Electric water pump
01-20-2012, 11:06 PM
#21
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it takes roughly 12 horsepower to push the stock pump to 70 GPM
the electric pumps draw around 7 amps at 14V for ~ 100 watts...
A watt is 1/746 of 1 horsepower.
it is not physically possible that en electric pump can flow more than the stock unit at *>2500-3500 rpm.
my head hurts... back to getting wastie pants!
the electric pumps draw around 7 amps at 14V for ~ 100 watts...
A watt is 1/746 of 1 horsepower.
it is not physically possible that en electric pump can flow more than the stock unit at *>2500-3500 rpm.
my head hurts... back to getting wastie pants!
01-20-2012, 11:12 PM
#22
Sadly you are the average moron who believes in perpetual motion.
The electric pump is turned by the electrical system which is powered by the engine through the alternator. So please explain in detail how that eliminates parasitic drag on the engine?
Your belief that turning rotation to electricity then back to rotation gains work output than just using the original rotation to do work means you believe in perpetual motion. Please put your vast knowledge to use solving the world's energy needs and not wasting your time here.
Following your reasoning we could use a weedwacker motor to turn an alternator then use that output to turn a motor that turns another larger alternator gaining power output each time, just put a big string of them together and run the whole world off one weedwacker engine.
Sadly like I said in the first sentence, this makes you completely average, it seems that a substantial number of folks believe as you do, maybe even a majority believe it but break it down to the science of it and it is just stupidity.
People think I am against the electric pumps, not the case, I even have experience with them because they are worth a little more power to the wheels. What I am against is the perpetuation of this stupidity about them being magically able to do more work with less energy input despite two energy form changes which are inherently inefficient. Nobody actually bothers to understand anything anymore.
I do think the belief in magical waterpumps causes them to be used by folks who would not if they actually understood how the power gain to the wheels was achieved. That is not to say they are a bad product.
01-20-2012, 11:31 PM
#23
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Damn...everybody gettin all worked up. I stated i am going to use the stock unit for mainly the reliabitity issue, electrical units break down. Without warning i could be on the side of the road wishing i had stuck with the stock unit. Sorry guys i think the GM engineers knew what they were doing on this one as far as flow and reliability...not to mention the fact if u break a belt u can still drive home and not burn up your motor. Stocker for me thanks. Now how about the 503 please.
01-20-2012, 11:36 PM
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503, it's alright for off the shelf... can have a custom grind for the same price from LE or AI...
better to get something made for your current needs rather than something that "sounds good"
better to get something made for your current needs rather than something that "sounds good"
01-20-2012, 11:53 PM
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Not looking for something that sounds good at all. I like the 503 for the fact that it works well with the stock heads unported. I cam have Delta Cams grind me any cam at half the cost.
01-21-2012, 12:53 AM
#27
Sadly you are the average moron who believes in perpetual motion.
The electric pump is turned by the electrical system which is powered by the engine through the alternator. So please explain in detail how that eliminates parasitic drag on the engine?
Your belief that turning rotation to electricity then back to rotation gains work output than just using the original rotation to do work means you believe in perpetual motion. Please put your vast knowledge to use solving the world's energy needs and not wasting your time here.
Following your reasoning we could use a weedwacker motor to turn an alternator then use that output to turn a motor that turns another larger alternator gaining power output each time, just put a big string of them together and run the whole world off one weedwacker engine.
Sadly like I said in the first sentence, this makes you completely average, it seems that a substantial number of folks believe as you do, maybe even a majority believe it but break it down to the science of it and it is just stupidity.
People think I am against the electric pumps, not the case, I even have experience with them because they are worth a little more power to the wheels. What I am against is the perpetuation of this stupidity about them being magically able to do more work with less energy input despite two energy form changes which are inherently inefficient. Nobody actually bothers to understand anything anymore.
I do think the belief in magical waterpumps causes them to be used by folks who would not if they actually understood how the power gain to the wheels was achieved. That is not to say they are a bad product.
The electric pump is turned by the electrical system which is powered by the engine through the alternator. So please explain in detail how that eliminates parasitic drag on the engine?
Your belief that turning rotation to electricity then back to rotation gains work output than just using the original rotation to do work means you believe in perpetual motion. Please put your vast knowledge to use solving the world's energy needs and not wasting your time here.
Following your reasoning we could use a weedwacker motor to turn an alternator then use that output to turn a motor that turns another larger alternator gaining power output each time, just put a big string of them together and run the whole world off one weedwacker engine.
Sadly like I said in the first sentence, this makes you completely average, it seems that a substantial number of folks believe as you do, maybe even a majority believe it but break it down to the science of it and it is just stupidity.
People think I am against the electric pumps, not the case, I even have experience with them because they are worth a little more power to the wheels. What I am against is the perpetuation of this stupidity about them being magically able to do more work with less energy input despite two energy form changes which are inherently inefficient. Nobody actually bothers to understand anything anymore.
I do think the belief in magical waterpumps causes them to be used by folks who would not if they actually understood how the power gain to the wheels was achieved. That is not to say they are a bad product.
I understand exactly how the system works. It takes energy to turn both a mechanical pump and an electric pump. It takes engine HP to either turn the water pump directly, or, turn the alternator, which I'm well aware has parasitic drag depending on electrical load. So, here's the explaination you asked for: When the engine is no longer turning the mechanical pump, that completely eliminates the parasitic drag from that process like I stated in my reply: "...eliminate a parasitic drag" - I did not say ALL drag. Concurrently, the amount of parasitic drag by the alternator will increase, and yes, I didn't put that in my reply but it seems like I should have now. This parasitic loss from the alternator is minimal in comparison to the HP draw from mechanically turning the pump. That is how electric water pumps free up power, NOT, as you stated, because they "move less water than a factory pump." That all comes down to the efficieny of the pump: GPH vs amps. The bottom line is that the elimination of the mechanical parasitic drag on the factory water pump is far greater than the added parasitic drag from the load increase on the alternator by an electric water pump.
In your statement you are infering that if an electric pump was setup to move as much water as the factory pump, it would use so much current, and consequently parasitic drag by the alternator, that there would be no HP saved. That all goes back to the efficiency of the pump itself. These pumps free up power because the energy they use is more efficient, not because they move less water – Whether it's because they were designed to move less on purpose, or because of fitment problems with one that would flow MORE than the factory pump (AND get more power to the ground) - Your statement is both misleading and wrong.
Thanks for taking this thread it to a whole new level. You represent the ******** of the world well.
Apoligies to the OP.
01-21-2012, 08:04 AM
#30
Look it up electrics are FREEFLOW rated this is as installed with the restriction of the system. Being a simple impeller restriction does matter.
You aren't trying to understand the data because your ego can't handle being wrong.
Your idea about VAST gains in efficiency by changing rotation to electricity and then back to rotation is again belief in perpetual motion.
If you use the internet and find the conversions for the 6-8amps the electric pumps use into HP you will find they are not very powerful.
IF you are actually interested in learning something about output and restriction maybe look at sump pumps flow rates for a rated HP and the flow losses with the restriction of lifting the water. Then again look at the graph we have been throwing around and look at what the stat restriction did the the L98 pump, the LT1 pump was just designed to recirculate rather than deadhead against the stat hence the difference but both open stat specs are still restricted by the engine water jacket and cooling system.
Again my problem here is NOT electric pumps it is the junk science thrown around to support their choices.
You aren't trying to understand the data because your ego can't handle being wrong.
Your idea about VAST gains in efficiency by changing rotation to electricity and then back to rotation is again belief in perpetual motion.
If you use the internet and find the conversions for the 6-8amps the electric pumps use into HP you will find they are not very powerful.
IF you are actually interested in learning something about output and restriction maybe look at sump pumps flow rates for a rated HP and the flow losses with the restriction of lifting the water. Then again look at the graph we have been throwing around and look at what the stat restriction did the the L98 pump, the LT1 pump was just designed to recirculate rather than deadhead against the stat hence the difference but both open stat specs are still restricted by the engine water jacket and cooling system.
Again my problem here is NOT electric pumps it is the junk science thrown around to support their choices.
01-21-2012, 08:46 AM
#31
01-21-2012, 09:49 AM
#32
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EWP's and stock good or bad, but if you Wana run a Double roller timing set EWP is the only choice. I run a MEZ EWP and have a spare stocker to put on when it ***** the bed and needs a rebuild .. I chose to keep the stock timing and drive gear and can enjoy either... I hit lots of traffic and highway driving with a/c and never have temps over 180 in Hott *** Florida .
01-21-2012, 10:54 AM
#34
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again, my little graph was drawn below what the pumps were actually rated at FREE FLOW... with the restrictions I think the graph is fairly close to what it is actually, seeing as the lt1 pump was tested with a tstat...
love you guys. but please, I drew it comparing apples to apples, like what if GM said whatever engine had 400 HP compared it to oh say ford with 400 RWHP...
love you guys. but please, I drew it comparing apples to apples, like what if GM said whatever engine had 400 HP compared it to oh say ford with 400 RWHP...
01-21-2012, 02:00 PM
#36
Ever jump start another car and the one doing the jumping you can hear the idle change when the cables are hooked up.
Alternator load on the belt does change with electrical demands, we have been over this many times on forum.
Far as the battery do you think a car battery is like a regular disposable alkaline battery where it is charged from the factory and that is it? You must since you believe battery drain does not affect the engine load.
The battery is there to start the engine the alternator runs the electrical system and recharges the battery.
Far as the timing chain argument, everyone loves to hate the stock timing chain but the "problems" with it are far more perceived than real.
01-21-2012, 02:32 PM
#37
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My factory pump and chain have last 186k and 19 years from the factory with ZERO issues....and i am not about to start messing with that for 10 horsepower. No way i will take reliability over that gain any day.
01-21-2012, 02:42 PM
#38
That makes you brighter than most.
Yes an extra few HP at the tire with an electric pump can be nice when going for personal bests and yes on a really dialed in setup an adjustable timing set could be nice, BUT IMO these things are rammed down everyone's throats too much and suggested as entry level mods.
I just want folks to UNDERSTAND things before diving in and in the eyes of many that makes me some sort of villain.
Yes an extra few HP at the tire with an electric pump can be nice when going for personal bests and yes on a really dialed in setup an adjustable timing set could be nice, BUT IMO these things are rammed down everyone's throats too much and suggested as entry level mods.
I just want folks to UNDERSTAND things before diving in and in the eyes of many that makes me some sort of villain.
01-21-2012, 03:03 PM
#40
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it's just the way u put things that puts people off
The 503 cam will work OK with the stock heads and it will respond very well to bolt-ons also. I have no first hand experience with this but many have reported positive results.
I still like the electric water pump. Breaking it down in simple terms kinda goes like this. One reason that it is more efficient is that the impeller design is a machined aluminum piece with very well designed blades. (Fins). They are rounded and of the proper shape to aid in water flow and resist cavitation. The factory stamped steel, flat bladed is all about production costs and not efficiency. If our cooling systems hold about 4 gallons then 55 gallons is just about 15 times a minute or once every 4 seconds that the water in the block and radiator is capable of being exchanged. There are restrictions that slow that down.
I've used the Meziere for years and never had an issue. 70 gallons vs 55 gallons.....Pffft, don't care. Think of it as a 55 gallon drum of water going through your engine in a minute. That's plenty. If you're driving so hard for so long that you're overheating then change the marginal radiator that came from the factory with a nice aluminum unit that has more efficiency. More water flowing through the block won't make the radiator work any better.
I do a bunch of road trips in the Impala and the Vette (Both electric) and I carry a spare pump just in case. I could change it along side the road in less than 20 minutes or less. I've never had to. Electric pumps won't leak onto the Opti either. That's a plus.
This issue is all about personal preference and not so much cooling efficiency perfomance. Either one is fine. I've used both since 1995 and the electric does do better in hot weather, city stop and go traffic. oth work fine any time other than that. IMHO