toomany

I recently picked up a 97 Formula, m6, t-top, pw, pl, cloth, 165,xxx. It needs a motor and clutch (so far that I know of). I'm putting together the list of things I need to/want to replace while I have everything apart, and would like some opinions. I'm not totally new to the 4th gen world, I redid a 94 TransAm a year ago but have since traded that off.

For the motor I plan to have the stock crank checked out and turned if it isn't too far beaten down. Kid I bought the car from said he'd put about 10k miles on it with the "tick." Judging from the sound of it, I doubt he did that many...it's defenetly a knock but a faint one. If the crank turns out to be too far gone I'll pull one from a 1pc rear seal block I have laying around and have that one turned. The rods I'm going to have resized and fitted with ARP bolts. For pistons I'd like to use the stockers depending on the condition of the bores. If they don't spec out then I'll probably toss in a set of SRP forged guys along with some decent rings. Timing set will be replaced with a Cloyes. Oil pump is going to be a Melling or GM replacement. Gaskets will probably be FelPro's or Victors. The opti was done not that long ago along with the water pump (have receipts) so I'm not that concerned with them. Maintenance items like plugs, wires, filters will also be swapped out for new.

The clutch I'm still deciding on what to go with. Any recommendations? I have a feeling that the slave is on it's way out. So, I plan to replace the master and slave (hopefully with a pre-bled set), figured with that many miles it can't hurt.

Car already has CAI, long tube Pacesetters, ORY, catback and a tune. It runs very strong, despite the knock and chattering clutch. The plan is for a reliable and fun daily driver. After awhile I'll probably do SFC's and a few other upgrades. I'll try to get some pics up within the next few days.

Questions, comments...

fex77k

iTrader: (2)

The slave and master is sold as a whole unit, it cost me about 190 form the dealership. What kind of forged pistons are you looking at?

69gto96z

iTrader: (13)

A good clutch on a budget is a McLeod single disk. I ran this clutch for close to 50k miles, and almost 4 years, daily driven behind a cam only motor that has seen close to 7k rpms quite often. Never had a single slipping issue until the clutch was on its way out.

ls1ya

iTrader: (2)

Do not rebuild and get stock numbers. I wish I would have had the knowledge or input from knowledgeable people to tell me this my first go around. You have options stroke to 383, pick up a ls1 or 6.0. But please don't put a stock LT back in there.

toomany

I used a set of SRP's in the late Lt1 I did, and was happy with the results. I think these were it (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SRP-138089/). They were a craigslist score. I'm open to other brands, would like to stick a forged in if I need to replace.

I'm finding the pre-bled units from $107 to $180. Any particular brands to stay away from?



McLeod was on the list, I'll look at them a little closer.



Why do you say that? I'm content with the stock displacement. I'm not trying to build a street demon out of this thing, just a fun daily driver. If all of my cranks turn out to be junk (doubt that'll happen), then I might look to stroking. I'm already ***** deep into an 88 Z28 build, full repaint, cage, drag suspension, 496 bbc swap. So if I feel the need for speed I can drive that.

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

A stroker doesn't make power though HEADS and cam make power, a stroker can just support more cam and more head.

If someone is on a budget the money is way better spent on topend than the bottomend.

I understand the OP is repairing the bottomend so therefore he needs to put money there first. Just wanted to make it clear putting a stoker crank in with untouched heads will not make power as many seem to believe it will.

WS Sick

I understand what you are saying, but with everything else equal and all you do is add CI your power does rise by the same percentage. Most people just think 170cc heads and a 220 cam are good in a 383 for 400 rwhp.

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

Can you document that???

toomany

As promised here are some pics of what I'm working with.

At a gas station shortly after loading it up.









Crammed into my garage. You can see my other project, 88 Z28, in the background.





Hopefully once the weather clears up I'll be able to get the car outside and drop the motor and trans out. Would have done it this last week but we got a few inches of snow.

WS Sick

Can I document it...lol, if you need documentation for that then you need a physics class. If all things are the same between two engines and the only difference is the cubic inches the engine with the more cubic inches WILL make more power and make it sooner. FACT.

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

I have seen a kid have a 383 built that with headers made the same HP as a stock engine with stock exhaust.

WS Sick

Here is an exert from a person much smarter than the two of us.

An engine is nothing more than an air pump. The displacement of the engine is merely the size of the pump. The whole object to making power is to pull-in a given amount of air (what an air pump does) and mix it with fuel. The more air you can pull in with a given mixture of fuel, the bigger the bang, which = more power. A small air pump is going to have to spin much faster to take in an equal amount of air that a larger air pump can do by spinning slower. So think of a little 327 Chevy and how high it's going to have to rev to pull-in the same amount of fuel and air as a 454. For every rotation of that 454, it is taking-in 127 more cubic inches of fuel and air. So for a 327 to make the same amount of power as a 454, itis going to have to spin much faster. Obviously at say, 6,000 RPM each engine is taking-in a given amount of fuel and air, so it is pretty obvious that the bigger 454 is simply going to make more power at a lower RPM. These days we are adding big stroker cranks to smaller engines and are getting 454 cubes out of small blocks, so a 454 cubic inch small block won't have to rev any higher (per say) than a big block 454 would because 454 cubic inches is 454 cubic inches. This is why in days gone-by, small blocks had the be reved to super high RPMs to get the kind of flow needed to make any decent power. We don't need to do that these days because of better flowing heads, better cam profiles and more displacement via stroker cranks.

WS Sick

And from your response you are not getting what I am saying, yes if someone throws a bunch of crap together it will result in crap.

fex77k

iTrader: (2)

If you can swing it I would definately upgrade to a forged piston.

As far as the pre-bled I bought it at the dealership for 190. I don't know what brand they call them.

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

WS Sick,
Yes an engine is an airpump of sorts but 100% of the air comes and goes through the heads as controlled by the cam. As such those items have a much greater effect on power than the bottomend.

The same heads and cam on a stroker do not make 10% more power they make more average torque and a similar HP number at a lower rpm, this is why strokers use a longer duration cam. The extra displacement moves the volume of air the heads/cam can flow happen at a lower rpm.

If you look at the high HP stock shortblock ported heads stuff 420s is definetely doable. Slap the same heads on 383s with 6degrees more cam and they make up in the 440-450s. That is less than a 10% gain including the cam upgrade. By your argument the displacement alone should be worth 10%(rounding off, a 385 would be a full 10% displacement gain). This is also neglecting the fact the well done strokers should have better parts and machining in the shortblock which should add power too.

WS Sick

I think what you are missing is I agree with you , youre arguiing over 2 percent.

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

Not 2%.
Compare bowtienut's 425rwhp impala to RamAir95TA's 455rwhp 383, same heads, the stroker has 9degrees more cam duration in addition to the 33ci to get 7.5% more power.
Other noteable variables I know of are the Impala has an 1 5/8" tri-Y not a HP header, but the TA has a 9" rear which soaks up some power so let's just call that a wash.
I don't know what bowtienut got the compression up to but I bet it is less than the 12.8 that Joe got in the stroker.

nickp

iTrader: (2)

that thing looks pretty clean. what did u give for it?

WS Sick

Since youre splitting hairs, were they on the same dyno , the same day etc etc, you could pick this apart with chosen powerplants til the end of time, but the fact remains that the more cubic inches made more power than the smaller cube moter. Move to the torque curve and the difference is even more glaring. I am with you that everyone should not just throw a 383 together with parts from their favorite catalog and then have Bob down the street assemble the thing because he had a "runnin" 327 implala back in HS.

esoteric18

I have seen a 383 put down 270 to the wheels. super low compression build by an idiot.