be had for cheap. But at this point, I'll stick with building a V8.