bufmatmuslepants

iTrader: (3)

I have an EWP, and plan on keeping it. The Rockauto Cloyes set is what I was looking at. I love Rockauto, Ive bought a clutch slave/master and throttle body gasket set and they are all AC delco OEM parts, so whatever I can get from there, I will.

The shortblock is a 94, so that is great news on the main bolts.

Stock shortblock idea is out, it needs a new timing cover seal, and if Im going to go that far, I might as well do a timing set, and if I go that far, might as well do a cam, and then I need springs, and then I should just pull the heads...then blah blah blah SNOWBALL.

With the 0.026 head gaskets I will be around 11.1:1.

My wife is fine with the engine build in the guest room, it was either that or a motorcycle restore in there

bufmatmuslepants

iTrader: (3)

Instead of going out of town this weekend I got called in for 20 hours of OT and decided to spend some of that money on parts, so I just picked up fex77k's old 230/240 cam and some ported assembled heads. The heads have Manley 2.02/1.6 valves and crane dual springs, 130lb closed 402 open, max lift of .710.
http://www.jegs.com/i/Crane-Cams/271/10308-1/10002/-1

The cam specs are


Are the springs I have going to be enough seat pressure to not float up to 7000 or do I need to go up to a 150lb seat? I'm using stock lifters, comp pro mags, 7/16 studs and guide plates. My heads are heavily ported by an unknown porter, and I'm going to cc the chambers and runners when they get here. I'm going to mill them 0.010 probably and deck the block 0.010 to up compression to 12ish to 1, per bowtienut's suggestion.

cardo0

Go ahead use main studs if u want. As usually someone gives their BS for alignhone without explanation. If they actually knew how a stud helps at all they would explain but they dont because they cant - all they can do is pass on hearsay BS.
All a stud will do is fill the bolt hole better - if its properly sized. That reduces main cap walk - nothing to do with compression force distribution or cap distortion - that stays the same. Only other advantage is the studs allow frequent disassemble without ruining the threads in the block.

Same clowns different crap,
cardo

bufmatmuslepants

iTrader: (3)

I don't see how that can be right cardo...higher tensile strength will yield or stretch less as its torqued to a certain ft lb, therefore pulling the cap down slightly more causing an egg shape, same as rod bolts, whether you use main bolts or main studs, I could be wrong tho. Actually no, I'm 99.99% sure I'm right, and I'm going to take Mike Vs word (has a 9 second NA lt1 that he built himself, plus many more) over yours. Studs essentially thread all the way into the block, and the nut is trying to pull the stud out of the block using the cap as leverage, therefore distorting the bore.

Another question I had was rings, since this is a budget rebuild and I have no blow by right now, do I need to rering it or can I just reassemble? This motor is not my final build, if this one survives it will go into a car for my wife and I will build a 399 out of my other shortblock in a year or so and get new everything. I just can't justify spending $300 on total seal rings, I might as well spend $600 on forged pistons, then a bore, then rods, then rebalance, and it snowballs. If I **** something up and it blows, ill only have $1000 invested, I got the heads and cam for a whopping $450 shipped, and so far I've added up $300 to rebuild the bottom end. I don't want to snowball any farther. I have a set goal here, learn to assemble an engine, buy good assembly tools, learn to tune, and run 120 in the 1/4.

bowtienut

iTrader: (1)

For what you're doing, Total Seal rings make no sense to me.
If I understand correctly what your objective is for this build, a fresh hone and new stock rings are what you want.
Mine got a good machine shop hone to round out the bores and new stock rings. I don't remember the numbers, but I'm running substantially more PTW clearance than stock range, but all is good and I can't hear a thing
I've never disassembled/re-assembled a shortblock without a hone and re-ring; I don't know what would happen to your presently good ring seal if you do that.

bufmatmuslepants

iTrader: (3)

That's exactly what I want. If it wasnt for the leaking front cover seal i would have just done heads and cam, but since i need to fix the leak ive snowballed a bit already. I am going to have the block decked, the cranked checked for round, so it seems I'm best off getting a hone and new stock rings. Rockauto has Sealed Power rings 2.0/1.5/4.0mm for $111 #E530K, and DNJ Engine Components (who ive never heard of) 2.0/1.5/4.0mm for $48 #PR3142. Anyone have any experience with the DNJ rings? What gap do they need to be? I'm reading 0.004 for each inch, so 0.016.

97Z28SS

iTrader: (5)

Matt who's doing your machine work, I recomend Precision Engine Machine Co. ask for Jan tell him Dale sent you, he does great work and they're in Hyattsville, MD 301-779-5808.

bufmatmuslepants

iTrader: (3)

I've been talking to Ken from Ellison Machine Shop but am open to suggestions. I'm not really familiar with this area and don't have any ties to anyone.

cardo0

"I don't see how that can be right cardo...higher tensile strength will yield or stretch less as its torqued to a certain ft lb, therefore pulling the cap down slightly more causing an egg shape, same as rod bolts, whether you use main bolts or main studs, I could be wrong tho."

U are partly right as the bolts will have different stretch but that main cap wont get pulled down any further for the same applied torque. 55ft-lbs on stock main bolt = 55ft-lbs on a high tensile bolt = 55ft-lbs on a stud = 55ft-lbs on a TTY bolt. Yes all produce the same clamping force. The high tensile bolt pulls with the same 55ft-lbs as the stock bolt. U need to look at tensile stress vs length diagram for steel as both normal and high tensile strength bolts are used in the elastic region which stretches under load then returns to original length once load removed. Those bolts will yes, stretch differently, but the applied tensile force is the same for the same applied torque. TTY bolts were a development that operate in the plastic region that doesnt return to its original length and remains deformed but still provides the same clamping force as other bolts for the same torque. TTY advantage is longer fatigue life. Disadvantage is smaller bolt used for same torque and again this leaves more room in the cap bolt hole and more prone to cap walk. I believe u will have the opposite results from what u are looking for when using TTY bolts on the main caps. BTW where can u find TTY bolts for the mains? Who sells them? Are just shopping by bolt size?
U should google/research this for yourself - not looking at blogs and relying on hearsay. BTW the GEN II blocks use TTY only on the head bolts while the main caps use standard main bolts. Do u know how select the correct TTY bolt for your size and torque?

I dont know who mike is but just because someone has a fast car doesnt mean he has all the answers. Alignhoning not only increases your expenses but reduces the crank to cam distance which in turn loosens the stock timing set. Does he have a fix for that too? I didnt read one. Looser timing chain means less accurate timing which means less power. Do u want to spend more to make less power?

Im working 12s now and really dont have time for long discussions. U can believe what u want but if u take the time to research before u spend your $$$ u will have better results than listening to the blog clowns that run their mouth over the internet boasting hearsay BS at your expense.

cardo

bufmatmuslepants

iTrader: (3)

Yes 55ft lb is 55ft lb is 55ft lb but that's rotational force not clamping force. The clamping forces are different in a bolt with a higher tensile strength. I'm an ME too so don't think I'm just a schlub reading articles. Mike V (quik95lt1) posted a thread a while ago showing what happens to rod bearings on a car that just replaced rod bolts with arp bolts without a resize. The middles of the upper and lower bearings were scarred from the increased clamping force. I may not know exactly how the steel rod caps or iron block react with those forces so I listen and learn from people who actually have results of it.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...oing-come.html

Shownomercy

iTrader: (1)

Yea, what?

Pretty sure ARP stuff will have a different torque reading, and furthermore, a torque reading off a bolt is different than the same torque on a nut (stud).

Stud distributes no rotational force onto the block and allows for a very good strict vertical axis force. Highly reliability from better torque readings is a win in my book.

And how in the world can you just blanket statement that any bolt torqued down is good enough? A stock OEM bolt is IMO less trustworthy from a material standpoint than a reputable fastener company like ARP etc, and material wise a good ARP will be infinitely better at resisting stretch and fatigue than a one use TTY stock bolt.

But, I failed at teh collegez.

SS RRR

iTrader: (2)

Using different bolts than original you will need a line hone to ensure the journals are true, so might as well go with a stronger fastener.

bufmatmuslepants

iTrader: (3)

I'm just going to reuse the stock main bolts since they are not tty, to avoid the line gone, bowtienut is doing fine on his stock main bolts. I'm also going to hone the cylinders myself. Now my big debate is if its worth it to spend $125 to deck the block 0.010 and another $100 to mill the heads 0.010 to get to 12:1, or just do one of them and be at 11.5:1, that half a point of compression I don't think will be worth the extra $$ and I can't just do the block 0.020 or my quench would suck assuming the average deck height is 0.022, with an 0.026 gasket I'm at 0.028 instead of the 0.038 if I did one or both. I won't know until I take it apart and measure tho.

SS RRR

iTrader: (2)

In your position I'd have the heads milled before decking the block. Have the deck surface at least checked, or check it yourself since it's not difficult to ensure it's true.

bufmatmuslepants

iTrader: (3)

I owned the heads I just rebought and think I remember the deck being clean and fresh as they were just rebuilt, ill cc them and put a straight edge on them and that'll give me an idea if they have been milled already. I will do one or the other either the block or heads, but probably not both, my cam isn't that big to need huge compression. I don't think I can justify $100 for 5hp if its already straight, I'm at $1000 so far in this build for 100rwhp hopefully, $10/hp ain't bad at all.

97Z28SS

iTrader: (5)

I would spend that money getting my block hot tanked if it doesn't need to be decked. Are you going to turn/polish the crank?

bufmatmuslepants

iTrader: (3)

Yea I'm gonna get the crank polished ($55) not sure about hot tanking yet, but maybe depending on how much oil return mods and if I have to **** with metal shavings around the cam bearings, but probably a safe bet to have it done since I am honing it.

cardo0

Whatever, i see u are staying stock so that fits your original post "very basic rebuild". But at least you started sorting things out and are not decreasing your reliability/functionality.
Dont pass this opportunity to make good quench. U cant go back and undo this without another overhaul. Match your cam to your compression rather than making your compression to match your cam.

cardo