95 lt1 383 stroker project questions
05-13-2012, 01:11 PM
#21
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You will get that a lot from him. He still doesn't understand how to talk to people in a reasonable manner. It's been going on for years. Just wait until you purchase/install a part that he doesn't agree with, then he'll tell you how "blind" you are.
Do the bottom end as strong as you can so it will take whatever punishment you might throw at it later on. The only problem I see is that you haven't decided on heads yet. That will effect your piston choice based on chamber volume. Are you running n/a? If so You will want static compression to be around 11.5/12-1. Check out the chamber volumes of some ported heads. Some keep it the same while others remove a little material. Also, if your block ends up getting decked a significant amount the pistons may be flush with the deck. Running different thickness head gaskets can get you ideally where you want, but it's better to know the entire package that you want to run right now before you purchase anything. I think the cam you have picked out is going to be too mild for a 383. You'll be leaving a lot of power on the table with a cam like that.
Do the bottom end as strong as you can so it will take whatever punishment you might throw at it later on. The only problem I see is that you haven't decided on heads yet. That will effect your piston choice based on chamber volume. Are you running n/a? If so You will want static compression to be around 11.5/12-1. Check out the chamber volumes of some ported heads. Some keep it the same while others remove a little material. Also, if your block ends up getting decked a significant amount the pistons may be flush with the deck. Running different thickness head gaskets can get you ideally where you want, but it's better to know the entire package that you want to run right now before you purchase anything. I think the cam you have picked out is going to be too mild for a 383. You'll be leaving a lot of power on the table with a cam like that.
05-13-2012, 01:25 PM
#22
Bigger cubes will tame a camshaft. A 232/240 would be large for a 350/355 but would still work with the factory pcm 7k rpm cap. On a 383 it would peak even lower. I don't know what your goals are with the car, so I can't really recommend a camshaft. Plus a single plane intake would be more ideal if you were going to spin it high. You haven't really stated what you do with the car. Do you go to the track at all?
05-13-2012, 05:31 PM
#26
LOL, I wouldn't recommend a 414 for anybody, but I picked it up for a song. I never tell people to take their engines out this far, but it can be done if you pick and choose the parts correctly, mainly the rods.
05-13-2012, 06:20 PM
#27
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Bigger cubes will tame a camshaft. A 232/240 would be large for a 350/355 but would still work with the factory pcm 7k rpm cap. On a 383 it would peak even lower. I don't know what your goals are with the car, so I can't really recommend a camshaft. Plus a single plane intake would be more ideal if you were going to spin it high. You haven't really stated what you do with the car. Do you go to the track at all?
05-13-2012, 07:00 PM
#28
It will be n/a. I am not trying to be the fastest car out there and I have taken it to the track one time in the many years I have owned it. I would like to go back to national trails again someday but not high on the priority list. This car gets about 2-3k miles per year but I do like to "get on it" a few times when I do take it out. If I was putting down about 450 rwhp I would be happy with that.
Cylinder heads with a minimum of 200cc intake port, a 210 will work good, anything over 225 will probably want a solid roller and big rpm, so stick 200-210.
Camshaft- I'd run something around 240/248 give or take a little, that will keep you under the 7k cap of the factory pcm. You don't have to run something with that much split if the heads you pick have a strong exhaust flow in relation to the intake. The better the exhaust flows then you can close the exhaust duration up a bit such as 240/244 (example). If you get a ported set from one of the vendors in here, usually they will have camshaft packages too, so tell them your goals. As far as driveability goes, that is 90% tune related. Anyone that tells you a particular cam has a lot of surge, needs to get it tuned better. Only radically cammed cars in relation to a small amount of cubes should have this issue.
Compression- again try to hit near 12-1, you'll need the block machined first to see where the pistons sit in the hole. Plus a .020" bore will be different from a .040" bore for compression.
Intake- I don't think a stock untouched intake will get you there. It will need to be ported.
05-13-2012, 07:18 PM
#29
To hit 450rwhp you'd need about 525 at the flywheel for a t56 car. I'm not gonna recommend any particular BRAND of parts because that just upsets the internet heroes who worship their particular stuff, but here goes:
Cylinder heads with a minimum of 200cc intake port, a 210 will work good, anything over 225 will probably want a solid roller and big rpm, so stick 200-210.
Camshaft- I'd run something around 240/248 give or take a little, that will keep you under the 7k cap of the factory pcm. You don't have to run something with that much split if the heads you pick have a strong exhaust flow in relation to the intake. The better the exhaust flows then you can close the exhaust duration up a bit such as 240/244 (example). If you get a ported set from one of the vendors in here, usually they will have camshaft packages too, so tell them your goals. As far as driveability goes, that is 90% tune related. Anyone that tells you a particular cam has a lot of surge, needs to get it tuned better. Only radically cammed cars in relation to a small amount of cubes should have this issue.
Compression- again try to hit near 12-1, you'll need the block machined first to see where the pistons sit in the hole. Plus a .020" bore will be different from a .040" bore for compression.
Intake- I don't think a stock untouched intake will get you there. It will need to be ported.
Cylinder heads with a minimum of 200cc intake port, a 210 will work good, anything over 225 will probably want a solid roller and big rpm, so stick 200-210.
Camshaft- I'd run something around 240/248 give or take a little, that will keep you under the 7k cap of the factory pcm. You don't have to run something with that much split if the heads you pick have a strong exhaust flow in relation to the intake. The better the exhaust flows then you can close the exhaust duration up a bit such as 240/244 (example). If you get a ported set from one of the vendors in here, usually they will have camshaft packages too, so tell them your goals. As far as driveability goes, that is 90% tune related. Anyone that tells you a particular cam has a lot of surge, needs to get it tuned better. Only radically cammed cars in relation to a small amount of cubes should have this issue.
Compression- again try to hit near 12-1, you'll need the block machined first to see where the pistons sit in the hole. Plus a .020" bore will be different from a .040" bore for compression.
Intake- I don't think a stock untouched intake will get you there. It will need to be ported.
Take it from someone like Joelster who has been there, those are some good guidelines to follow to easily reach your goal. Of course installation, attention to detail, and supporting mods will play a huge factor but it will be a great start.
05-13-2012, 09:02 PM
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You could detune my old 396 build a bit and get there pretty easily. The devil's really in the details with a good stroker build and good machine work can't be stressed enough. The one place I'll never skimp are cylinder heads and valvetrain. Broken valvetrain parts will ruin a $20k short-block, and that doesn't mean you should go Jesel, but spend money on quality parts that are proven and reliable.
For camshafts, I wouldn't buy anything off the shelf because a few bucks extra gets you a custom grind with the correct springs and retainers, and there are some really nice lobes out there... and I dare say, quite a bit better than they were even 5 years ago.
Headwork is really where it's at (don't skimp) and the rest is a matter of getting power to the ground reliably.
For camshafts, I wouldn't buy anything off the shelf because a few bucks extra gets you a custom grind with the correct springs and retainers, and there are some really nice lobes out there... and I dare say, quite a bit better than they were even 5 years ago.
Headwork is really where it's at (don't skimp) and the rest is a matter of getting power to the ground reliably.
05-13-2012, 09:05 PM
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BTW Joelster, how many people told you the 4" stroke was a silly thing to do?
Just wondering if it's as bad here as it is on the other boards out there.
Joe Sherman use to (probably still does) build some really nasty short-deck 4" stroke engines... put a lot of naysayers back on the trailer, for sure.
Just wondering if it's as bad here as it is on the other boards out there.
Joe Sherman use to (probably still does) build some really nasty short-deck 4" stroke engines... put a lot of naysayers back on the trailer, for sure.
05-13-2012, 09:23 PM
#32
https://ls1tech.com/forums/vehicle-c...k-reduced.html
There is your recipe for 455rwhp through an A4 so it would dyno higher with a M6.
Bet this car would be close though a M6. But it is just a 350.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-m...1-119-7-a.html
Or if you want to buy aftermarket heads how about this. It really is way beyond your goal though.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-m...o-results.html
If you wanted to do solid roller 355 and ported stock heads/intake you could try this.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-m...-dyno-vid.html
Actual combos you can duplicate.
There is your recipe for 455rwhp through an A4 so it would dyno higher with a M6.
Bet this car would be close though a M6. But it is just a 350.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-m...1-119-7-a.html
Or if you want to buy aftermarket heads how about this. It really is way beyond your goal though.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-m...o-results.html
If you wanted to do solid roller 355 and ported stock heads/intake you could try this.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-m...-dyno-vid.html
Actual combos you can duplicate.
05-13-2012, 09:26 PM
#33
You could detune my old 396 build a bit and get there pretty easily. The devil's really in the details with a good stroker build and good machine work can't be stressed enough. The one place I'll never skimp are cylinder heads and valvetrain. Broken valvetrain parts will ruin a $20k short-block, and that doesn't mean you should go Jesel, but spend money on quality parts that are proven and reliable.
For camshafts, I wouldn't buy anything off the shelf because a few bucks extra gets you a custom grind with the correct springs and retainers, and there are some really nice lobes out there... and I dare say, quite a bit better than they were even 5 years ago.
Headwork is really where it's at (don't skimp) and the rest is a matter of getting power to the ground reliably.
For camshafts, I wouldn't buy anything off the shelf because a few bucks extra gets you a custom grind with the correct springs and retainers, and there are some really nice lobes out there... and I dare say, quite a bit better than they were even 5 years ago.
Headwork is really where it's at (don't skimp) and the rest is a matter of getting power to the ground reliably.
Comp for one has some ridiculous solid roller lobes out these days, and if you are willing to spend the coin on a modern quality valvetrain to handle it then you can hake some serious power. My cam would be considered a race grind 10 years ago, but with my valvetrain setup I plan on getting 5k+ miles out of it between maintenance
.You gotta pay to play though, so expect to spend more in lifters/pushrods/springs/rockers then some people spend on their cylinder heads. Wanna spin over 7k reliably? Then shaftmounts may be a worthy investment and will push that number up even higher.
Shame we are bore limited by our cylinder head choice, since there is a whole world of LT1 potential available by converting SBC race heads to reverse cooling...we just don't have the cubes/bore size to run them...
I would love to do a feasible SB2.2 LT1 using takeoff Cup heads like Dave did back in the day. I dream about 700+hp pump gas LT1s in first gen Camaros.
05-13-2012, 10:43 PM
#34
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BTW Joelster, how many people told you the 4" stroke was a silly thing to do?
Just wondering if it's as bad here as it is on the other boards out there.
Joe Sherman use to (probably still does) build some really nasty short-deck 4" stroke engines... put a lot of naysayers back on the trailer, for sure.
Just wondering if it's as bad here as it is on the other boards out there.
Joe Sherman use to (probably still does) build some really nasty short-deck 4" stroke engines... put a lot of naysayers back on the trailer, for sure.
You are one of the few other people I've seen running TPIS longtubes. I love mine.
Those are some excellent build threads that Caprice mentioned for you to copy. I know that Alan's (Thunderchicken) would be easy to duplicate. It's not cheap, but it doesn't use anything "exotic" either.
05-13-2012, 11:08 PM
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Joe built a 408 for me some years back (4.125 bore variant) when I was more interested in drag than road racing. He's not the most technical guy out there, but he knows what works and where to spend the money; real straight shooting guy which is what I like most about him.
The TPIS headers on my car are showing their age, but the design is top-notch; great spark plug access, collector location is good, etc.. I was thinking about switching them out for a set of Kooks but the more I think about it, I'll probably pull them and send them out to Swain for ceramic coating.
Puck,
You can run a 15/18 on a 4.0 bore, but you have to use a smaller valve than most of the CNC jobbers come with, that and/or notch the top of the cylinders. Smaller valve would be the way to go, though... with the 23º heads on the market now, you can make a lot of power... but even then, the bigger heads are designed around a 4.125+ bore...
I think for an "all out" type build, I'd just go to a 4.125 block, which has a lot of other advantages too, like 55mm cam core, priority main oiling, etc.
The TPIS headers on my car are showing their age, but the design is top-notch; great spark plug access, collector location is good, etc.. I was thinking about switching them out for a set of Kooks but the more I think about it, I'll probably pull them and send them out to Swain for ceramic coating.
Puck,
You can run a 15/18 on a 4.0 bore, but you have to use a smaller valve than most of the CNC jobbers come with, that and/or notch the top of the cylinders. Smaller valve would be the way to go, though... with the 23º heads on the market now, you can make a lot of power... but even then, the bigger heads are designed around a 4.125+ bore...
I think for an "all out" type build, I'd just go to a 4.125 block, which has a lot of other advantages too, like 55mm cam core, priority main oiling, etc.
Last edited by Melkor; 05-13-2012 at 11:15 PM.
05-13-2012, 11:39 PM
#36
Puck,
You can run a 15/18 on a 4.0 bore, but you have to use a smaller valve than most of the CNC jobbers come with, that and/or notch the top of the cylinders. Smaller valve would be the way to go, though... with the 23º heads on the market now, you can make a lot of power... but even then, the bigger heads are designed around a 4.125+ bore...
I think for an "all out" type build, I'd just go to a 4.125 block, which has a lot of other advantages too, like 55mm cam core, priority main oiling, etc.
A 4.125" block would be great...
05-13-2012, 11:47 PM
#37
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I read ya loud and clear.
If that were my goal, I'd just swap to the gen1 block and from there, as you know, the $ky is the limit. There are NA small blocks making 1000hp on the latest canted/splayed valve stuff, so it's just a matter of cubic inches (and dollars) at that point.
I thought Dart was going to build a big-bore casting? Guessing that fell through? I've been away from the LTx for almost 6 years now...
If that were my goal, I'd just swap to the gen1 block and from there, as you know, the $ky is the limit. There are NA small blocks making 1000hp on the latest canted/splayed valve stuff, so it's just a matter of cubic inches (and dollars) at that point.
I thought Dart was going to build a big-bore casting? Guessing that fell through? I've been away from the LTx for almost 6 years now...
05-14-2012, 06:08 AM
#38
Most of the know-it-alls in here probably have no clue who Joe Sherman is, lol.
05-14-2012, 06:57 AM
#39
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And to think if you didn't have a 2900lb roller for all those cubes you too would be right along with the rest of us 11 and 12 second "LS1tech EXPERTS."
How silly is that? Contrary to yours and the other super sensitives here, Caprice is one of those that has good info to share. Not even sure why you hang around here since most all you do in this section is complain.
How silly is that? Contrary to yours and the other super sensitives here, Caprice is one of those that has good info to share. Not even sure why you hang around here since most all you do in this section is complain.
05-14-2012, 04:09 PM
#40
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Lighten up mate... just a bit of talk about engines, nothing worth getting too serious over.
There's a lot of "silliness" that goes on in this hobby; always has been. Billet rods in 10-second cars is silly too, but who cares, let em spend their money. Anyone can go 10's these days with a bit of cash... it's all been done before and copying builds has been done before too. Sometimes that pans out, most times the results leave a bit to be desired. Easy to get caught up in the sales pitches and parts lists but then, that's marketing, propaganda and racing in general.
Cheers