Dyno Results: Remote Mount Turbo Lt1
04-04-2011, 01:10 PM
#41
Some bad info here from Gregrob with regards to FI tuning. Mid 11's AFR is where you want to be for your app and is optimum on our combos. Look at forced induction section for the real info.
On race gas you can get into the 12's but not on pump. If 12.1 is as rich as you want to run you will be buying motors by the dozen. Your engine will be on borrowed time forged or not. Altitude does change things somewhat so this is aimed at the majority who don't live on top of a mountain.
On race gas you can get into the 12's but not on pump. If 12.1 is as rich as you want to run you will be buying motors by the dozen. Your engine will be on borrowed time forged or not. Altitude does change things somewhat so this is aimed at the majority who don't live on top of a mountain.
what are the specs on the turbo in the setup btw?
04-04-2011, 01:35 PM
#42
Some bad info here from Gregrob with regards to FI tuning. Mid 11's AFR is where you want to be for your app and is optimum on our combos. Look at forced induction section for the real info.
On race gas you can get into the 12's but not on pump. If 12.1 is as rich as you want to run you will be buying motors by the dozen. Your engine will be on borrowed time forged or not. Altitude does change things somewhat so this is aimed at the majority who don't live on top of a mountain.
On race gas you can get into the 12's but not on pump. If 12.1 is as rich as you want to run you will be buying motors by the dozen. Your engine will be on borrowed time forged or not. Altitude does change things somewhat so this is aimed at the majority who don't live on top of a mountain.
Call Innovate, and EFI University, and all the other people who do it right and tell them they're wrong.
Altitude don't have **** to do with it. That's why its called air fuel RATIO....
04-04-2011, 02:21 PM
#44
Stop spreading BS. Tune some forced induction of your own. Post count doesn't mean ****.
Most all real tuners err on the rich side of mid 11's for safety reasons.
That vid you posted talks "optimum", "overly rich" and "overly lean". No AFR mentioned. Do a search. Clearly NA and FI have diff. requirements.
Some people might believe what the read on the all mighty internet and it cost some kid who can't afford it some decent money.
04-04-2011, 02:43 PM
#47
Not playing the game. I said what my opinion on the subject is. I stated the incorrect reasons people tune overly rich.
What I said is the correct way to tune. Find out what AFR the engine likes w conservative timing, then add timing in and verify both BY READING THE PLUGS.
What most tuners call running it on the safe side is too rich,and is worse for the engine than the proper tune would be.
If anyone is too stupid or stubborn to comprehend that, its not my problem. Beyond that I literally do not give a **** what someone thinks or how they tune.
What I said is the correct way to tune. Find out what AFR the engine likes w conservative timing, then add timing in and verify both BY READING THE PLUGS.
What most tuners call running it on the safe side is too rich,and is worse for the engine than the proper tune would be.
If anyone is too stupid or stubborn to comprehend that, its not my problem. Beyond that I literally do not give a **** what someone thinks or how they tune.
04-04-2011, 02:57 PM
#48
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04-04-2011, 03:04 PM
#49
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I feel sorry for anyone reading this section believing the crap a few post.
Internet experts always have plenty of links without real world experience.
Shame but few in this section can be believed to know what they are talking about.
Internet experts always have plenty of links without real world experience.
Shame but few in this section can be believed to know what they are talking about.
04-04-2011, 03:43 PM
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Hmm, tuning by what your specific motor wants is wrong, and the right way is to dump a bunch of fuel and advance the timing until it don't spark knock, because everyone else does it that way?
I see what greg is trying to say, he is right, tune you damm motor to what IT wants, not what the internet says, if your motors happy at 12.7, great, at 11.4 great, don't pay attention to those who say get it to 11.2, that's where all fi motors run best. All their doing is regurgitating info they've read/heard from somwhere, that is an old school method, when running too much compression, they would dump fuel and back timing until it wouldn't spark knock, not optimal.
I see what greg is trying to say, he is right, tune you damm motor to what IT wants, not what the internet says, if your motors happy at 12.7, great, at 11.4 great, don't pay attention to those who say get it to 11.2, that's where all fi motors run best. All their doing is regurgitating info they've read/heard from somwhere, that is an old school method, when running too much compression, they would dump fuel and back timing until it wouldn't spark knock, not optimal.
04-04-2011, 05:24 PM
#51
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once the tune is figured out and it's running as good as we can get it i'll post up what my AFR is. then we will know what the perfect AFR is and everyone can tune there cars to that! sound good?! 
everyone has different methods of tuning. some are "right", some are flat out wrong, some are debatable. the world isn't perfect. everyone knows this guys, just let it rest! haha
93BlackZ28 - yes, STS makes an extremely over-priced kit that doesn't come with fuel injectors, pump, or a tune.
everyone has different methods of tuning. some are "right", some are flat out wrong, some are debatable. the world isn't perfect. everyone knows this guys, just let it rest! haha
93BlackZ28 - yes, STS makes an extremely over-priced kit that doesn't come with fuel injectors, pump, or a tune.
04-04-2011, 05:46 PM
#52
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Hmm, tuning by what your specific motor wants is wrong, and the right way is to dump a bunch of fuel and advance the timing until it don't spark knock, because everyone else does it that way?
I see what greg is trying to say, he is right, tune you damm motor to what IT wants, not what the internet says, if your motors happy at 12.7, great, at 11.4 great, don't pay attention to those who say get it to 11.2, that's where all fi motors run best. All their doing is regurgitating info they've read/heard from somwhere, that is an old school method, when running too much compression, they would dump fuel and back timing until it wouldn't spark knock, not optimal.
I see what greg is trying to say, he is right, tune you damm motor to what IT wants, not what the internet says, if your motors happy at 12.7, great, at 11.4 great, don't pay attention to those who say get it to 11.2, that's where all fi motors run best. All their doing is regurgitating info they've read/heard from somwhere, that is an old school method, when running too much compression, they would dump fuel and back timing until it wouldn't spark knock, not optimal.
I have gone leaner in the past but the plugs and MPH tell me that it doesn't work on my setup. But then again I'm not cutting up my plugs to look at them like others are doing. I don't even have an otoscope to read them either which others have told me is the only way to get an idea without cutting them open.
You should definitely try (in small increments) to vary the tune to see if she picks up or slows down. However for me I would never go into the 13's but then again I'm not running 8PSI I'm running 23PSI. Could be a big difference there.
04-04-2011, 06:15 PM
#53
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Nearly all street boosted applications run the most power from a ~11.7 AFR. GregRob watch the video closely and you will see that he isn't stating the WOT he is stating the low conditions which is correct.
Both of the arguing parties are correct but not.
Yes a 15.4 A/F is what i run on my boosted truck, but just in the closed loop function. which is fine if timing is kept in check. It seems a lot of "quick" tuners will not lean this area up , and in fact richen it to "keep" detonation down and be more "safe". Which is complete bull crap.
Now under a high load and going into open loop I always run it at a steady 11.7 A/F. This is to keep the fuel from burning too fast and causing unnecessary pressure as the piston compresses the mixture. Also it is to make the flame propagation slower and more consistent.
with adding boost the cylinder pressure doesn't decrease a fast as N/a motors after the gases have ignited and burned. this keeps higher cylinder pressures longer in the combustion stroke. ignition of the mixture later in the process can yield greater results, because of the greater advantage on the crankshaft.
also a tuner that richens the fueling during the closed loop cycles might be trying to keep internal temperatures down, if the vehicle is having trouble keeping a lower temp.
Both of the arguing parties are correct but not.
Yes a 15.4 A/F is what i run on my boosted truck, but just in the closed loop function. which is fine if timing is kept in check. It seems a lot of "quick" tuners will not lean this area up , and in fact richen it to "keep" detonation down and be more "safe". Which is complete bull crap.
Now under a high load and going into open loop I always run it at a steady 11.7 A/F. This is to keep the fuel from burning too fast and causing unnecessary pressure as the piston compresses the mixture. Also it is to make the flame propagation slower and more consistent.
with adding boost the cylinder pressure doesn't decrease a fast as N/a motors after the gases have ignited and burned. this keeps higher cylinder pressures longer in the combustion stroke. ignition of the mixture later in the process can yield greater results, because of the greater advantage on the crankshaft.
also a tuner that richens the fueling during the closed loop cycles might be trying to keep internal temperatures down, if the vehicle is having trouble keeping a lower temp.
04-04-2011, 06:26 PM
#54
Not playing the game. I said what my opinion on the subject is. I stated the incorrect reasons people tune overly rich.
What I said is the correct way to tune. Find out what AFR the engine likes w conservative timing, then add timing in and verify both BY READING THE PLUGS.
What most tuners call running it on the safe side is too rich,and is worse for the engine than the proper tune would be.
If anyone is too stupid or stubborn to comprehend that, its not my problem. Beyond that I literally do not give a **** what someone thinks or how they tune.
What I said is the correct way to tune. Find out what AFR the engine likes w conservative timing, then add timing in and verify both BY READING THE PLUGS.
What most tuners call running it on the safe side is too rich,and is worse for the engine than the proper tune would be.
If anyone is too stupid or stubborn to comprehend that, its not my problem. Beyond that I literally do not give a **** what someone thinks or how they tune.
04-04-2011, 09:28 PM
#57
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Not playing the game. I said what my opinion on the subject is. I stated the incorrect reasons people tune overly rich.
What I said is the correct way to tune. Find out what AFR the engine likes w conservative timing, then add timing in and verify both BY READING THE PLUGS.
What most tuners call running it on the safe side is too rich,and is worse for the engine than the proper tune would be.
If anyone is too stupid or stubborn to comprehend that, its not my problem. Beyond that I literally do not give a **** what someone thinks or how they tune.
What I said is the correct way to tune. Find out what AFR the engine likes w conservative timing, then add timing in and verify both BY READING THE PLUGS.
What most tuners call running it on the safe side is too rich,and is worse for the engine than the proper tune would be.
If anyone is too stupid or stubborn to comprehend that, its not my problem. Beyond that I literally do not give a **** what someone thinks or how they tune.
I just read this entire thread and i complety agree with most you said. The car needs TUNED and doing this the correct way takes time on the dyno and on the street, reading plugs listening for knock and tuning tuing tuing untill its perfect. Just because everyone does it a safe way,does not make it the correct way no matter what you have to say about it. every motor is a difrent beast in itself and must be tweeked with to be unleashed completly. Not a big rubber stamp for every car with a simular set-up or a turbo or charger bolted on.
Almost 400hp on a stock short block with headers only is bad ***, but your close to be at your limit before something will more than likly go. But 2+yrs of boosted fun is priceless. Im sure you can work out a great tune on the dyno with some time and money, shoot throw a nice little baby cam in it and be at the 450 level easy.
04-04-2011, 10:21 PM
#58
Better call up speedinc and tell them they are doing it wrong.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/14722934-post1.html
Better call up LMR too. It's not like they know what they are doing after running their 1800rwhp camaro at the texas mile...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upkT8OGRJ7k&hd=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ki1QrCGfntk&hd=1
https://ls1tech.com/forums/14722934-post1.html
Better call up LMR too. It's not like they know what they are doing after running their 1800rwhp camaro at the texas mile...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upkT8OGRJ7k&hd=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ki1QrCGfntk&hd=1
04-05-2011, 12:24 AM
#59
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i had lswho help me out with the tune tonight. after he re-did the tune the first time we both noticed a big difference in how good it pulled, he got rid of a lot of the knock! we still had some though so he tweaked it some more, the car was hitting 10psi though so my dumb *** went and adjusted the boost controller as it had vibrated loose (why it was at 10psi) and brought it down to 5psi on the next run 
good news was.. we didn't get any knock at 5psi, bad news was we weren't able to see what it'd do at the 7-8psi level, and of course, it didn't pull as hard that time cause we were only at 5psi.
over all though the car felt a LOT better and now i have a better piece of mind knowing it's not knocking like crazy and pulling the max amount of timing it can (7) from 4-6k rpms! we'll definitely have to mess with it some more to get it really fined tuned but i'm super happy with how it is now
good news was.. we didn't get any knock at 5psi, bad news was we weren't able to see what it'd do at the 7-8psi level, and of course, it didn't pull as hard that time cause we were only at 5psi.over all though the car felt a LOT better and now i have a better piece of mind knowing it's not knocking like crazy and pulling the max amount of timing it can (7) from 4-6k rpms! we'll definitely have to mess with it some more to get it really fined tuned but i'm super happy with how it is now
04-05-2011, 12:28 AM
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