Budget bullet proof bottom end
06-23-2011, 11:58 AM
#1
Budget bullet proof bottom end Hey everybody, I you read my other thread you know my stock, cam only LT1 is now a large paperweight now that I blew it up at the strip.
Now comes the long road of planning and picking the right parts to build it up to handle some abuse and make some more serious HP while I'm at it. I'm trying to stay positive since at least now I have an excuse to get my heads ported and do a forged 355 or 383 bottom end over the next several months. New goals for the car are 400 RWHP and it needs to stay together when spun to 6500 RPM....no nitrous no boost. I'm planning on reusing my cam/valvetrain and get the heads ported by Advance Induction to reach this goal. I need a strong bottom end that's not going to break the bank (or break it's self) so I'm either going to have to buy a shortblock from somebody on the forum or craigslist or buy all the parts myself and put it together.
I'm debating on this forged Eagle 383 rotating assembly:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SB-Ch...Q5fAccessories
Or, just build a 355 with stock crank and forged rods and pistons...something like this:
Ai Budget 355cid LT1 Rotating Assembly Package:
Utilizes Stock 3.48" Stroke Crankshaft (Not Included!)
Compstar Forged 4340 H-Beam Rods
Mahle Forged Pistons (-5cc or -16cc)
Mahle Plasma-Moly 1.5/1.5/3mm Ring Package
Mahle Steel Pins & Wire Locks
$1195* - Your local machinist will need to add their preferred bearings & balance your crankshaft to the new reciprocating assy
What's everybody's thoughts on these packages? Better deals out there? Suggestions?
Now comes the long road of planning and picking the right parts to build it up to handle some abuse and make some more serious HP while I'm at it. I'm trying to stay positive since at least now I have an excuse to get my heads ported and do a forged 355 or 383 bottom end over the next several months. New goals for the car are 400 RWHP and it needs to stay together when spun to 6500 RPM....no nitrous no boost. I'm planning on reusing my cam/valvetrain and get the heads ported by Advance Induction to reach this goal. I need a strong bottom end that's not going to break the bank (or break it's self) so I'm either going to have to buy a shortblock from somebody on the forum or craigslist or buy all the parts myself and put it together.I'm debating on this forged Eagle 383 rotating assembly:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SB-Ch...Q5fAccessories
Or, just build a 355 with stock crank and forged rods and pistons...something like this:
Ai Budget 355cid LT1 Rotating Assembly Package:
Utilizes Stock 3.48" Stroke Crankshaft (Not Included!)
Compstar Forged 4340 H-Beam Rods
Mahle Forged Pistons (-5cc or -16cc)
Mahle Plasma-Moly 1.5/1.5/3mm Ring Package
Mahle Steel Pins & Wire Locks
$1195* - Your local machinist will need to add their preferred bearings & balance your crankshaft to the new reciprocating assy
What's everybody's thoughts on these packages? Better deals out there? Suggestions?
06-23-2011, 12:21 PM
#2
Hey everybody, I you read my other thread you know my stock, cam only LT1 is now a large paperweight now that I blew it up at the strip. Now comes the long road of planning and picking the right parts to build it up to handle some abuse and make some more serious HP while I'm at it. I'm trying to stay positive since at least now I have an excuse to get my heads ported and do a forged 355 or 383 bottom end over the next several months. New goals for the car are 400 RWHP and it needs to stay together when spun to 6500 RPM....no nitrous no boost. I'm planning on reusing my cam/valvetrain and get the heads ported by Advance Induction to reach this goal. I need a strong bottom end that's not going to break the bank (or break it's self) so I'm either going to have to buy a shortblock from somebody on the forum or craigslist or buy all the parts myself and put it together.
I'm debating on this forged Eagle 383 rotating assembly:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SB-Ch...Q5fAccessories
Or, just build a 355 with stock crank and forged rods and pistons...something like this:
Ai Budget 355cid LT1 Rotating Assembly Package:
Utilizes Stock 3.48" Stroke Crankshaft (Not Included!)
Compstar Forged 4340 H-Beam Rods
Mahle Forged Pistons (-5cc or -16cc)
Mahle Plasma-Moly 1.5/1.5/3mm Ring Package
Mahle Steel Pins & Wire Locks
$1195* - Your local machinist will need to add their preferred bearings & balance your crankshaft to the new reciprocating assy
What's everybody's thoughts on these packages? Better deals out there? Suggestions?
Now comes the long road of planning and picking the right parts to build it up to handle some abuse and make some more serious HP while I'm at it. I'm trying to stay positive since at least now I have an excuse to get my heads ported and do a forged 355 or 383 bottom end over the next several months. New goals for the car are 400 RWHP and it needs to stay together when spun to 6500 RPM....no nitrous no boost. I'm planning on reusing my cam/valvetrain and get the heads ported by Advance Induction to reach this goal. I need a strong bottom end that's not going to break the bank (or break it's self) so I'm either going to have to buy a shortblock from somebody on the forum or craigslist or buy all the parts myself and put it together.I'm debating on this forged Eagle 383 rotating assembly:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SB-Ch...Q5fAccessories
Or, just build a 355 with stock crank and forged rods and pistons...something like this:
Ai Budget 355cid LT1 Rotating Assembly Package:
Utilizes Stock 3.48" Stroke Crankshaft (Not Included!)
Compstar Forged 4340 H-Beam Rods
Mahle Forged Pistons (-5cc or -16cc)
Mahle Plasma-Moly 1.5/1.5/3mm Ring Package
Mahle Steel Pins & Wire Locks
$1195* - Your local machinist will need to add their preferred bearings & balance your crankshaft to the new reciprocating assy
What's everybody's thoughts on these packages? Better deals out there? Suggestions?
06-23-2011, 09:17 PM
#3
Just curiuos, what's the difference in quality in Callies/Compstar vs. Eagle forged crankshaft and rods? Or does it even matter at this modest power level (450)? I can see Eagle forged peices are ususally cheaper than the Callies stuff. But, it is tempting to get those extra cubes and torque with the Eagle 383 forged kit for only $120 more than a 355 with stock crank and Callies rods and forged pistons.
06-23-2011, 10:13 PM
#4
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Callies and compu star are much stronger than anything eagle would make. Eagle tolerances are not the greatest either. I would run a stock crank before I ever took it out for an eagle. The dragon slyer crank is worth every penny bit over kill for what it sounds you want to do. Everything else seemed like great ideas. Le or AI ported heads are sweet. I have le2 and le2 heads and I love them. But you will likly swap the cam you have for one matched to the heads.
06-24-2011, 12:09 AM
#5
He is clearly not building a race car. ANY brand forged crank is plenty strong enough. Just make sure everything gets measured and checked out, don't just throw it all together and hope its all balanced and clears everything.
Forged Eagle crank will hold more then twice of his HP goal, no problem.
Callies and compu star are much stronger than anything eagle would make. Eagle tolerances are not the greatest either. I would run a stock crank before I ever took it out for an eagle. The dragon slyer crank is worth every penny bit over kill for what it sounds you want to do. Everything else seemed like great ideas. Le or AI ported heads are sweet. I have le2 and le2 heads and I love them. But you will likly swap the cam you have for one matched to the heads.
06-24-2011, 02:03 AM
#6
Unless you shell out the big bucks for American steel, it is all Chinese forgings. The various companies get the blanks and then clean them up to their specs. Some may or may not have better quality control than others, but I highly suspect the strength would be equivalent.
Also you can get a set of forged rods and pistons a helluva lot cheaper than that......just look around.
Also you can get a set of forged rods and pistons a helluva lot cheaper than that......just look around.
06-24-2011, 12:51 PM
#7
I'm starting to lean toward the Eagle 383 forged kit; the extra torque and power sounds fun without revving it to the moon since this is a 99% street car and I'm kinda scared to spin this one past 6300-6400 RPM since my last motor bit the dust.(Shift light and conservative rev limiter at 6400 are a must this time). My smallish cam (lunati voodoo 60121) would be a baby cam in a 383 and probably cost 20-30 HP compared to something bigger but should be a torque monster down low and even more driveable than it already was.
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06-24-2011, 01:14 PM
#8
I'm starting to lean toward the Eagle 383 forged kit; the extra torque and power sounds fun without revving it to the moon since this is a 99% street car and I'm kinda scared to spin this one past 6300-6400 RPM since my last motor bit the dust.(Shift light and conservative rev limiter at 6400 are a must this time). My smallish cam (lunati voodoo 60121) would be a baby cam in a 383 and probably cost 20-30 HP compared to something bigger but should be a torque monster down low and even more driveable than it already was.
06-24-2011, 02:34 PM
#9
Does anybody know about how much I should expect to pay a local machine shop to prep a block and install the bottom end and do all the machining, magnaflux, clearance the block, ect. (probably balance it too)? $400-$600? I'm almost certain my block is toast because I saw/felt a chuck of metal fly out on the strip so I will have to pick up a rebuildable LT1 from a local junkyard for $200 or so. It might just be easier/more economical to let somebody else do all the work for me and just buy a shortblock ready to go from the classifieds or craigslist.
06-24-2011, 03:14 PM
#11
Ouch! Damn that's expensive. Now I see how these stoker motors get so expensive quickly. With that in mind, I'm keeping my eyes peeled for a quality forged shortblock 355 or 383 for sale I can get to save me all the time and trouble of buying an old block, dragging the motor to a machine shop, buying all the bottom end parts....we're talking $3K plus and several weeks/months....I believe I saw a 383 shortblock in the classifieds for $2700 OBO.
07-11-2011, 09:44 AM
#12
My search for a budget bullet proof bottom end is now complete! 
(Thanks 93Z2871805) Just picked up a short-block ready to go this weekend complete with gently used MSD opti and gaskets. I got a deal MUCH cheaper than buying all the parts, buying a junk shortblock, and paying a machine shop. Now I just got to get my heads ported and put her all back together. Hopefully, this bottom end is a bit overkill for my goals of 420ish RWHP with Ai 200cc heads. What's the maximum SAFE RPM you can spin this thing?6800?
Here's the specs:
93 LT1 block, fully machined (Block cleaned, magnafluxed, bored with deck plate, splayed caps installed, line bored/honed, core plugs installed, Durabond cam bearings installed, clean up milled with around .005 removed, stroker clearanced)
Eagle Billet Splayed Caps w/ ARP Studs/Bolts
Ohio 4340 Forged Crankshaft
Ohio 4340 H-Beam 5.7 Rods w/ ARP 2000 Bolts
Keith Black Forged Pistons with +6.4cc Valve Reliefs
Perfect Circle Plasma-Moly Rings
Clevite TM77 Rod and Main Bearings
SFI Approved Professional Products Balancer
SFI Approved TCI Flexplate
Rotating Assembly Fully Balanced (Have Memo with all the weights, it was faxed to me from the company as I lost the original sheet)
Melling M155HV Oil Pump w/ Milodon Pump Bracket, hardened drive shaft, ARP Pump Stud
Moroso 7qt Kicked out Zinc Finish Pan with Matching bolt-on pick-up
LS7 Lifters
New (Comp Cams iirc) Replacement Lifter Spider and Anti-Rotation Link Bars
Herron Billet Aluminum Oil Pump Drive w/ factory gear
Lunati Cam
Lunati Billet True Roller Single-Row Timing Set (For Gen 1 Opti Design)
All Fasteners are ARP (Including the oil pan), except the ones for the lifter spider and the oil pump drive hold down bolt.
(Thanks 93Z2871805) Just picked up a short-block ready to go this weekend complete with gently used MSD opti and gaskets. I got a deal MUCH cheaper than buying all the parts, buying a junk shortblock, and paying a machine shop. Now I just got to get my heads ported and put her all back together. Hopefully, this bottom end is a bit overkill for my goals of 420ish RWHP with Ai 200cc heads. What's the maximum SAFE RPM you can spin this thing?6800?Here's the specs:
93 LT1 block, fully machined (Block cleaned, magnafluxed, bored with deck plate, splayed caps installed, line bored/honed, core plugs installed, Durabond cam bearings installed, clean up milled with around .005 removed, stroker clearanced)
Eagle Billet Splayed Caps w/ ARP Studs/Bolts
Ohio 4340 Forged Crankshaft
Ohio 4340 H-Beam 5.7 Rods w/ ARP 2000 Bolts
Keith Black Forged Pistons with +6.4cc Valve Reliefs
Perfect Circle Plasma-Moly Rings
Clevite TM77 Rod and Main Bearings
SFI Approved Professional Products Balancer
SFI Approved TCI Flexplate
Rotating Assembly Fully Balanced (Have Memo with all the weights, it was faxed to me from the company as I lost the original sheet)
Melling M155HV Oil Pump w/ Milodon Pump Bracket, hardened drive shaft, ARP Pump Stud
Moroso 7qt Kicked out Zinc Finish Pan with Matching bolt-on pick-up
LS7 Lifters
New (Comp Cams iirc) Replacement Lifter Spider and Anti-Rotation Link Bars
Herron Billet Aluminum Oil Pump Drive w/ factory gear
Lunati Cam
Lunati Billet True Roller Single-Row Timing Set (For Gen 1 Opti Design)
All Fasteners are ARP (Including the oil pan), except the ones for the lifter spider and the oil pump drive hold down bolt.
07-11-2011, 10:54 AM
#13
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My search for a budget bullet proof bottom end is now complete! (Thanks 93Z2871805) Just picked up a short-block ready to go this weekend complete with gently used MSD opti and gaskets. I got a deal MUCH cheaper than buying all the parts, buying a junk shortblock, and paying a machine shop. Now I just got to get my heads ported and put her all back together. Hopefully, this bottom end is a bit overkill for my goals of 420ish RWHP with Ai 200cc heads. What's the maximum SAFE RPM you can spin this thing?6800?
Here's the specs:
93 LT1 block, fully machined (Block cleaned, magnafluxed, bored with deck plate, splayed caps installed, line bored/honed, core plugs installed, Durabond cam bearings installed, clean up milled with around .005 removed, stroker clearanced)
Eagle Billet Splayed Caps w/ ARP Studs/Bolts
Ohio 4340 Forged Crankshaft
Ohio 4340 H-Beam 5.7 Rods w/ ARP 2000 Bolts
Keith Black Forged Pistons with +6.4cc Valve Reliefs
Perfect Circle Plasma-Moly Rings
Clevite TM77 Rod and Main Bearings
SFI Approved Professional Products Balancer
SFI Approved TCI Flexplate
Rotating Assembly Fully Balanced (Have Memo with all the weights, it was faxed to me from the company as I lost the original sheet)
Melling M155HV Oil Pump w/ Milodon Pump Bracket, hardened drive shaft, ARP Pump Stud
Moroso 7qt Kicked out Zinc Finish Pan with Matching bolt-on pick-up
LS7 Lifters
New (Comp Cams iirc) Replacement Lifter Spider and Anti-Rotation Link Bars
Herron Billet Aluminum Oil Pump Drive w/ factory gear
Lunati Cam
Lunati Billet True Roller Single-Row Timing Set (For Gen 1 Opti Design)
All Fasteners are ARP (Including the oil pan), except the ones for the lifter spider and the oil pump drive hold down bolt.
(Thanks 93Z2871805) Just picked up a short-block ready to go this weekend complete with gently used MSD opti and gaskets. I got a deal MUCH cheaper than buying all the parts, buying a junk shortblock, and paying a machine shop. Now I just got to get my heads ported and put her all back together. Hopefully, this bottom end is a bit overkill for my goals of 420ish RWHP with Ai 200cc heads. What's the maximum SAFE RPM you can spin this thing?6800?Here's the specs:
93 LT1 block, fully machined (Block cleaned, magnafluxed, bored with deck plate, splayed caps installed, line bored/honed, core plugs installed, Durabond cam bearings installed, clean up milled with around .005 removed, stroker clearanced)
Eagle Billet Splayed Caps w/ ARP Studs/Bolts
Ohio 4340 Forged Crankshaft
Ohio 4340 H-Beam 5.7 Rods w/ ARP 2000 Bolts
Keith Black Forged Pistons with +6.4cc Valve Reliefs
Perfect Circle Plasma-Moly Rings
Clevite TM77 Rod and Main Bearings
SFI Approved Professional Products Balancer
SFI Approved TCI Flexplate
Rotating Assembly Fully Balanced (Have Memo with all the weights, it was faxed to me from the company as I lost the original sheet)
Melling M155HV Oil Pump w/ Milodon Pump Bracket, hardened drive shaft, ARP Pump Stud
Moroso 7qt Kicked out Zinc Finish Pan with Matching bolt-on pick-up
LS7 Lifters
New (Comp Cams iirc) Replacement Lifter Spider and Anti-Rotation Link Bars
Herron Billet Aluminum Oil Pump Drive w/ factory gear
Lunati Cam
Lunati Billet True Roller Single-Row Timing Set (For Gen 1 Opti Design)
All Fasteners are ARP (Including the oil pan), except the ones for the lifter spider and the oil pump drive hold down bolt.
07-12-2011, 10:52 AM
#19
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/LU...n/?prefilter=1
Looks like it's made for 92-93 LT1s however (mines 94)...hmmm dude said he was planning on an electric water pump, does that mean I MUST get an electric water pump now? (I bought a new stock waterpump when I did the stock rebuild about a year ago already and was planning on re-using it since it's got less than 5K on it).