96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

I would consider hollow valves for a max effort street/strip build but not titanium. A friend has titanium in a pretty wild gen 1 and the $150 apiece DelWest valves need $30 apiece in coating to keep them alive on the street and then it need a valvejob and rocoating pretty much annually meaning recoating at $30 apiece. That valvettrain was developed on a spintron and they got it down to less seat pressure on a .800+lift solid roller than my hydraulic stuff runs so it isn't too much seat pressure it is just the nature of the beast.

Honestly if you are serious about wanting to spend this sort of coin I would sooner do a 383 and keep the valvetrain a bit more routine. The stroker will let you use a little more duration inside a given rpm range. It wont gain you as much power as some people claim but it is worth power over a 350/355.
A set of AI ported Trickflows and let them spec the valvetrain.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-m...o-results.html
Now unfortunately the guy broke the car before he got to the track so we haven't seen track results but when you look at what the other AI topped engines do and consider this is CNC work so it is consistent it is fair to expect it to run well once the car is back up and running.

SS RRR

iTrader: (2)

WTF do you know u nevar bult strokkers b4!!111
I really wish to see what kind of results that car has. I'd love to go back to hydraulic and keep relatively the same power peak and curve.

draggin97s10

iTrader: (2)

Just buy Joe's car..I would.

TwoFast4Lv

iTrader: (8)

I would use at least Morel Lifters. I ran them for 6 year spinning to 7,200 every pass then stuffed them in my Wife's car

Here is a real goal for you. My Wife's daily driven 383 was built for under $5k and it includes LE ported AFR 210s I only runs 11s but she loves it to death

BIGCAT7274

please dont take this the wrong way but you parts list does not make much sense. you dont need shaft rockers and ti valves. save the money but ss valves and conventional rockers. build a nice forged short block. the stock rods and crank wont live long at 7,200.

as for the power difrence between solid and hyd is going to vary depending on the cam profiles. there is to many vairables to make a half *** accurate guess. you can run a high ratio rocker. we used to run 1.7's with no problems. we only stoped useing them because we changed cams. if you run the right parts 7,200 is not a problem.

93Euphoria

Thanks for the info. Yeah I dont want to be one of those guys who builds a car and you never hear from him again. I certainly dont want to regret it on my first. It will be my first and one of my buddies (Owns a 97 Firehawk) said he would help me with the build. Not on this forum though. I ask him why and he says too much misinformation and a waste of time. He has a ASE certification. Ive decided to build it on our own and build it right so im planning carefully. My parts list may sound crazy but trying to build it as reliable as possible still being able to challenge LS7's, LS2's, ect... Ive never built an engine and experience tells but im gambling with this build. Most guys recommend for me to just order some heads from A.I and a budget eagle 383. I want something more exotic. First build will be 355-358. Mainly H/C/I. Bored out a little then later on down the road when I get tired of a little 355-358, Id want to stroke it for an extra boost in power. For the first phase of the build ill be hoping for anywhere above 400+rwhp. Then Once stroked 500+rwhp. Maybe before the stroker ill just say the heck with it and do an "V-LT1/4" Swap But excuse me if I make new threads asking newbie type questions. How crazy can I get with the top end before go over board? Ill be rebuilding the bottom end(clevite bearings, cam bearings, ARP everywhere, aftermarket mains) with stock crank & reconditioned stock rods. Mahle or J.E forged pistons. First phase will be a high rpm build. The reason I chose shaft mounts because I want a stout valve train to handle high rpms as high as 7-8. Suggestions will be appreciated.

BTW whats up with Joes car? Joe you should make a thread with lots of eye candy

fex77k

iTrader: (2)

I dont see you going past 7800 rpms. If you keep the valvetrain weight low the you would be surprized what kind of lifter you can get away with. The only reason for a massive tappet is for outrageous open pressures. I doubt you would be able to find a machine shop that will do that to an lt1 block with out killing you on price.

gjohnsonws6

iTrader: (12)

You are not going to get that kind of rpm (reliably) out of reconditioned stock rods. Wheels are round and they have worked well for thousands of years. Quit trying to re invent them.Get your crank polished or turned if necessary. Add a decent forged 6.0 rod and some nice pistons,rings and bearings. Balance the assembly and have the block torque plate honed. Add some decent heads and cam then call it a day. Valvetrain wise ls7 lifters and comp pro mags work well. You are absolutely not going to spin a stock crank and rods to that kinda rpm and expect it to live long. Why would you have a top end built around 8k rpm on a short block that won't handle it?

SS RRR

iTrader: (2)

Whenever you get involved in a rebuild you must consider it as a relationship. You cannot mistreat it or ignore it. If you do you will pay the consequences. If you are in a relationship with a girl then you two must reach a compromise between the time you spend with her and the time you are cheating on her with this build. After you decide what you are going to do you must research machine shops. I would greatly recommend staying away from any internet hero machine shops. Mostly because they either outsource their work so you'll never get a build sheet, or they are just straight up crooks. There's a thread floating around here about Clayton Racing. Supposedly he's a good builder, but he's now taken at least one person for a lot of money and has not bothered to respond.
If there are any local racing boards in your area, sign up and start asking questions about good machine shops. Talk to them, ask for recommendations before you decide who to use, unless you have one that you know is good. You then build a relationship with that shop. There are going to be a lot of questions asked and needing answered between you and the builder before anything is done, and the best way is locally and NOT over the phone.
Your last post has a lot of issues regarding what you're striving for. You will not be able to take your stock PCM past 7000 or 7200rpm (depending on if you're OBDI or OBDII). I think this has already been clarified. I am now sure this question has been asked though- What is your budget for this build? You do have a budget, right?

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

ASE certified means he knows how to read a scanner and swap parts. NO ******* WAY IN HELL does that make him qualified for a performance build. That is not to say he can't be capable, just that ASE certification has NOTHING to do with it.

I have had ASE certified guys ask ME to work on their cars when they wanted to do performance work.

There is a lot of missinformation on the forums that doesn't mean you can't wade through it and pick out some good info and learn from other people's mistakes rather than try and repeat them.

Do you understand what your HP goals mean far as strip performance? A good hydraulic ported GM heads 355 should need a rollbar, a 500+rwhp stroker you would be flirting with a full cage. Is that what you envision for the car?

Do you understand that with popular hydraulic setups and common springs you are looking at valvesprings by 20K miles, if you want to turn more rpm either the cost of the springs will go way up or the change interval will be a lot shorter.

There are thousands of us playing with LT1s, coming here thinking you can come up with some new idea is as stupid as the kids who come and ask if anyone ever thought about blocking off the ERG ports. It has all been done. What you need to do is look for a recipe and result you like and ask the owner what they would do again and maybe more importantly what things they would do a little different if they were to start over.

If you really want to have something a little out of the ordinary like I said start with a proven recipe and talk to the owner about tweaks they would like to try.

If you want to do something wacky for the sake of wacky and still have it maybe pay off a little bit maybe look into getting someone to spintron a valvetrain setup for you. Probably cost a grand but maybe they can get you a 1.7 rocker setup that stays in control or maybe lofts at high rpm for some WOT lift without the daily driving wear on the springs. Probably only gain you 10hp but at least it would be "different" if that is what you want. I can give you the name of the shop a friend uses for exactly that sort of work.

You do understand that say a $3000-3500 topend valvetrain package will get you say 420rwhp, then to get to 450-460 you are looking at the same topend package with a little more cam duration and a $3000-4000 stroker shortblock, then to go solid roller and top 500rwhp you are looking at at least another $1000 in valvetrain and more maintenance as well as some sort of upgraded computer system to turn enough rpm to really use the solid roller stuff which is going to be $2000 for something like the 24x system and even more for aftermarket.

I am not saying nobody should do these things. I am saying the more power you want the more each additional HP cost and the costs are far more than newbs even imagine and I didn't even cover supporting mods, aftermarket heads, converted intakes, tranny or axle upgrades.

This is an expensive hobby and newbs rarely realize how expensive highend results are.

nitrous2fast

iTrader: (2)

Why do you think that the stock crank wont live at 7200 rpms??

Longbob

Stock cast crank will live to at least 7,600. I know this to be a fact. Mine do.

93Euphoria

Love your analogy Ive been saving for awhile now and counting a little bit of my trust funds my budget is a-little over 14 grand. Im still juggling between a Rapist 355 or a Killer 396. 383's Are too common. If I were to stroke I wouldnt be looking for anything lower then 500rwhp but you have to do what you wallet says. If I were to do a bullet proof 396 how well would they like 6500-7200rpms? I know with that CI there is more rotational mass meaning more heat, abuse, higher maintenance. For a 396 my power goal would be 550+RWHP though a 12 bolt. Projected compression would be 12:1 or 11.5:1 on pump gas. I heard there are a few guys running 13:1 compression on pump gas but i could be wrong. No way I dont want 13:1 on pump gas. Let me know your opinion on what route I should go 355 or 396. Thanks guys for the info BTW who would I go to for best of the best tuning?

RamAir95TA

iTrader: (2)

Judging by the (in)accuracies of this post I think you're in way over your head.

Slow. Down.

93Euphoria

Well thats why im asking questions and what is so inaccurate? And you still havent sold your car? haha

Puck

iTrader: (17)

14 grand just for the motor, or whole car? Unless you can do everything yourself that's not enough for a proper "bulletproof" 396. 355 will get away with it since you can reuse stock crank.

You need to plan out your goals and base it on your budget - a 355 and 396 are so completely different that the fact you are still deciding between the two means you are still a long way from being prepared.

With smoking forum deals and shopping smart my 383 is still somewhere between 12-15k just for the motor. That does not include computer, fuel system, transmission, rear end, or any other supporting mod you don't have already (injectors, tune, intake, ect). That 14k will go reeeaalllll fast if you are trying to build a proper stroker.

As for my opinion, I would stick with the 355. Get the CR to ~12:1 (12.5:1 if you have a good tuner already and quality gas in your ares). Spend the biggest part of your budget in your top end. Stock ported intake will be fine for a 355. For heads, you can go as cast heads like AFR 195 that will be plenty of head for a 355 while allowing you tons of room to port later on if you stroke it in the future. TFS 21*s are also a good choice, as are AI 200s(but they will probably want control over the rest of your build as well to make sure everything works together properly...which may not be a bad idea). Let any one of the reputable shops grind you a custom cam - LE, AI, GTP, LPE...any one of the big names can do it. Have the same person who spec'd the cam spec your springs, rockers, and pushrods. Do not skimp on pushrods! It's probably the most common corner cut in a performance build since people don't understand the torture PRs are put through and the effect that has on your whole combo. Send your intake to your porter of choice along with the cylinder head you chose for a proper port matching. Then its just supporting mods that will nickel and dime you and of course attention to detail assembling it before you have a more then capable 355. Your 450 goal is very doable as long as you dot your i's and cross your t's.

Expect to use your whole budget plus a bit extra for any unforeseen issues you will most likely run into on the 355. Don't bother trying to do a 500rwhp stroker with 14k, it won't happen reliably.

SS RRR

iTrader: (2)

There is an old saying somewhere which states if you already have a set budget, go ahead and double it after all is said and done. Sometimes even more than double. That's why IMO you should really keep it simple. I am running a budget stroker build. It has an Eagle crank, Compstar H beam rods and custom JE pistons, splayed caps... can't remember what rings/bearings I am running, but the shortblock was right around 5 or 6K after it was all said and done. You can easily spend more than 7K for the top end depending on how radical you want to go, as Puck said, that's just for the engine. You want 550rwhp you are going to need the components necessary to support that kind of power and that's a new and different ball game.

draggin97s10

iTrader: (2)

Like i said earlier...just buy joe's car...please you will save yourself twice the money. Because you'll only have to buy his car once

fex77k

iTrader: (2)

Or you can buy my 396 right out of my car and save yourself a lot of money. Made 580 hp on the engine dyno, with a street can. Even comes with any of the 5 intakes i have for it.

93Z2871805

iTrader: (5)

The guys in this thread have given you some sound advice, if I were you I'd save myself some money in mistakes and use it wisely.

There is no such thing as "bullet proof." Any engine can break.

Keep in mind we don't race dynos, they are a tuning tool.

As said above, an ASE certification doesn't necessarily make someone qualified to build a performance car.

A good running engine doesn't get that way by the sum of it's parts and the price tag attached to them, but rather by the combination of those parts working in harmony. With that being said, you have to pay-to-play and speed is money, how fast do you want to spend?

383s are common and so are 355s. There is a reason they are so popular, they make power. Also, with a common engine size usually comes parts availability and a reduced price tag because it's not exotic.

The benefit of having something like a 383 or a 396 is that you don't NEED to rev them up high to make power, any engine size can be made to rev high, but with higher rpm comes a more robust valvetrain to control the valve events, and a reduced fatigue life on your components.

LS engines are very capable, and its not just any combination that can stand toe-to-toe with them, but there are a few people in this thread who would have no issues in handing an LS car's *** to them on a platter. I would take their advice.