LTX Cylinder Heads
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On The Tree
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From: Dayton ,Ohio
If you plan to run an aggressive turbo setup later on, I would go with aftermarket castings that leave you more room to grow.
Ported stockers are fine for most people, but aftermarket castings like TFS or AFR do have more overall potential for those few people looking to squeeze a bit more performance out of their builds.
Ported stockers are fine for most people, but aftermarket castings like TFS or AFR do have more overall potential for those few people looking to squeeze a bit more performance out of their builds.
Thats the paln.
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On The Tree
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From: Dayton ,Ohio
AirborneZ28 - I am no machinist or head flow expert but from what I have seen and heard the stock LT4 heads plus machine work seem to do as well as the AFR's for less money. Now I will duck and cover for the storm I just pulled down on myself.
I have to agree with you in a way. The AI LT4's are very comparable to the AI TFS's. There is only a 4.5 CFM intake increase in the TFS's over the LT4's, and a 2.9 CFM increase on the exhaust side. I don't think that would be much to relly make a difference. There is a $520 price difference in favor of the LT4's and the LT4's come with a cam. You just need a core for the heads.
The AFR 227's have a 24.6 CFM increase on the intake over the AI TFS 215's, and a 36.5 CFM increase on the exhaust side over the AI TFS 215's. If these numbers prove to be right I will be going with the AFR 227's. With only a $154 difference over the AI TFS 215's, the 227's seem like a winner to me.
There are other differences such as AFR's 3/4" deck and 60/40 valve spacing and slightly larger intake valve. The only downfall is that shaft mount rockers are almost required. Any other differences please let me know.
Michael
I have to agree with you in a way. The AI LT4's are very comparable to the AI TFS's. There is only a 4.5 CFM intake increase in the TFS's over the LT4's, and a 2.9 CFM increase on the exhaust side. I don't think that would be much to relly make a difference. There is a $520 price difference in favor of the LT4's and the LT4's come with a cam. You just need a core for the heads.
The AFR 227's have a 24.6 CFM increase on the intake over the AI TFS 215's, and a 36.5 CFM increase on the exhaust side over the AI TFS 215's. If these numbers prove to be right I will be going with the AFR 227's. With only a $154 difference over the AI TFS 215's, the 227's seem like a winner to me.
There are other differences such as AFR's 3/4" deck and 60/40 valve spacing and slightly larger intake valve. The only downfall is that shaft mount rockers are almost required. Any other differences please let me know.
Michael
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I have to agree with you in a way. The AI LT4's are very comparable to the AI TFS's. There is only a 4.5 CFM intake increase in the TFS's over the LT4's, and a 2.9 CFM increase on the exhaust side. I don't think that would be much to relly make a difference. There is a $520 price difference in favor of the LT4's and the LT4's come with a cam. You just need a core for the heads.
The AFR 227's have a 24.6 CFM increase on the intake over the AI TFS 215's, and a 36.5 CFM increase on the exhaust side over the AI TFS 215's. If these numbers prove to be right I will be going with the AFR 227's. With only a $154 difference over the AI TFS 215's, the 227's seem like a winner to me.
You don't need shaft rockers. You can run regular rockers with frequent checks (not recommended). You can order special stud rockers with an offset for around $300 right from AFR.
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From: Kingfisher Oklahoma
Most people frown on the LT4 heads because first you have to buy the heads and new they are 1000$ then you have to have them ported to get to the mentioned levels. Now if you find a set cheap it is a very enticing route.
I have AFR 190s Old Old style on my 383 atm, I had them flowed new, with a valve job and later had some work done on them. They flowed within 3 percent of advertized (1995 numbers) numbers, but a valvejob and a back cut on the valves gave them 5 percent more almost accross the board. The set I have when new had CNC chambers and 1/2 CNC ports, When they were worked on by a local porter recently, they picked up a rediculous amount. They are in line with some of the better 200 cc heads I have seen here but with better exhaust ports. Total over the last 16 years of owning these heads I now have had them on 3 different engines and payed close to 3 grand ....lol (this is heads and head work alone, not springs etc.)
I have AFR 190s Old Old style on my 383 atm, I had them flowed new, with a valve job and later had some work done on them. They flowed within 3 percent of advertized (1995 numbers) numbers, but a valvejob and a back cut on the valves gave them 5 percent more almost accross the board. The set I have when new had CNC chambers and 1/2 CNC ports, When they were worked on by a local porter recently, they picked up a rediculous amount. They are in line with some of the better 200 cc heads I have seen here but with better exhaust ports. Total over the last 16 years of owning these heads I now have had them on 3 different engines and payed close to 3 grand ....lol (this is heads and head work alone, not springs etc.)
Thread Starter
On The Tree
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From: Dayton ,Ohio
LT4 heads get a bad reputation for some reason, but they flow decent right out of the box. The problem with your way of thinking is that you are forgetting the initial price of them They aren't cheap at all. They are $1400+ to begin with, and then you have to send them out for work.
....and those cores are quite a bit of money.
LOL at the price difference. Don't be mislead by AFR's internet pricing policies. Basically they TELL their dealers how low they are allowed to advertise. The dealers can sell the heads for as low as they want to. Most will gladly send you a lower price through an email, but not on their website. Shoot me a pm and I will tell you exactly what I paid for my 227's. I will give you a hint....it was well under $2k.
You don't need shaft rockers. You can run regular rockers with frequent checks (not recommended). You can order special stud rockers with an offset for around $300 right from AFR.
....and those cores are quite a bit of money.
LOL at the price difference. Don't be mislead by AFR's internet pricing policies. Basically they TELL their dealers how low they are allowed to advertise. The dealers can sell the heads for as low as they want to. Most will gladly send you a lower price through an email, but not on their website. Shoot me a pm and I will tell you exactly what I paid for my 227's. I will give you a hint....it was well under $2k.
You don't need shaft rockers. You can run regular rockers with frequent checks (not recommended). You can order special stud rockers with an offset for around $300 right from AFR.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 135
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From: Dayton ,Ohio
Most people frown on the LT4 heads because first you have to buy the heads and new they are 1000$ then you have to have them ported to get to the mentioned levels. Now if you find a set cheap it is a very enticing route.
I have AFR 190s Old Old style on my 383 atm, I had them flowed new, with a valve job and later had some work done on them. They flowed within 3 percent of advertized (1995 numbers) numbers, but a valvejob and a back cut on the valves gave them 5 percent more almost accross the board. The set I have when new had CNC chambers and 1/2 CNC ports, When they were worked on by a local porter recently, they picked up a rediculous amount. They are in line with some of the better 200 cc heads I have seen here but with better exhaust ports. Total over the last 16 years of owning these heads I now have had them on 3 different engines and payed close to 3 grand ....lol (this is heads and head work alone, not springs etc.)
I have AFR 190s Old Old style on my 383 atm, I had them flowed new, with a valve job and later had some work done on them. They flowed within 3 percent of advertized (1995 numbers) numbers, but a valvejob and a back cut on the valves gave them 5 percent more almost accross the board. The set I have when new had CNC chambers and 1/2 CNC ports, When they were worked on by a local porter recently, they picked up a rediculous amount. They are in line with some of the better 200 cc heads I have seen here but with better exhaust ports. Total over the last 16 years of owning these heads I now have had them on 3 different engines and payed close to 3 grand ....lol (this is heads and head work alone, not springs etc.)
AFR heads have always had ridiculously strong exhaust ports...great for boost 
. Hell, if I was going to dedicate all that money to a TT build I'd spend the cash on some converted AFR 230s and have Tony Mamo or Craig hand port em 
.
Also, don't forget that flow numbers don't always equate to performance. Look at LT vs LS heads for example. You can have an LS1 head that flows less then an LT1 head, but still make more power with a similar cam because they are much more efficient and maintain higher velocities.
For a turbo build in the power range you want, I would make ported AFRs my first choice and ported TFS heads like what AI offers my second slightly cheaper choice. You could run them out of the box for now, then have them ported for huge gains when you get your new pistons for the turbo build.
. Hell, if I was going to dedicate all that money to a TT build I'd spend the cash on some converted AFR 230s and have Tony Mamo or Craig hand port em . Also, don't forget that flow numbers don't always equate to performance. Look at LT vs LS heads for example. You can have an LS1 head that flows less then an LT1 head, but still make more power with a similar cam because they are much more efficient and maintain higher velocities.
For a turbo build in the power range you want, I would make ported AFRs my first choice and ported TFS heads like what AI offers my second slightly cheaper choice. You could run them out of the box for now, then have them ported for huge gains when you get your new pistons for the turbo build.
Last edited by Puck; Mar 20, 2011 at 10:36 PM.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Oct 2010
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From: Dayton ,Ohio
I am assuming you are talking about AFR SBC 235's and having them converted to LT. If so what all goes into that and what is the typical cost to do so. If I was to do that why not go with the AFR 245's. AFR has been my first choice, just trying to get some good feedback before making the decision. I am also assuming that if I was to have SBC heads converted my Vic Jr. EFI intake would bolt right up.
Michael
Michael
Last edited by REAPER13; Mar 19, 2011 at 05:49 PM.
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AirborneZ28 - I am no machinist or head flow expert but from what I have seen and heard the stock LT4 heads plus machine work seem to do as well as the AFR's for less money. Now I will duck and cover for the storm I just pulled down on myself.
I have to agree with you in a way. The AI LT4's are very comparable to the AI TFS's. There is only a 4.5 CFM intake increase in the TFS's over the LT4's, and a 2.9 CFM increase on the exhaust side. I don't think that would be much to relly make a difference. There is a $520 price difference in favor of the LT4's and the LT4's come with a cam. You just need a core for the heads.
The AFR 227's have a 24.6 CFM increase on the intake over the AI TFS 215's, and a 36.5 CFM increase on the exhaust side over the AI TFS 215's. If these numbers prove to be right I will be going with the AFR 227's. With only a $154 difference over the AI TFS 215's, the 227's seem like a winner to me.
There are other differences such as AFR's 3/4" deck and 60/40 valve spacing and slightly larger intake valve. The only downfall is that shaft mount rockers are almost required. Any other differences please let me know.
Michael
I have to agree with you in a way. The AI LT4's are very comparable to the AI TFS's. There is only a 4.5 CFM intake increase in the TFS's over the LT4's, and a 2.9 CFM increase on the exhaust side. I don't think that would be much to relly make a difference. There is a $520 price difference in favor of the LT4's and the LT4's come with a cam. You just need a core for the heads.
The AFR 227's have a 24.6 CFM increase on the intake over the AI TFS 215's, and a 36.5 CFM increase on the exhaust side over the AI TFS 215's. If these numbers prove to be right I will be going with the AFR 227's. With only a $154 difference over the AI TFS 215's, the 227's seem like a winner to me.
There are other differences such as AFR's 3/4" deck and 60/40 valve spacing and slightly larger intake valve. The only downfall is that shaft mount rockers are almost required. Any other differences please let me know.
Michael
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,157
Likes: 1
From: Kingfisher Oklahoma
Yeah they are quite meaty and much heavier than the stock castings. Ive had then trued up twice. The valve-job was redone this last time around along with the guides.
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If you have them converted just tell them you are keeping a stock sbc style intake so they don't change the intake bolt pattern.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Oct 2010
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From: Dayton ,Ohio
The typical cost is around $300 to convert a pair of sbc heads to LT1. Clayton Racing can do it for you, so can Advanced Induction. There are a lot more shops that can do it, these are 2 off of the top of my head and they are both site sponsors.
If you have them converted just tell them you are keeping a stock sbc style intake so they don't change the intake bolt pattern.
If you have them converted just tell them you are keeping a stock sbc style intake so they don't change the intake bolt pattern.
I got AFR LT4 195s. HAvent had any problems with them only when my rocker broke, but thats not the heads fault. Can anyone give me a part number for those AFR 227 everyone is talking about. Cant seem to find them, only for a SBC. unless ur converting them
Thread Starter
On The Tree
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From: Dayton ,Ohio
They are on AFR's website under SBC LT. Here is the link:
http://www.airflowresearch.com/index.php?cPath=27
http://www.airflowresearch.com/index.php?cPath=27
They are on AFR's website under SBC LT. Here is the link:
http://www.airflowresearch.com/index.php?cPath=27
http://www.airflowresearch.com/index.php?cPath=27
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Oct 2010
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From: Dayton ,Ohio
I was gonna start a new thread to ask this question but since I already have a thread, why start a new one.
Has or is anyone running a 4 bolt FRONT main cap from Pro-Gram. I was just curious because I have never personally seen this done. I always think the beefier and stronger the bottom end, the less problems. If it cannot be done nor is it that big of a dea,l then I will go with the Howard Billets for all 5 caps. Thanks
Michael
Has or is anyone running a 4 bolt FRONT main cap from Pro-Gram. I was just curious because I have never personally seen this done. I always think the beefier and stronger the bottom end, the less problems. If it cannot be done nor is it that big of a dea,l then I will go with the Howard Billets for all 5 caps. Thanks
Michael
I was gonna start a new thread to ask this question but since I already have a thread, why start a new one.
Has or is anyone running a 4 bolt FRONT main cap from Pro-Gram. I was just curious because I have never personally seen this done. I always think the beefier and stronger the bottom end, the less problems. If it cannot be done nor is it that big of a dea,l then I will go with the Howard Billets for all 5 caps. Thanks
Michael
Has or is anyone running a 4 bolt FRONT main cap from Pro-Gram. I was just curious because I have never personally seen this done. I always think the beefier and stronger the bottom end, the less problems. If it cannot be done nor is it that big of a dea,l then I will go with the Howard Billets for all 5 caps. Thanks
Michael
The money and effort would be better spent elsewhere IMO.
Just something to think about.
I run the 4 bolt front cap from Pro Gram in my lt1. There isn't really enough material to install it correctly in a stock LT1 block, it is designed for the Bowtie blocks. But I needed all the help I could get.
