Notchy shifter after clutch replacement?
Notchy shifter after clutch replacement? Hey all,
Just wondering if anyone has experienced this issue... maybe its just my clutch breaking in since I have only 50 miles on it but it doesn't seem to be improving yet so far.
Anyway, I swapped my toasted Spec Stage 3 out for a Competition stage 3 over the weekend. Pedal feel and engagement is 10/10 and about a million times better than the spec but my shifter is "notchy" now. In other words the shift handle stops and holds for a second halfway through the shift. With my old spec three a 1-2, 2-3, etc was always one fluent motion of the handle with no resistance. I could speedshift the daylights out of it. Everything seems to work fine with the new clutch it just now feels like i have to make a dramatic pause between gears...which wont work too well for speed/power shifting. Anyone else running this clutch have this issue, or had it when new?
Just wondering if anyone has experienced this issue... maybe its just my clutch breaking in since I have only 50 miles on it but it doesn't seem to be improving yet so far.
Anyway, I swapped my toasted Spec Stage 3 out for a Competition stage 3 over the weekend. Pedal feel and engagement is 10/10 and about a million times better than the spec but my shifter is "notchy" now. In other words the shift handle stops and holds for a second halfway through the shift. With my old spec three a 1-2, 2-3, etc was always one fluent motion of the handle with no resistance. I could speedshift the daylights out of it. Everything seems to work fine with the new clutch it just now feels like i have to make a dramatic pause between gears...which wont work too well for speed/power shifting. Anyone else running this clutch have this issue, or had it when new?
I forgot to add that the clutch seems to be disengaging properly. It doesnt roll forward in gear with the clutch depressed, and it sounds like the input shaft comes to a stop when i depress the clutch in neutral, like it is supposed to.
I have the same feel on my 01 SS with stock clutch. I'm thinking about bleeding my master/slave in case I have gotten air in the lines or something. But mine engages/disengages properly as well. I do have Pro 5.0 shifter on mine as well.
Thats what some friends are telling me, that my car was the exception rather than the norm. My fear is that the new clutch disc is heavier than my Spec was...and the synchros are having to do more work to match the speed. Which means I should have stuck with the 6 puck style clutch...
Thats possible. I had a Spec Stage 3 in my Formula and I liked it. Havent really done much to the SS and the clutch isnt worn out so I havent had the need to upgrade it yet. I wish I could remember how my Formula was before I sold it in 05.
well if Amazon's weight measurements are at all dependable I think I can say I found the problem. Buyer beware, if you like fast shifting... go with a stage 5.
EDIT: BELOW IS CONFIRMED INACCURATE INFO
EDIT: BELOW IS CONFIRMED INACCURATE INFO
Last edited by JoeliusZ28; Sep 27, 2013 at 11:59 PM.
Staging Lane
Joined: May 2013
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From: Chicagoland
Amazon if full of BS, I can't believe that the full disc weighs 11 lbs more than the one with the pucks. If your hydraulics are good you might be on to something though with the increased inertia or maybe the thickness of the new disc requires more travel to completely disengage.
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Amazon if full of BS, I can't believe that the full disc weighs 11 lbs more than the one with the pucks. If your hydraulics are good you might be on to something though with the increased inertia or maybe the thickness of the new disc requires more travel to completely disengage.
Last edited by JoeliusZ28; Aug 29, 2013 at 07:41 AM.
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Possible the clutch is dragging. Jack the back wheels up, put car in gear with engine running and see if wheels spin with clutch engaged. If not, take engine up to 4K rpm or so and see. If the wheels spin while the clutch is engaged then it's making contact with the flywheel when it shouldn't.
Its a brand new perfection flywheel from advance auto. My old one was effed.
Thats a good suggestion, I'll try that!
Possible the clutch is dragging. Jack the back wheels up, put car in gear with engine running and see if wheels spin with clutch engaged. If not, take engine up to 4K rpm or so and see. If the wheels spin while the clutch is engaged then it's making contact with the flywheel when it shouldn't.
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your new clutch has more "meat on the bones" in terms of disc thickness. It may be draging slightly so the check SS RRR sugested will show if it is. Obviously it should not so if so find out why.
if it drags either hydraulics are weak or in need of bleeding.
or...
did you TQ PP bolts to 22 ft lbs...or more?
if it drags either hydraulics are weak or in need of bleeding.
or...
did you TQ PP bolts to 22 ft lbs...or more?
your new clutch has more "meat on the bones" in terms of disc thickness. It may be draging slightly so the check SS RRR sugested will show if it is. Obviously it should not so if so find out why.
if it drags either hydraulics are weak or in need of bleeding.
or...
did you TQ PP bolts to 22 ft lbs...or more?
if it drags either hydraulics are weak or in need of bleeding.
or...
did you TQ PP bolts to 22 ft lbs...or more?
Also I have about 125 miles on it now and it does seem like it has improved some. Its definitely still notchy, but its a more tolerable notchy. I'll do the jackstand test this weekend.
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when you jack up the rear with the car in gear/engine off have someone push the clutch pedal in all the way. you should be able to freely turn the rear wheels by hand
did you draw the transmission in the last 1" by tightening the tranny bolts or did you slide the tranny in flush to the BH?
did you draw the transmission in the last 1" by tightening the tranny bolts or did you slide the tranny in flush to the BH?
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sounds like the install was right, now you need to confirm if you have complete clutch release.
if not I would carefully inspect hydraulics for any signs of leaking. your new PP may be more pressure than the old worn one so now the hydraulics which "may" be in need of bleed or replace are not releaseing the clutch all the way causeing some drag
clutch bleed and new tranny fluid may resolve your issue
the plastic cup is still on the end of the slave, right?
if not I would carefully inspect hydraulics for any signs of leaking. your new PP may be more pressure than the old worn one so now the hydraulics which "may" be in need of bleed or replace are not releaseing the clutch all the way causeing some drag
clutch bleed and new tranny fluid may resolve your issue
the plastic cup is still on the end of the slave, right?
Well ive been busy but i finally had time today to do some tests. Put it up on the jack and tried it out. Doesnt seem to be any clutch drag whatsoever. 4K RPM with the clutch pushed in the tires didnt budge, and they didnt start moving until the pedal was a good inch or more from the floor. Also was able to spin the driveline by hand with the car turned off, in gear, clutch pedal depressed.
Also, my coworker was nice enough to let me drive his 95 formula today, which we are 90% certain still has the original clutch. It had some resistance to it, but not nearly as much as mine. I was able to shift that car noticeably quicker, even with a stock shifter, than my own setup. The shifting experience was closer to my old 6 puck than what i have now.
Is there anything else that could be wrong? Starting to just seem like this brass disc must be heavier than even a stock one. If thats the case, well then I guess it is no ones fault but my own for not doing enough research, I'll probably just have to bite the bullet and swap it to a stage 5 this winter. Its just not as fun to drive this way and i feel like my synchros are working overtime.
Edit: forgot to mention. I have at least 450 miles on the clutch now. ive gone full throttle/agressive with it twice. It put rubber down in every gear, i definitely couldnt be happier with the engagement all around. Even with the shifting issue it is still a good product for most people in my opinion.
Also, my coworker was nice enough to let me drive his 95 formula today, which we are 90% certain still has the original clutch. It had some resistance to it, but not nearly as much as mine. I was able to shift that car noticeably quicker, even with a stock shifter, than my own setup. The shifting experience was closer to my old 6 puck than what i have now.
Is there anything else that could be wrong? Starting to just seem like this brass disc must be heavier than even a stock one. If thats the case, well then I guess it is no ones fault but my own for not doing enough research, I'll probably just have to bite the bullet and swap it to a stage 5 this winter. Its just not as fun to drive this way and i feel like my synchros are working overtime.
Edit: forgot to mention. I have at least 450 miles on the clutch now. ive gone full throttle/agressive with it twice. It put rubber down in every gear, i definitely couldnt be happier with the engagement all around. Even with the shifting issue it is still a good product for most people in my opinion.
Last edited by JoeliusZ28; Sep 27, 2013 at 11:54 PM.
I had the same issue when I installed a Spec 3+. I could have sworn the clutch was dragging. Many tests and many times the trans came out last year. Makes me sick how many times I was under that car, yet everything I tried I couldn't find anything wrong. I had the clutch and flywheel sent back to Spec to have them look at it and they claimed there was nothing wrong. Put it back in and kept driving it. Figured if anything were to be dragging it would've messed up the trans by now, but it has been fine. It just seems to take a fraction of a second longer to put it into gear without resistance than before with a previous 3+ clutch. The disengagement is no different than the last clutch. Almost to the point of being stock. I think it just has something to do with the flywheel. Perhaps your experiencing the same thing. I think the only thing you can do now is just drive it. If there is no physical connection, as you found out, then everything should operate as normal.
Isnt the 3+ a full disc? What clutch did you have prior to that? That you are comparing to? I have found discussions on forums for other cars (besides fbodys) where weight of the clutch disc is considered very relevant to how fast the car will shift. A friend is telling me that brass is a denser metal than steel so theoretically this one very well could be heavier than even a stock clutch.
Edit: nevermind i see you answered that question. Were there different variations of the 3+ maybe?
Here is one thing i do know: my old setup was NOT meshing properly. The disc was clearly engaging first to one side of the flywheel, and probably eventually the whole thing as it became fully engaged, which is why it drove and chattered so bad. I could see that making it easy to shift if 3/4 of the disc wasnt even contacting the flywheel while disengaged before. But then again, why does a stock car still shift easier? There are many questions apparently.
This is my old flywheel after we attempted to mill it... Way out of spec
Edit: nevermind i see you answered that question. Were there different variations of the 3+ maybe?
Here is one thing i do know: my old setup was NOT meshing properly. The disc was clearly engaging first to one side of the flywheel, and probably eventually the whole thing as it became fully engaged, which is why it drove and chattered so bad. I could see that making it easy to shift if 3/4 of the disc wasnt even contacting the flywheel while disengaged before. But then again, why does a stock car still shift easier? There are many questions apparently.
This is my old flywheel after we attempted to mill it... Way out of spec
Last edited by JoeliusZ28; Sep 28, 2013 at 09:58 AM.