New here to LS1 Tech have been lurking around for info for a while and decided to start my first post with my first build. I own a 97 SS all stock been in a garage it whole life till i found her on leave, been saving up and taking suggestions all year from pro engine builders to the locals on the street while shes been waiting on me to come and bring her out of storage. I don't wanna swap it out for an lS1 or any turn key engines wanna build it myself almost convinced 383 is the way to go with a shot of juice 100-150 I wanna keep the car on the road and build the engine in my spare time, figured the best way to go is buy a junked LT1 from a 97 and start from scratch my current idea is basically:
trash the 2 bolt main for either a vette 4 or this:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-150100/?rtype=7

that's question 1 will this block work for a 97 Camaro if not is there anything similar to this as a good base

step 2 is take the stock aluminum heads off and send them to Lloyd Elliot for the LE1 or 2 package with the big cam of course

Depending on how it all comes together at this point call up Eagle for the Crank get it knife cut, Eagle Pistons, Rods, Bearings all that good stuff Edelbrock Intake for the LT4 bigger throttle body, Injectors. Optispark, Fast ECU basically everything you see on most builds for street cars, I already had the tranny rebuilt, broke the "sunshine gear, butterfly gear" whatever it was called basically I could not go to fourth or reverse but I've been assured that's actually common, going to leave the factory 3.23 gears but put in C-Clip eliminators so I wont find my back wheels passing me by.

I know this is a lot of information but I'm still in the concept stage and always open suggestion this is what i have concluded as daily driver / 10-12 sec 1/4
and something to take to the local watering hole for other Chevy fans to ask " So is it a real SS" wont have to say yes i can show them.

But to the point THE BLOCK first will that block work (link above) if not what will that's similar in price and quality as a solid foundation.

 

That appears to be a Gen 1 block, not an LT1...

Do splayed 4 bolt mains.

LE1 and 2 are not enough head for a 383 in my opinion. You would likely make very similar power with a 350/355, if you're set on a 383 do it right with a topend that an take advantage of the added cubes.

Eagle is junk, please don't be like eery othr LT1 owner out there and use the cheapest **** you can possibly find. You will have a 383 that gets raped by a strong running stock short block or 355.


Edelbrock intake is junk. And what leads you to believe the "bigger LT4 throttle body" is in fact bigger, and only works wih the Edelbrock intake? That's nonsense. LT4 TB is the same size... and you cm run a 58mm on the stock intake.

It is retarded to build a 383 and leave the stock gears in, and 10 bolt for that matter. If you make any power it will break. Of course if you use this hodge lodge of mismatches parts you have going, it wont make enough power to hurt a thing.

Get your trans done by a REPUTABLE 4L60E BUILDER. Or forget about it lasting.

Lastly budget about 15K if you want to do this right. I don't pretend to know your budget but for most of us its more realistic and more fun to take "baby steps".

Just remeber, doing more with less is ALWAYS more impressive and satisfying than half assing it and just bragging that you have a 383, or whatever.

 

Also, 10-12 seconds is a huge gap. A 10 sec car is NOT a daily driver.

A sprayed 12 sec car can be.

The first rule of hot ridding is you gotta have a beater.

I've modified every thing I've ever owned and those people who think you can double or triple the performance the OEM engineers give you and be just as reliable are drinking some bad koolaid!

 

You can use the SBC block if you want to, but it's going to be a lot of custom work.
Used LT1 blocks are available everywhere dirt cheap, buy one that works and have a reputable shop
clean, test and machine it for you. If you want a 4-bolt, don't waste your money on a
factory 4-bolt, have a 2-bold converted with splayed mains.
There's nothing wrong with wanting to do it yourself, there are plenty of
great books on the subject.
It might not be a bad idea to look around VRE, Golen and LPE's sites to get ideas though.
At least that way, you'll know what kind of budget you will need.

A 150-200 shot is not a huge deal if you build the bottom end right.
If you want more, you need to think about that before purchasing your rings and pistons.
I painted myself into a corner by skipping that step in my 383 build.

LE2 heads might be a little small, but Lloyd will help you get something that works.
If you tell him what your goals are, he'll get you a set of LE3s or ported aftermarket heads that get the most out of your project.
He can also provide you with an appropriate cam for your style and goals.
Bigger is not always better.

I like Eagle's forged stuff even though I don't think much of their cast assemblies.
I think Compstar might have been a better investment for me, but the Eagle will do fine.

Don't waste your money on an Edelbrock intake, just have Lloyd port your stocker.
It will easily outperform the Edelbrock and it will match the heads.

F.A.S.T. makes good stuff, but it means custom everything. It would be a
lot easier to run a 94-97 LT1 PCM or convert to an LS1 PCM. At least that
way, you could use a standard harness and stock-style sensors and ignition.
It sounds like you want a street toy/weekend racer, not a dedicated race car.

A 58mm TB will be more than enough for most builds.
A monoblade is overkill in most cases, but certainly an option.
Forget about Lt4 anything. It's overpriced and overhyped.
You will however need larger (42#?) injectors to handle this build.
I like Racetronix (Lucas). Don't forget to upgrade to a 155lph fuel pump (again, I like Racetronix here).

You're going to need a built tranny, consider a Performabuilt lvl2.
You're gong to need a beefy rear end, I suggest a Strange S60 with 3.73 or 4.10s.
You're also going to need a race torque converter; figure 4000RPM or so. I like ATI and Yank for this.
You will break a stock or street built 4l60e in no time. You will snap a 10bolt as well.
If you do that at the track, you will oil it down and meet a lot of angry racers.

Running 10s N/A with this kind of build shouldn't be an issue and you can keep it reasonably streetable.
Understand that fuel economy will suffer though.

Look at the big picture, plan ahead and remember that all of the parts you
choose should compliment the long-term plan.

Agreed, one that can carry parts is a bonus.
I've carried at least 3 LT1 engines in my van, one in my Tbird LOL
Both are/were sub-$1000 beaters.

More importantly, they can get you to the parts store for gaskets, bolts or anything else you forgot.
They can also get you to work and back while your Fbody is on blocks.

 

first off op, welcome to the site, the guys are telling you from experiance that a well thought out combo will out perform a missmactched combo.
This is a link to ramair95ta's build, he has a well built street driven car and his best et is 10.82@124, something like his is most likely what you are searching for

https://ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-m...damn-time.html

This is also what happens to 10 bolts when you get to the power level your talking about

https://ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-m...new-video.html

x2 on having another rig to drive besides your car to hot rod, when **** breaks, its nice to jump into ol' reliable and get to work instead of having to explain to your boss you can't make it because your car broke.

 

That's great information thank you for your input didn't know I was still so far away but that's why I'm here I have concluded step one is not the block its the beater lol but that makes sence so spayed 2 bolt is the way to go other have mentioned it but I figured a modified 2 bolt was weaker than a factory 4 but that's not the case gunna take a look at compstar and try not to be sucked into the market with over priced parts that are **** I'm willing to spend some extra money for quality that lasts good the know the LE2 heads will not flow enough my initial thought was that would be over kill but keep in mind this is still mostly a street car / driver gunna do some more research on what you all suggested and that's basically modify the stock stuff properly and not just go off on a mixed matched parts spree

 

My car could be a DD if I wanted it to. It's all in the parts, research, setup, and BUDGET.

 

Welcome to the board and there's nothing for me to add except search around (google 383 forged rotating assembly) and look for the best deals on parts I used a Competion Products rotating assembly for my new engine with all forged parts, got a used 847 cam, LE ported stock heads etc etc.
I have a Holley 58mm tb for sale pm me if you're interested.

 

Alright guys I've actually got the pen to the paper and crunching numbers inside the engine and in my wallet you have practically convinced me to get a LT1 block splay it and start from there id like to be putting around 450-490 to the ground N/A witch translates to around 530+ at the crank, now to see some results like this before the nitrous is on i have been doing the numbers on the heads to get some solid air flow now what i have deduced from the net for a solid 383 putting out 500+ hp is:

Heads: 240-260 cfm intake, 210-220 cfm exhaust and the ports around 184-188cc id like to hit it right in the middle for a solid street car / weekend toy

Cam: 230 @ .050 range with a center-line around 110-114

What do you think / suggest?

Also wanted to thank James Montigny and 97Z28SS for the Compstar / Rotating assembly suggestion would be almost stupid for me to buy each individual piece
now a couple of questions about the assembly before i call and place an order.

*stuff in parentheses means that is what i was leaning tword
1)Flat Top or Dish? (Flat) but also building for future N20
2)5.7 or 6.0 connecting rods? (6.0)
3) H or I beam? (H)
4) I love to concept of knife cutting your crank to cut weight and also have it cut through the oil in the oil pan but i noticed these are balanced if i did this would it **** it up and result in an unbalanced engine and cause more problems at the machine shop?
5)Valves some mechanics i have spoke with say its best to have the exhaust stay open longer as to create a type of vacuum for the intake now would i want a bigger valve in general or longer duration from the cam? or both?

 

One thing that you will find with public threads like this is that you will get a wide range of answers and opinions.
Use the input for what you feel it's worth, but understand that people won't always agree.
The good news is that there are so many build threads out there that you can read for weeks on end and gather
all sorts of great insight from people's decisions and questions over the years.


Let a competent machinist deal with that part.
Give him details around he application and get you what you need.
If you get bogged down with flow bench figures, you'll lose sight of the goal.

Same thing here. Yes, you want something in around 23x/24x, but the details
have to compliment the entire package. As a street toy, you're probably willing
to deal with a little more lope than someone building DD but not as much as an
all out dedicated track car.

1) They'll probably end up being dish, you want something that gets your CR
into the 11.1-11.4 range.
That will give you the widest range of cam options. I used -13cc pistons with a zero deck, 58cc chambers
and .029" gaskets. Using thicker gaskets or maintaining a .005" desk is probably a safer choice.
It's a math problem more than a choice between dish, dome and flat.

Don't forget to talk to your engine builder or parts supplier about future plans for N20.
The rings you choose and the gap you set will be critical.

2) That debate fills entire threads with pros and cons of both sides.
I used 6.0 because that is what my builder suggested. 5.7 and 5.85 would have
provided me with a longer piston skirt. The argument usually boils down to piston stability vs dwell time. Talk to your builder and read some of the debate threads.

3) Another highly debated topic. Read, talk to your builder, make a decision that you can live with.

4) A light, strong and properly balanced rotating assembly is key to stability and reliability.
Make sure the shop balancing your assembly knows what they are doing.
Yes, you can balance externally, but then you always need a specific flywheel/flexplate and you're wasting HP spinning extra weight.

5) See my earlier notes about cam selection.
You need the right combination of valve events to get fresh air in, trap it under pressure and as exhaust spent gas.
Having the right heads, valves and headers will make this much easier.
This is why you pay someone with experience to design the cam for you.

 

if the money is available, I see no reason not to go with more cubes ESPECIALLY if it's a street car. all parts being equal a 383 will do everything a 350/355 can do but with less required convertor, gear, rpm, more torque, better average power, and better driveability. not a big deal IMO if you aren't taking full advantage of extra cubes as this doesn't hurt you in any way performance wise. the guy is looking for a fun street car from what I gather, not a max effort track car.

how is forged eagle junk? the guy is planning a 500-600rwhp motor and TONS of people have put much more power and rpm on their parts with no problems.

just as big of a problem as people underbuilding their rotating assemblies is people overbuilding their motors. yes it's nice to have the added insurance of high dollar rotating assembly but if there are parts available that will do what you want for less money, why not opt for them. if you're not planning on revving to the moon and/or hitting with huge amounts of nitrous or boost, there's no reason an Eagle 4340 crankshaft and matching rods can't do it when guys like vtec are running 9.40s @ 140mph with cast cranks and powdered metal rods.

heck ramair/joe is running 10's@125 or so mph n/a with some decent rpm on a $450-/+ crank and I'm sure would have no problem hitting it with a healthy dose of n2o.

 

very true much like the old saying:

Cheap, Fast, Reliable, pick two.

you can have a reliable fast ride, just don't expect to do it on a shoe string budget.

 

Forged Eagle crank is good to over 1,000 hp. Just like any other part, get it checked before assembly with your whole rotating assembly for balancing.

How many people are making 1,000hp in this thread? Zero.

An 11 second NA 383 is very easy, can be daily drivable, and you can spray into 10s and meet ALL your goals. It won't be as cheap as a thrown together mess that has to spray to hit an 11.9999, but it will be fast and reliable - the most important of the two rules .

 

When it's all done I think i will name it "The Villain" can't wait to jump in and get my hands dirty with all this new found knowledge, I plan on doing a whole build thread on it pics every step of the way once I finally make it back to the states hopefully in mid April to mid May, I'm sure there will be some bumps in the road so stay tuned.

Also MADD PROPS to everyone and there expert advice has helped me tremendously.

 

Alright guys I'm back spoke to Lloyd and were on the same page in this build decided to go with his trickflows great guy by the way but here is my question.

1)When buying the pistons on Eagles site they ask your engine size your building that would be a 383 but....from my understanding there is no boring involved other than cleaning which is like 5 thousands barley noticeable so would you buy pistons for a 350 or a 383?

 

You have to buy pistons based on the stroke crank you are using... to make a 383 you're going to be using a 3.75 stroke crank which would need a 1.125 compression height piston.

You have no way of knowing how much its going to take to clean up the cylinder walls and make them true again. You can either shoot from the hip and buy pistons first "hoping" that they will be the right size, or wait and have your block checked by a professional shop who would be doing the machine work for you.

and I dont really care if "people have made 1,000 hp" on Eagle stuff, it's still ******* junk.

 

and also a 355 is a 350 bored .030 over as is a 383 for an lt1 but with a different stroke crank.

also you need to decide if your piston rings are going to be file fit for the engine as if i remember correctly they will need to be ordered slightly oversized 4.0305 for a 4.030 bore to allow for the filing to be done to custom fit the cylinders.

that will be something that will need to be discussed with the machinist, as the final bore and hone size is needed to accurately order the pistons and rings

 

Not "have made", its actually rated to. How can it be junk when I've never seen a single documented failure and its probably the most popular stroker crank? Its the same **** as the compstar - overseas forging that is finished in the US.

Calling it straight out "******* junk" makes you sound like a tool.

 

nope, you have no idea what you're talking about. everyone knows you need Callies Drangonslayer crank, Oliver rods, and custom gas ported pistons for rpm and power levels that are barely, if at all, above what a stock rotating assembly can handle.

just because there is no basis for his arguement doesn't make it any less valid.

 

I don't think either crank is **** for this application as long as its forged and has the proper stroke it comes down to what ever is cheaper i don't ever think the power this engine will make even on the spray will it destroy these cranks unless i have some serious failure like spinning a bearing and ignoring the knocks or something out right stupid on my part,

but either way i found a guy selling a Vette 4 bolt here on ls1tech cheap checking the shipping cost now thinking about going with it the blocks a exactly the same aren't they? plus its already had some of the machine work and **** done, id still take it to the engine shop for final specs but it comes to risk vs benefit what do you guys think?

https://ls1tech.com/forums/parts-cla...s-pistons.html